Needs to start with a list of the top 5 things you spent money on that were completely awesome and that your younger self didn't know about. The Concrete-Abstract writing pattern says to give the example first, then the generalization; currently you're missing the example part.
Here is an example which I discovered only recently and which for me is 10x the awesomeness of house cleaning.
I like to work on casual games as a hobby, I haven't released many but it's something I like to do. I am a software engineer and have no art skills. You can make a game with no art, or make a port of some game for which the art exists. It is limiting.
Enter the miracle of Elance. You can find good artists on that site, with experience making art and animations for games, and they're very affordable. I think they charge less per hour than house cleaners in California. All of a sudden getting real art for your game is just an ordinary hobby-related expense, kind of like if I were into photography I'd spend money on lenses and Photoshop license fees.
(My experience was mostly with graphics artists, but that site is general-purpose, you can find people willing to do all sorts of work there, translation, programming, whatever.)
In most jobs, it's hard to change the number of hours a week you work in order to earn more or less money.
It is worse than you imagine. Putting in heroic hours is pure signal. Fatigue will kill your actual productivity to below that of putting in a 40 hour week if you do it for more than 3 weeks at a time. This is especially true in programming as a tired programmer can very easily have outright negative output - it will take more than an hour to fix the errors committed during that extra hour you put in. Entire industries ignore this because it has become a social norm within them that going home after regular business hours is a sign of lacking commitment, and it takes a rare level of... Sanity and towering belief in your own judgement for the boss of a firm in these industries to go against that norm and evict stragglers from the office at closing time willy-nilly. I still recommend finding one if you possibly can. Or being one. The average programming shop is run abysmally badly - it should be fairly straight forward to prosper by following a handful of simple rules of productivity (Meetings at open and close of day, not noon, no all-nighters.. ect)
If you intend to engage in pure signalling to get ahead as an employee, find signals that dont waste 20-30 hours of your time per week.
are people expected to work extra hours for free in the US?
Depends on the kind of work you're doing. Under American labor law, workers in retail, manufacturing, or the trades can't be asked to work more than eight hours a day or forty hours a week without being paid their hourly wages plus a substantial overtime bonus. However, there's a loophole. American workers in clerical, administrative, and professional positions -- those on the administrative side of historical labor disputes, in other words -- are usually paid a fixed yearly income (salaried, or "exempt") and are not eligible for overtime pay.
This has both advantages and disadvantages. The advantage is that the hours are usually more flexible and there's less administrative overhead; the disadvantage is that people that want to signal loyalty or overachievement are incentivized to work crazy hours without extra pay, a practice that employers often encourage, or even -- though usually only in the short term -- de-facto require. Most studies I've read find that actual productivity doesn't go up much with the extra hours in the long run, especially for knowledge workers, but it occasionally does make busine...
So for example, by this standard the biggest cost of college for many people will be not tuition, but the time they spent in college that could've been spent working.
Not disagreeing with anything in the post, and I acknowledge that this logic makes sense if you're primarily measuring things in money, but I'd just like to note that this example is likely to come off as weird to the kind of people who like to study but who are unsure of whether there's any job that they'd enjoy. For them, having a socially-sanctioned opportunity to spend several years not working isn't a cost, it's the whole point of going to college.
I spent most of my life up until 2012 loathing the concept of needing/wanting/working for money, and being particularly annoyed when people bugging me about schoolwork would talk about the potential for losing scholarships and employment and all that mess.
I wasn't off campus and doing an online course for two months before I realized how mind-bogglingly stupid I'd been. Well, a fraction of how stupid, anyway; the full extent of it didn't set in until I discovered that my student loan payments were $226 more than I was receiving in SSI. Unfortunately, I think it's safe to consider the majority of my posting on LW to be a prolonged "Oh Shiiiiiiit" at this realization. (A little of this started to set in during 2011, but on a much narrower domain that would needlessly bloat this comment to explain.)
TL;DR: I agree with the article.
Counterpoint: spending 40 hours a week on your job is a huge time commitment. It's also a huge willpower drain (doing worthwhile things requires effort to grind out results, not just time). It's hard for me to believe that the hours money allows you to "buy back" are worth the "wasted hours" on work. So it's important that work not be a waste.
Also, you will probably make more money and do more worthwhile things at a job you enjoy.
Money is definitely a big factor, but I don't think it totally dominates everything else.
I've got a couple things to say here.
Most of us really are income satisficers, not income optimizers. That is, if you offered me a $350k/year salary to do my current job (grad-student), I would end up distributing most of that money to charity. Not that charity isn't great, but you could have just given the money to charity yourself instead of taking the wasteful intermediate step of paying me.
Why is this true? Because we train ourselves to make it true: frugality is a large component of financial responsibility. For instance, I'm so used to living at a grad-student's standard of living that money above and beyond the cost of that standard of living is pure luxury: I spend it on frivolous bullshit or put it in my retirement account. I'm fairly sure I'm the only 24-year-old grad-student with a Roth IRA topped-up for 2012-2014, and this is because when I got extra money, it went into the retirement account rather than towards consumption, or even towards extra charity.
HOWEVER (yes, the capital letters are justified there), there is an IMMENSE component of class privilege in this whole subject. I am literally the only person I know with this much money at my age who isn't workin...
When you say we need to exercise our intelligence, let me talk about Franklin Barbecue in Austin. It's quite possibly the best barbecue in the US, and they've sold out of brisket every day that they've been open. Officially, it opens at 11 AM, but generally people recommend that you show up at ~8 AM to wait in line. To the economist in me, this is a terrible setup. They could spend their customers' extra money; they can't spend their customers' wasted time. They should auction off the barbecue, which will raise prices and lower wait times.
The marketer in me suggests you're off the mark. How do you know that Franklin's bbq is the best in Austin? Because there is always a line and it sells out. The wait in line IS what differentiates their product, and its how people judge the quality in such a subjective market.
I imagine if you start an auction for the bbq, what you'll find is that in a few years you are making less money, as instead of being a good bbq experience that people drive in from all over Texas to try and tourists flock to, you'll be just another good bbq place in Austin.
Sure. But consider airlines, and the revenue management they do, as a contrast.
The basic problem is that there is no single price-per-seat at which it is profitable to fly a plane. Imagine the demand curve as something like $1000/x, where x is the number of tickets sold on the plane. Regardless of the price you pick, your total revenue is going to be $1000, and if the plane costs $2000 to fly, you can't pick a single price for every ticket such that the plane is profitable to fly.
But suppose you could offer different customers different prices. The person willing to pay $1000 is charged $1000; the person willing to pay $500 is charged $500, the person willing to pay $333 is charged $333, and the person willing to pay $250 is charged $250. Now you've got a plane in the air, and $83 in profit (and another person paying $200 would get you up to $283 in profit). But this required you knowing which customer was willing to pay what, which is generally done by time-segregation (the amount of time you book the flight in advance, combined with the number of seats left on the plane) which is itself determined by sophisticated modeling.
There doesn't seem to be a public outcry about revenue ma...
For example, you could start giving poor people free programming lessons.
I've seen this suggestion elsewhere. I'm all in favor of it, but it kind of bugs me anyway. The assumption is that most people can learn to program (or do other forms of IT) if taught. I don't think that's the case. Programming well is hard. IT pays reasonably well because good IT people are hard to come by, and I don't think lack of access to training or facilities is the reason. Certainly not since OSS became widespread.
Any widespread solution to poverty has to work for people that don't have hacker-natures or Mensa-class IQs.
On the topic of house cleaning, I think that a lot of people (including myself) just really don't want to see strangers in their homes. If rich people generally don't have problems with that means there are some psychological differences. When reading historical fiction the fact that even middle-class families had servants looks really weird.
The same psychological processes that make you not want to see strangers in your house might also make you uneasy about having strangers in your house when you aren't even there to see what they're doing. (Anecdata: I would feel a bit creeped-out about either, and a bit kinda-rationally worried that they might steal things etc. Both worries would be worse in the case where the stranger is in the house and I'm not.)
... The point of picking a job you somewhat enjoy is very simple. If you do not, getting any good at your job will require colossal amounts of willpower. And it is pretty unlikely you will ever get "big-bux" awesome at it. Therefore, choosing careers solely on the basis of the money is every bit as stupid as common wisdom holds. The top two most likely outcomes of doing so are;
1:You turn into someone who enjoys that job and the pursuit of wealth as end goals in themselves no matter how horrifying that person is to your present self.
2: You are, in fact, not really that good at your job. And don't get the big bucks.
Not saying you should ignore the money - Money really does matter. Just that it is a bit of a false choice - consider the money, yes, but also, consider if the day to day is something you can engage with.
Finance is a cancer ... and is strangling and poisoning everything.
That looks to be way too much emotion and not enough reason.
when the world comes to its senses and regulates that sector with fire
Are you making a prediction, by any chance? If you believe it, you can bet on it -- will make you very rich if it were to happen...
The big banking houses did not rise through efforts of people with "mediocre intellects [and] high conscientiousness scores".
Mediocre compared to whom? Certainly, from what I've heard, the skills necessary for banking are, in this order:
With the general level of intellect being roughly "can pass freshman calculus but not necessarily an entire engineering degree." Certainly bankers aren't stupid, but if you compare their job to what's necessary in science, medicine, professional engineering, or law, I do think they're the "dumb jocks" of the smart crowd.
Not disagreeing, but an awful lot of people with a lot of money seem incredibly bad at spending it on anything they care about; often it seems like most of it goes on positional goods. I'm with Jarvis Cocker here.
Chris, I appreciate your zeal and the argument you've formed given the information you have. You have correctly pointed out a fundamental logic flaw with the "get a job you love" mentality, and your alternative is certainly worthy of consideration.
As rational agents, we should be inclined to pick a model which is more robust to empirical data (given the same degrees of freedom). From your post I infer that you are not an economist, so you might be unfamiliar with the "Easterlin Paradox," which shows that indeed wealthier people within ...
there are two ways to maximize the amount of time you spend doing things you enjoy: find a job you mostly enjoy, or else find a high paying job you hate and work part-time / take frequent long sabbaticals / work hard when you're young, then retire early.
I'd keep in mind the possibility here that by working at a high paying job you don't enjoy and then retiring early, you reward yourself with the opportunity to do things you enjoy when you're not only old enough to have lost a lot of opportunities, but possibly significantly embittered by an unhappy care...
It turns out that it's not clear this is actually true—some studies have found more money leads to greater happiness up through the highest income levels examined.
The "highest income levels examined" -- based on the chart on that page -- appear to be 128k/yr. Since the income satisficing level (for an unattached individual) is ~75k, this doesn't seem like good evidence one way or another.
Attention conservation notice: the comment below is not substantive at all.
For the pedants, to say something is an exception that proves the rule is to say that when you look at the exceptions, they're so unusual that it reinforces the point that the rule is generally valid even though it isn't universally valid.
Actually, for the real pedants, to say something is an exception that proves the rule is to say that an explicit written exception to an implicit rule is evidence that the implicit rule exists, e.g., a sign that says "Parking prohibited o...
I find it a fun game trying to think of things that money can't buy (but that it is possible for people to get in other ways). It's difficult to think of a lot of answers, especially allowing for strategies like hiring someone to train you to become the kind of person who gets x. The best answer I've been able to come up with is specific anything, such as the friendship of a specific person.
Not very related, but something bizarre I realized my brain assumed existed but on reflection seems rather bizarre to have arisen unprompted might not at all so I'm wondering if it does: A class of people who'd find it well worth the money-time transaction on paper, but have some combination of non-enormous houses and sensitive stuff in it that'd mean instructing someone to be able to clean without causing more damage than they fix and puting everything in places where you wont find it etc. would take longer than just doing it yourself.
Trying to channel Marcuse from memory, here goes: We have a finite need for money. We need it for is adequate food and shelter. But unsatisfied emotional needs can be effectively unbounded. It's possible for the culture to convert the things that money can buy into something that we seek because of unsatisfied emotional needs. From hence flows the unbounded need for money.
Marcuse would substitute "capitalist" for "culture". But perhaps it's just something about human nature. Perhaps it's the dopamine system in our brains. Not sure why it works this way (assuming it does indeed work this way).
You make a few different points, and I've tried operationalizing two of them.
Time is expensive:
when considering a job, estimate how much time you'll be able to take off from it and when you'll be able to retire, and what you'll do with that time
do this estimation for a lot of jobs, even those that don't seem appealing, to find the opportunity cost of the ones that do seem appealing
I don't mean I've actually done these, not yet anyway. I just read the article.
Another point was, comparative advantage:
Observe time usage and look up costs to hire peop
For the pedants, to say something is an exception that proves the rule is to say that when you look at the exceptions, they're so unusual that it reinforces the point that the rule is generally valid even though it isn't universally valid.
That is not what "exception that proves the rule" means. If you're going to invoke the name of pedants, after all, you should be properly pedantic, no? ;)
I agree a lot with this article but I think it's not a reply to all definitions of the argument; 'there are some things money can't buy'. I'll start by saying what I agree with. Money does buy things. Having more money makes things easier/possible. Time is money and opportunities not taken are lost money. From that angle I fully agree.
But even still, money can't buy everything. I read just moments ago a good quote which said something to the effect of; someone might say they have an apparent end goal of making lots of money but if asked what they would do...
I think this post is wrong and dangerous, but I like it a lot and I think you're bold to post it. Hopefully it will help more than it harms.
There are some things money can't buy. They are the exceptions that prove the rule.
For the pedants, to say something is an exception that proves the rule is to say that when you look at the exceptions, they're so unusual that it reinforces the point that the rule is generally valid even though it isn't universally valid. In the case of money, there's a reason people don't say things like "there are some things hand-knit scarves can't be bartered for" or "Hand-knit scarves can't be bartered for happiness."
Eliezer once described the sequences as the letter he wishes he could have written to his former self. When I think of the letter I wish I could write to my former self, the value of money is at the top of the list of things I'd include.
You can give a cynical, Hansonian explanation of why we don't tell young people enough about the awesomeness of money, and I suppose there'd be some truth to it. But I'm not sure that was my main problem. Growing up, my dad spent a lot of time urging me to go into a high-paying career, to the point giving me advice on what medical specialty to go into. He just didn't do a great job of selling me on it. It wasn't until I learned some economics that I really came to understand why money is so awesome.
(Disclaimer: I don't actually know that much economics, and in fact have never taken an economics course. I just know more than my former self.)
The first thing to understand about money is that the range of things you can get for it is really incredibly huge. Econ bloggers Tyler Cowen and Alex Tabarrok periodically do posts called "markets in everything" where they highlight some of the weirder examples of this, but the weird examples matter less than the obvious examples people just don't think about much. There's a tendency to associate money with a narrow range of things rich people stereotypically spend their money on. Or, in my case growing up in an upper middle-class family, there were the family vacations and boats that my dad seemed to mainly spend his money on, which were nice but didn't seem particularly worth planning my career around.
Yet not only is the range of things you can get with money huge, even with things you can get without money, spending money on them is often a better way of acquiring them. The reason for this is comparative advantage, a concept that gets discussed a lot in the context of nation-states and why free trade is a good idea, but which also works on an individual level. For example, say you're a lawyer who makes $300 an hour, and you're trying to solve the problem of how to keep your house clean. You could spend a couple hours a week doing it yourself—or you could work slightly longer hours and hire someone else to do it for $30 an hour.
The reason this is an example of comparative advantage is it doesn't matter if the people you're paying to clean your house are any better at house-cleaning than you. In fact, it works even if they're slightly worse, as long as the difference in house-cleaning ability is overshadowed by the difference in lawyering ability. In econ jargon, you can have an absolute advantage at both lawyering and house-cleaning, and it will still make sense to pay other people to clean your house if they have a comparative advantage there. Many people who aren't rich probably assume that when rich people hire other people to do basic tasks for them, it's a frivolous expense, but under the right circumstances it can a matter of economic efficiency.
This point about comparative advantage, when applied to charity, is one of the central insights of the effective altruism movement ("earning to give"). Suppose instead of talking about a lawyer who wants to keep his house clean, we're instead talking about a lawyer who wants to help the local soup kitchen. He could volunteer to help out there in his spare time, but he could also work a little longer hours, donate the money, and enable the soup kitchen to hire more person-hours of work there. Choosing to volunteer rather than give would suggest the lawyer isn't mainly concerned about helping the soup kitchen, but perhaps with warm fuzzies or being seen doing good.
And this doesn't just to small-scale decisions about donating some money vs. volunteering a few hours. It also applies to someone trying to decide between, saying, going into a career in medicine and eventually joining Doctors Without Borders vs. going into a career in finance and using the money you make to pay people to distribute bed nets to stricken regions of the world. (That person was me when I was younger, except the second option wasn't even on my radar.)
Note that while I personally think earning to give is an especially important example of how you can exploit comparative advantage to achieve you're goals, it's also worth emphasizing that it's just a special case of a general principle which can be extremely powerful even if you don't care about making the world a better place.
Given all this, what of the saying "if you want something done right do it yourself"? The answer is that, yes, the difficulty of figuring out who's competent and trustworthy does impose transaction costs on hiring people to do stuff for you, but it's important to remember the costs are finite. When the difference in comparative advantage is large enough, they'll often be worth paying.
Now there are still things money can't buy, at least not literally. But money tends to make them easier to acquire. Take the classic example of happiness: there's a traditional idea (which I've heard attributed to the Greek philosopher Epicurus, though I can't find the source now) that more money makes you happier up to a certain point since it's hard to be happy if you're starving, but beyond that more money doesn't help. It turns out that it's not clear this is actually true—some studies have found more money leads to greater happiness up through the highest income levels examined.
But suppose, in spite of this, that you're an income satisficer, meaning you want to make a certain amount of money and don't care about additional money beyond that. Suppose as long as you have that certain amount of money, you care more about being able to do what you love. And suppose you don't care about being able to make the world a better place through donating to charity. Should you then pursue whatever career you think you'll enjoy the most out of those that pay enough money?
Not necessarily. The way to think about this is to realize that time spent is, in an important sense, an expensive luxury. In economics, there's a concept called opportunity cost, which is closely related to comparative advantage. Opportunity cost asks: by choosing to do something, what's the next-best alternative you're giving up? So for example, by this standard the biggest cost of college for many people will be not tuition, but the time they spent in college that could've been spent working. Even if you didn't go to summer classes, didn't study all that much, and were only qualified for minimum wage jobs, it still easily adds up to more than the cost of a state school in the US.
A lot of things turn out to be like this: when you translate the cost in time into a monetary value, time is the biggest component of the cost. Once you start thinking in those terms, it becomes easier to see that just as there are two ways to convert time into a clean house (clean it yourself, or work at a job where you have the comparative advantage and pay someone else to clean it), there are two ways to maximize the amount of time you spend doing things you enjoy: find a job you mostly enjoy, or else find a high paying job you hate and work part-time / take frequent long sabbaticals / work hard when you're young, then retire early.
People tend not to even consider the second set of options because they've been sold a model of "work nine to five for fifty weeks a year from college graduation until you qualify for Social Security," and you are nudged towards that model somewhat by employers assuming it. But it's not mandatory, and if you acquire in-demands skills that can translate into greater flexibility. I have a friend who's a dev consultant who recently took a month sabbatical from her job and then quit entirely without having another one lined up because (1) she makes enough money she doesn't need to work year-round and (2) her skills are sufficiently in-demand that she's not worried about her ability to get another job when she wants one.
On the flip side, to understand one of the main problems with the "get a job you love" strategy, consider the extreme case: a job you'd do for free. The problem with such jobs is that they tend to be jobs other people are willing to do them for free too. That makes it hard for anyone to get paid. For example, I love writing, and I'm doing it for free right now. But it turns out lots of other people feel the same way, and the internet has made it really easy for all of us to distribute our writing for free, and now it's even harder to get paid as a writer than it was during the age of print.
This is just one example, but I suspect there's a systematic reason why the "get a job you love" strategy tends to produce outcomes you didn't really want: it can make it harder to see what tradeoffs you're really making between money and time spent doing things you want to do for their own sake. In the worst case, you end up getting the worst of both worlds: you become a college professor because you think it will pay okay (if not great), and you'll get to devote all your time to the life of the mind. But you end up adjuncting for what's effectively minimum wage while spending most of your time dealing with undergrads who are just taking the course for the elective and only care about getting an A with as little effort as possible.
I'm not saying everyone should optimize solely for money in choosing their career. But at the very least, it's worth putting considerable effort into finding out how much you could (perhaps not immediately, but after but in a year or several) if you did optimize for money. That way, you'll at least know the tradeoff you're making when you chose a different career.
And by the way, if you're reading LessWrong, odds are you're fairly smart, and may be underestimating how monetizable your intelligence is. I'd like to repeat the advice given by other people in the online rationalist community to look into programming as a career choice. I'm currently doing App Academy and highly recommend it, if you do apply tell them I sent you. You may also be able to get good information on choosing a career from 80,000 Hours.