That was also how Goering killed himself just before he was due to be hanged. He cultivated good relations with his guards, and bribed one to return his cyanide capsule that had been confiscated at his arrest.
I've really enjoyed this and the previous post, not because I give a shit about what happened to Epstein, but because you're walking us through your reasoning process step by step and I love to see that. Good posts for LW!
Really enjoyed this post, and think this is the most plausible hypothesis I’ve heard so far. Wouldn’t be shocked if it turned out to be something else of course, but I think this is a really solid best guess given the limited data we have available.
The FBI may not have much of a record of outside corruption, but it has a long track record of corruption by the government, mainly coverups of anything and everything, but also corruption by the CIA.
How on earth do these cameras specifically along his cell go out at the same time as Epstein is hanging himself?
Did they go out recently? Has anyone claimed that they were working the week before? A simple hypothesis is that only half of the cameras in the building work at any given time. This hypothesis is easy to check: just go through all the cameras. Has the FBI done that? Do they want to know? Do they want us to know? It would be harder to determine if the guards never check prisoners and always falsify records, but it might be possible to check by reviewing camera footage.
The FBI may not have much of a record of outside corruption, but it has a long track record of corruption by the government, mainly coverups of anything and everything, but also corruption by the CIA.
The "last 50 years" qualifier is important. I basically separate the FBI into two eras: The pre- and post-Hoover era. J. Edgar Hoover was definitely compromised, including, in my and many others opinions, externally by the mafia.
I don't see how this is any way relevant to my comment. I didn't say anything about the mafia 50 years ago. I seems to me like it exists for purely formal reasons, to produce the deceit that you have responded to my comment.
But let me word my comment differently: the FBI is never corrupted. The problem is that its purpose is to control and destroy information. It is at war with humanity, including the American public. You can see this just by looking at its behavior in this case.
I don't see how this is any way relevant to my comment.
It's relevant to your comment because the severe "internal" abuses of power you're referring to happened during J. Edgar Hoover's 50-year stint as a political supervillain. If you have later examples I haven't heard of them.
The problem is that its purpose is to control and destroy information. It is at war with humanity, including the American public.
Very edgy, but my opinion remains that life for me and many other people I know would be a lot harder without some form of federal law enforcement, even if it were abusive.
Saying that Hoover was externally compromised would be a ridiculous response to someone saying that he was internally compromised. But I wasn't talking about Hoover, because I bothered to read you before responding.
I'm confused on what exactly we're talking about anymore. The point about external compromise was just something I tagged on in response to
The FBI may not have much of a record of outside corruption
The original point I was attempting to convey was that the
long track record of corruption by the government, mainly coverups of anything and everything, but also corruption by the CIA.
occured under Hoover and I'm generally unaware of any large scale abuses of power by the FBI after his death. If you have some counterexamples or countersuspicions I am genuinely interested in hearing about them.
I guess this is the new "Oswald acted alone": Epstein killed himself, he wasn't encouraged or physically assisted by anyone else, and it was him, not any of his powerful frenemies, who arranged to have his cellmate (now dead) removed for the night, the guards violate procedure and then lie about it, and the video cameras turned off.
Seriously, look at the chain of command. He was in a US federal prison. US federal prisons are run by a branch of the Department of Justice. The head of the Department of Justice was William Barr, whose father was a retired OSS agent who gave Epstein his first job. Barr was sworn in early in 2019, just five months later Epstein was finally incarcerated awaiting trial, and another month later he was dead. He had long since moved from asset to liability, and his real bosses finally retired him - that's my theory.
Seriously, look at the chain of command. He was in a US federal prison. US federal prisons are run by a branch of the Department of Justice. The head of the Department of Justice was William Barr, whose father was a retired OSS agent who gave Epstein his first job.
By this logic anybody important who dies in prison is murdered, because there's always going to be some seven degrees to Kevin Bacon connection between powerful people and someone in the US federal government nominally in charge of either the prison or the DoJ. This is something we can predict, in advance, without learning anything else about the case except the parties involved. And also according to this logic we should assume this connection means murder even if, in practice, the gears say they can't effectively unilaterally affect the investigation.
But hey, there's always the 10% ¯\(ツ)/¯
Shall we talk further about Barr? His father was OSS, and thereby was plausibly the man who ushered Epstein into the covert world. Barr's own first job was for seven years at the CIA, it's where he first got into law and politics. As Attorney-General for Bush 41, he's said to have impeded investigation of BCCI, and he definitely made the case for pardoning several Iran-Contra figures. After the cold war, he settled into civilian life in the telecom and media sectors for several decades, until Trump brought him back.
The whole first stage of Barr's career coincided with the establishment of a new system of political oversight of CIA activities, and then the growth of an alternative, informal, unsupervised network whose epitome was Iran-Contra. (Today's generation might think of it all as similar to the post-Snowden turmoil surrounding NSA, though many details are very different.)
My point is that Barr has inside experience, managing the legal fallout of extralegal covert activities with discretion. Of course, it's a long way from getting rogue operators a presidential pardon, to having the ultimate rogue operator die in jail before he can make it to court, but those long years were precisely the period of time during which Epstein's operation ballooned out of control. Perhaps it required the chaos of the Trump years, and the work of old hands like Barr, to finally bring him down.
Sorry, this post ignores too many obviously relevant factors to be very convincing.
It makes arguments based on how it would not make sense for someone to take the risk to eliminate Epstein because they would go to jail for murder IF CAUGHT, but the fundamental thing going on with Epstein is people, even well-connected billionaires, are fully willing to do things that will send to prison IF CAUGHT because they believe (for good reason) that they will not be caught, and if caught will not be punished to the full extent of the law. So you're already dealing with a set of people who are willing to risk going to jail to get what they want, and willing to pay other people to take on that risk to help them.
There's also no mention of Trump or Clinton, two people that Epstein might obviously be tempted to implicate who have both direct and indirect power over the CIA and other US government agencies and who we know have few to no moral qualms about having people killed. These are also the exact people who would be in position to subvert the Attorney General or anyone else looking at the evidence.
If Epstein still has enough access to money to bribe people to let him kill himself, he has enough money to bribe people to let him live a life of luxury in jail, or to fully stage an escape, perhaps by bribing them to let him stay in a minimum security prison, where there are frequent escapes (https://apnews.com/article/government-and-politics-prisons-prison-breaks-business-c1979d6ad6e7b3531968dab0e61eb22d)
The last time he was arrested, he subverted a ton of people to the extent that he got a relatively low level of punishment that let him spend 12 hours a day doing whatever he wanted outside of prison, zero consequences for breaking the rules (eg flying to other cities when he was supposed to stay in florida on his "work release"), and even with that he still get let out early.
In addition, the fundamental premise of the Epstein story is that dozens if not hundreds of wealthy and well-connected people have in fact been "subverted" for years into covering up or at least not making a fuss about frequent underaged sex and rape.
You can credibly claim that Epstein currently had no plans of talking, but like you said he had turned against a past co-conspirator, so you can't credibly claim that no one who was at risk if he talked might not believe that it was a better deal to eliminate him than to worry for the next 20 years.
It makes arguments based on how it would not make sense for someone to take the risk to eliminate Epstein because they would go to jail for murder IF CAUGHT
And that they would be caught
There's also no mention of Trump or Clinton, two people that Epstein might obviously be tempted to implicate who have both direct and indirect power over the CIA and other US government agencies
They would not have relevant control over the people who investigated Epstein's death or an ability tot amper with he evidence I have presented or the ability to command risk-free any parties that might be able to murder Epstein.
he has enough money to bribe people to let him live a life of luxury in jail
This is not how prisons work.
or to fully stage an escape, perhaps by bribing them to let him stay in a minimum security prison, where there are frequent escapes
Also not how prisons or prison assingment works.
Being able to bribe someone is not about having "enough money" to do it. It has to be feasible as a financial transaction. You can have a billion dollars to bribe the president with and if I can't get it to him or propose a bribery to him without being charged with bribery and the government forcing the money to be destroyed then it doesn't work.
he subverted a ton of people to the extent that he got a relatively low level of punishment that let him spend 12 hours a day doing whatever he wanted outside of prison, zero consequences for breaking the rules (eg flying to other cities when he was supposed to stay in florida on his "work release"), and even with that he still get let out early.
Read the original post! Fully explained by my hypothesis that he was a CIA agent.
In addition, the fundamental premise of the Epstein story is that dozens if not hundreds of wealthy and well-connected people have in fact been "subverted" for years into covering up or at least not making a fuss about frequent underaged sex and rape.
Are you actually, explicitly saying that hundreds of wealthy and well-connected people have been subverted into covering up underaged sex and rape, and not just referencing a story that they were? Why? Who? Why haven't they been implicated by Epstein's many victims?
Yeah, the version I liked was that someone else bribed a guard/guards into letting him kill himself but that's basically the same.
I don't see if this is addressed, but the way mutual kompramat works is that both parties are strongly incentivized to neutralize the other's kompramat on them, and only then move in for the kill. The random timing of his arrest in the conspiracy scenario is that it's when they happened to neutralize his dead man's switch.
The timing of his rearrest on the 2008 charges wasn't particularly random if you followed the case. If it involved the sudden reappearance of new evidence or something like that I'd probably have said otherwise.
You discuss "compromised agents" of the FBI as if they're going to be lone, investigator-level agents. If there was going to be any FBI/CIA/whatever cover-up, the version of that which I would expect, is that Epstein would've had incriminating information on senior FBI/CIA personnel, or politicians. Incriminating information could just be that the FBI/CIA knew that Epstein was raping underage girls for 20 years, and didn't stop him, or even protected him. In all your explanations of how impossible a crime Epstein's murder would be to pull off, a thing that makes it seem more plausible to me is if the initial conspirator isn't just someone trying to wave money around, but is someone with authority.
Go ahead and mock, but this is what I thought the default assumption was whenever someone said "Epstein didn't kill himself" or "John McAfee didn't kill himself". I never assumed it would just be one or two lone, corrupt agents.
lc, I want to add some additional nuance to the events surrounding the dates of Epstein's death, August 10th 2019. Given how involved he was in the shadow banking arm of Lehman there's been some speculation on his role in the '08 crisis - the first warning shot happened to be August 9-10th, 2007. I do not believe his deathdate is insignificant - if this was part of a plan to spite his victims, as you say, those could be financial, too, no? In planned suicides dates are extraordinarily important.
One other bit of data that I find curious - it was but a day after this court case motioned for discovery from the US Treasury that Epstein had his will drawn up.
If we agree that Epstein killed himself, who convinced him to do it, and how?
By analogy with suicide bombers, Kamikazes, hijackers, depressed folks, depressed folks on risky drugs, bullied depressed folks, it seems like there is a continuum distribution of responsibility from self to others.
A trivial conclusion is that the criminal justice system edged him toward suicide, but a variety of covert threats and/or loyalties could also have been in play.
Around seven months ago I wrote the post "a non-magical explanation of Jeffrey Epstein". In it, I make the argument that Jeffrey Epstein did actually kill himself and that he was a CIA agent. I reach that conclusion mostly by drawing on some Conspiracy Theory and doing some light research.
I am mostly satisfied with my reasoning, and in particular my conclusion that Epstein was a high level informant for American intelligence services. However, over time I became less satisfied with my conclusion about Epstein's death. The paradox of the Epstein case is that the circumstances of his death seem so organized, and yet succeeding investigative details and a nuanced understanding of the parties involved seem to completely rule out foul play. It's quite literally a locked room murder story.
Problems with the murder hypothesis
Impracticality, lack of forensic evidence, lack of witnesses
Multiple reviewers of footage from that night, including the Attorney General at the time, claimed related cameras around Epstein's cell showed no one exiting or entering the block he was in. I am satisfied in the assumption that not all of the parties who verified this made a mistake or are secretly controlled by some puppet-master behind the scenes. This means Epstein would have to be killed by someone in his housing block who escaped their cell during the night, broke into Epstein's cell without any witnesses, and then strangled him to death without leaving any obvious and unmistakable evidence of a struggle for the coroner, and this seems totally implausible. Epstein didn't yell as his neighboring inmate sat there picking the lock? Get blood and skin under his fingernails? Do literally anything while this degenerate ninja-inmate tied his bedsheets around his neck? None of the other inmates thought to mention this if that's what happened, even after it was clear there was a coverup and they might be able to swing immunity out of it?
Epstein's will & foreknowledge of his death
Epstein clearly knew when he was going to die, because he drafted and signed a will just two days before he did. You can make up murder stories where he knows this, but Epstein seems like the type of person to cause maximum damage to his killers by explicitly telling others who he believed was going to off him and why.
Lack of viable suspects
I don't think Epstein's sex abuse victims have accused anyone with either the motive or means to organize a high-security jailhouse murder, regardless of the particular circumstances. This pretty much leaves the CIA, or some random unknown third party that wanted him dead for something maybe unrelated to raping children.
No in-progress plea bargain at Epstein's time of death
If Epstein still had incriminating information on other people he thought he could leverage for a better sentence, he would have been using it, and he would have been completely safe.
Low likelihood of FBI Corruption
Finally, as people pointed out in the comments of the post, I do in fact have a strong prior that the parties that investigated Epstein's death, namely the FBI, are and were generally habitually honest in the relevant sense. Explaining the whole story behind why I believe this, even in spite of the circumstances, would take several posts to convey sufficiently for those that don't want to hear it, but the cliff-notes are:
Problems with the naive suicide hypothesis
The third option
So my opinions of both hypotheses were fairly low. I settled this by saying that the murder hypothesis is stupider than the naive suicide hypothesis, and went the latter. The justification in my head was something like: "The fact that this case was brought to my attention meant that it was a low-probability event anyways, and so it's not really that odd that it's so strange."
I think that was a mistake, possibly a generalizable mistake to learn from. Instead of saying "I am really not sure what happened, but X is more likely than Y", I picked one and forgot or didn't realize there could be alternative explanations. If both of your theories seem like million-to-one events, they're probably both wrong and you're making a mistake in concluding they're the only available options. I have now come up with a third hypothesis, which I guess you could say is technically covered by #2:
Epstein paid correctional officers to let him die. The cameras weren't working and/or the guards failed to check on him that night, because Epstein explicitly bribed someone(s) to disable those cameras and/or look the other way. The base rate of suicide in the MCC correctional facility is low because generally its precautions work to prevent suicide attempts.
Epstein took deliberate action to ensure they didn't. He did so partly to save himself a life in prison, but also as part of a plan to spite his victims. His suicide denied them both the satisfaction of a trial and complicated access to any resources which his will would pour into an inaccessible private trust. That will, by the way, seemed deliberately designed to most observers to minimize the government's ability to access his fortune or get him to pay restitution in the event of his death.
I know this seems like the kind of wild theory you say you believe in an essay because it's thought provoking. This is what I actually believe; it's my 85% hypothesis. It's the only story that makes sense; it explains Epstein's behavior, the incidentally poor security, why there was nobody going in or out of the housing blocks and no evidence of a struggle, and doesn't propose some wide ranging conspiracy across multiple government departments that we would already probably know about. It's the only way he could be expected to kill himself inside that prison in the first place if he did. It also explains why this plot wasn't uncovered: because there are like, three people that would have to know about it, not even including Epstein's lawyers. Epstein could have just made up a sob-story and convinced a correctional officer to look the other way himself, or promised the officer his lawyers would pay them after the fact, and then didn't, because arranging that would be more complicated and time consuming.
And I'll admit, even to the hit of my own credibility, that I love this theory because it's so... Anticlimactic? Left-field? No one wants to believe this story, except pedantic weirdos like me. It's so satisfyingly unsatisfying. You don't figure this out by imbuing some grand intentionality to the story or thematic significance to the people involved. You get it by following all the billiard balls really closely and paying attention to all of the uninteresting details and seeing what incidental property emerges. And once you're done you're usually left without some obvious message because these people aren't living their lives deliberately trying to convey some grand story about corruption. Those lessons are there, but they're not there as part of a curriculum designed to teach them to you.