All of AlanCrowe's Comments + Replies

AlanCrowe4-1

My take on the conflict theory analysis is that the reserve army of brutal thugs is a valuable resource for avant-garde revolutionaries. Think 1917 Russian revolution. Its was a close run thing with a brutal civil war. Typically the avant-garde don't have the numbers. They may win power, but not have the numbers to hold on to it. They need to put boots on the necks of counter-revolutionaries. Since their tests for counter-revolutionariness have too many false negatives, they have to go large and put boots on the necks of the general population. Where do th... (read more)

You are over-simplifying Bayesian reasoning. Giving partial credence to propositions doesn't work; numerical values representing partial credence must be attached to the basic conjunctions. 

For example, if the propositions are A, B, and C, the idea for coping with incomplete information that every-one has, is to come up with something like P(A)=0.2, P(B)=0.3, P(C)=0.4 This doesn't work.

One has to work with the conjunctions and come up with something like 

P(A and B and C) = 0.1

P(A and B and not C) = 0.1

P(A and not B and C) = 0.1

P(A and not B and n... (read more)

I started going barefoot in the streets of Edinburgh in February 2000. Eventually I wrote a little web page explaining myself. I didn't want to duplicate what was on the Society For Barefoot Living website, so I narrowed my focus to a single aspect. Twenty four years later, I still go barefoot nearly all the time. Rescuing the text to paste it here, I notice that it has stood the test of time very well :-)

Hard surfaces

Modern life involves much walking on hard surfaces, pavements, reinforced concrete floors, steel decking, and it is worth pondering whether ... (read more)

AlanCrowe2611

This reminds me of a passage in Richard Feynman's memoir "What do you care what other people think?". Four pages into the chapter Gumshoes, (page 163 in the Unwin Paperback edition):

 

Then this business of Thiokol changing its position came up. Mr. Rogers and Dr. Ride were asking two Thiokol managers, Mr. Mason and Mr. Lund, how many people were against the launch, even at the last moment.

 

"We didn't poll everyone," says Mr. Mason.

"Was there a substantial number against the launch, or just one or two?"

"There were, I would say, probably five or six... (read more)

Answer by AlanCrowe103

Consider the case of a reclusive mad scientist who uplifts his dog in the hope of getting a decent game of chess. He is likely to be disappointed as his pet uses his new intelligence to build a still and drink himself to death with homemade vodka. If you just graft intelligence on top of a short term reward system, the intelligence will game it, leading to wireheading and death.

 

There is no easy solution to this problem. The original cognitive architecture implements self-preservation as a list of instinctive aversions. Can one augment that list with ... (read more)

From the perspective of 2023, censorship looks old fashioned; new approaches create popular enthusiasm around government narratives.

 

For example, the modern way for the Chinese to handle Tiananmen Square is to teach the Chinese people about it, how it is an American disinformation campaign that aims to destabilize the PRC by inventing a massacre that never happened, and this is a good example of why you should hate America.

 

Of course there are conspiracy theorist who say that it actually happened and the government covered it up. What happened to... (read more)

3Ethan Edwards
I think you're probably right, my feeling is that organic pro-regime internet campaigns are possibly more important than traditional censorship. The PRC has been good at this and I've also been worried about how vocal Hindutva elements are becoming. I don't know that we've yet found the optimal formula for information control (which is a good thing) and I remain a little agnostic on the balance between censorship and propaganda. This post focused on old-style censorship because it's better documented, but a contemporary information control strategy necessarily involves a lot more.  I've so far been skeptical of a lot of misinformation narratives because I don't think fake news articles for example are labor constrained, but LLMs can definitely be used to boost in the official narrative in more interesting ways. Looking at the PRC again, at least some people in Xinjiang have reported being coerced into posting positively on social about state-narratives, and I have Chinese contacts who have been discouraged socially from posting negative things. I'm guessing some of the censorship tools can also be used to subtly encourage such behaviors and grow the pro-regime mobs.
2[anonymous]
Another example is this very narrative against 'China' (the government there, not the region or people; these are often conflated in popular nationalistic discourse); one totalitarian state garnering opposition against a rival one by attempting to contrast itself against the other, while framing itself as comparatively free. (I hope it's obvious that I'm not defending the government in China, but rather pointing out how it is invoked in American social narratives.)
9Herb Ingram
Indeed, systems controlling the domestic narrative may become sophisticated enough that censorship plays no big role. No regime is more powerful and enduring than one which really knows what poses a danger to it and what doesn't, one which can afford to use violence, coercion and censorship in the most targeted and efficient way. What a small elite used to do to a large society becomes something that the society does to itself. However, this is hard and I assume will remain out of reach for some time. We'll see what develops faster: sophistication of societal control and the systems through which it is achieved, or technology for censorship and surveillance. I'd expect at least a "transition period" of censorship technology spreading around the world as all societies that successfully use it become sophisticated enough to no longer really need it. What seems more certain is that AI will be very useful for influencing societies in other countries, where the sophisticated domestically optimal means aren't possible to deploy. This goes very well with exporting such technology.

Propaganda without censorship can be very weak. There are numerous examples of government officials attempting to convince the population of an official narrative, but the population largely ends up not buying it. We don't even need to talk about things like the JFK conspiracy theories.

For example, during Brazil's Operation Car Wash, many government officials from the ruling Workers' Party initially attempted to present a limited view of the corruption allegations. These allegations revolved around massive kickbacks involving state-controlled oil company P... (read more)

Answer by AlanCrowe30

My case for trigonometry: We want to people understand social cycles. For example, heroin becomes fashionable among young people because it feels good. Time goes by and problems emerge with tolerance, addiction, and overdose. The next cohort  of young people see what happened to aunts and uncles etc, and give heroin a miss. The cohort after that see their aunts and uncles living clean lives, lives that give no warning. They experiment and find that heroin feels good. The cycle repeats.

 

These cycles can arise because the fixed points of the dynami... (read more)

1MikkW
I'd say that this is a better argument for calculus and PDEs than trigonometry- the sine function can be defined purely from a calculus point-of-view, and that definition is more similar to what you describe than the trigonometry perspective

I think that this is especially bad for science because science doesn't have anything equivalent to test and analyze before the medals are handed out. Peer review isn't an adversarial process aimed at detecting fraud. Anti-fraud in science is entirely based on your published papers being analogous to the stored urine samples; you are vulnerable to people getting round to checking, maybe, one day, after you've spent the grant money. If we can translate across from the Olympic experience we are saying that that kind of delayed anti-fraud measure works especially poorly with humans.

My analysis saw the fundamental problem as the yearning for consensus. What was signal? What was noise? Who was trolling? Designers of forum software go wrong when they believe that these are good, one place questions with actual one place answers. The software is designed in the hope that its operation will yield these answers.

My suggestion, Outer Circle got discussed on Hacker News under the title Saving forums from themselves with shared hierarchical white lists and I managed to flesh out the ideas a little.

Then my frail health got even worse and I never did anything more :-(

4Viliam
Not sure about details, but the general idea seems right to me. My thoughts on the topic are usually something like: "How is it possible that in real life we can filter the good stuff much easier than online? I guess because in real life we can use strategies X, Y, Z, but there are not digital equivalents of them in online systems. We cannot use our usual strategies online, because the corresponding button is simply not there." In real life: * different people see different content, because they use different sources of content * people show interesting stuff to their friends * people have different personas for different friends * sometimes a friend sees more than one persona; sometimes we hide a persona from some people * sometimes we agree to talk only about a specific topic for a while Okay, I probably missed a few important things. But this is already difficult to do on many websites. For example, I miss the "persona" feature on Facebook. Having multiple accounts is discouraged. There is an option to post something that only a selected group of friends can read, but that is not what I want. Sometimes I want to post an article that anyone can read, but which only appears by default only on walls of some of my friends. The most obvious example: different languages. There is no point to spam my English-speaking friends' walls with comments written in Slovak. On the other hand, if they decide to view them and use google translate, why not? It's not like I want to keep something secret; I just predict that with high enough probablity they won't care, so I don't want to bother them. Also, I want to keep those comments accessible to Slovak-speaking people who are not in my contacts. If I understand it correctly, Facebook only gives me two options: public (which will push the message on everyone's wall) or private (which will hide the message from everyone except a few hand-picked people), and neither is what I want. This would be easy if I could just have tw
3Error
That is an excellent and thought-provoking essay, and a novel approach. ...I actually don't have more to say about it, but I thought you'd like to know that someone read it.

I think there are ordering constraints on the sequence of technological advances involved. One vision of how revival works goes like this: start with a destructive, high resolution scan of the body, then cure illness and death computationally, by processing the data from the scan. Finally use advanced nano-technology to print out a new, well body.

Although individual mammalian cells can be thawed, whole human bodies are not thawable. So the nano-technology has to be warm as well as macroscopic. Also a warm, half printed body is not viable, so printing has t... (read more)

Most world changing technological breakthroughs are easy compared to resurrecting the frozen dead. Much precedes revival. As the centuries give way to millennia Humans are replaced by Post Humans. As the millennia give way to myriad years Post Humans are replaced by New Humans. As myriad years give way to lakhs of years New Humans are replace by Renewed Humans. As the lakhs give way to millions of years Renewed Humans are replace by Real Humans.

The Real Humans develop the technology to revive the frozen dead. They use it themselves as an ambulance to the f... (read more)

[This comment is no longer endorsed by its author]Reply
2RowanE
If you think this has non-negligible negativity*probability, you've got the conjunction fallacy up the wazoo. Although what it actually reads as is finding a LessWrong framing and context to post the kind of furry hate you'd see in any other web forum, not very constructive. So I'll respond at the same level of discourse to the scenario: "Bitch, I watched Monster Musume. My anaconda don't want none unless she's part anaconda. Your furfags are tame. Didn't you at least bring back any pegasisters? IWTCIRD!" Now, not so much being inclined towards those fetishes as simply not being so stupidly fussy about it that I'd rather kill myself, I have a less immediate reaction that's more about dismantling the scenario: When I'm emulated, I'll ask about their criteria for printing me out into meatspace, and point out "if it's an interesting challenge you want and resurrections are conditional on that, why not just get creative and weird with the internal biology but challenge yourself to keep the exterior looking as human as possible? Like, what if you make my bones out of an entirely different material?" I mean, if I didn't make an argument like that, wouldn't I either be woken up in an anthropomorphic animal body or not be woken up at all, in this scenario?
AlanCrowe350

One problem is that most people think we are always in the short run. No matter how many times you teach students that tight money raises rates in the short run (liquidity effect) and lowers them in the long run (income and Fisher effects), when the long run actually comes around they will still see the fall in interest rates as ECB policy "easing". And this is because most people think the term "short run" is roughly synonymous with "right now." It's not. Actually "right now" we see the long run effects of policies

... (read more)
6Zubon
In practice, the economic "long run" can happen exceedingly quickly. Keynes was probably closer to right with "Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent," but if you plan on the basis of "in the long run we are all dead," you might find out just how short that long run can be.

The quote is easier to understand if you are familiar with Bradshaw.

A computational process is indeed much like a sorcerer's idea of a spirit. It cannot be seen or touched. It is not composed of matter at all. However, it is very real. It can perform intellectual work. It can answer questions. It can affect the world by disbursing money at a bank or by controlling a robot arm in a factory. The programs we use to conjure processes are like a sorcerer's spells. They are carefully composed from symbolic expressions in arcane and esoteric programming languages that prescribe the tasks we want our processes to perform.

Freder... (read more)

Stories always outlasted their usefulness.

That is an interesting thought. When I try to ground it in contemporary reality my thoughts turn to politics. Modern democratic politics is partly about telling stories to motivate voters, but which stories have outlasted their usefulness? Any answer is likely to be contentious.

Turning to the past, I wrote a little essay suggesting that stories of going back to nature to live in a recent golden age when life was simpler may serve as examples of stories that have outlasted their usefulness by a century.

4grendelkhan
We're doing politics? Cool. In a very short-term sense, "death panels". We provide a terrible end-of-life experience for people; we keep people barely at great expense in states of pain and confusion as long as possible even when this is not something that they would want; finite healthcare dollars are thus spent torturing the dying rather than fixing treatable problems in otherwise healthy people. An attempt to make a dent in this (by at least getting people to talk about advance-care directives, for example) was derailed in a failed attempt to score some political points. As a result, this will continue to be a problem for the foreseeable future, because it's no longer a technical problem, it's a Red Team/Blue Team thing. Well done, politics.
AlanCrowe740

I took the survey. Started on the BSRI but abandoned it because I found the process of giving vague answers to vague questions distressing.

AlanCrowe180

I don't see what to do about gaps in arguments. Gaps aren't random. There are little gaps where the original authors have chosen to use their limited word count on other, more delicate, parts of their argument, confident that charitable readers will be happy to fill the small gaps themselves in the obvious ways. There are big gaps where the authors have gone the other way, tip toeing around the weakest points in their argument. Perhaps they hope no-one else will notice. Perhaps they are in denial. Perhaps there are issues with the clarity of the logical st... (read more)

-2AnneOminous
Quote: "The third perhaps is especially tricky. If you "re-express your target’s position ... clearly" you remove the obfuscation that concealed the gap. Now what? Leaving the gap in clear view creates a strawman. Attempting to fill it draws a certain amount of attention to it; you certainly fail the ideological Turing test because you are making arguments that you opponents don't make." Just no. An argument is an argument. It is complete or not. If there is a gap in the argument, in most cases there are two eventualities: (a) the leap is a true one assuming what others would find obvious, or (b) either an honest error in the argument or an attempt to cover up a flaw in the argument. If there is a way to "fill in" the argument that is the only way it could be filled in, you are justified in doing so, while pointing out that you are doing so. If either of the (b) cases hold, however, you must still point them out, in order to maintain your own credibility. Especially if you are refuting an argument, the gap should be addressed and not glossed over. You might treat the (b) situations differently, perhaps politely pointing out that the original author made an error there, or perhaps not-so-politely pointing out that something is amiss. But you still address the issue. If you do not, the onus is now on you, because you have then "adopted" that incomplete or erroneous argument. For example: your own example argument has a rather huge and glaring hole in it: "bad-use will increase a lot and good-use will increase a little". However, history and modern examples both show this to be false: in the real world, decriminalization has increased bad-use only slightly if at all, and good-use more. (See the paper "The Portugal Experiment" for one good example.) Was there any problem there with my treatment of this rather gaping "gap" in your argument?
8CCC
With regards to your example, you try to fix the gap between "consumption will increase" and "that will be a bad thing as a whole" by claiming little good use and much bad use. But I don't think that's the strongest way to bridge that gap. Rather, I'd suggest that the good use has negligible positive utility - just another way to relax on a Friday night, when there are already plenty of ways to relax on a Friday night, so how much utility does adding another one really give you? - while bad use has significant negative utility (here I may take the chance to sketch the verbal image of a bright young doctor dropping out of university due to bad use). Then I can claim that even if good-use increases by a few orders of magnitude more than bad-use, the net result is nonetheless negative, because bad use is just that terrible; that the negative effects of a single bad-user outweigh the positive effects of a thousand good-users. ---------------------------------------- As to your main point - what to do when your best effort to fill the gap is thin and unconvincing - the simplest solution would appear to be to go back to the person proposing the position that you are critically commenting about (or someone else who shares his views on the subject), and simply asking. Or to go and look through his writings, and see whether or not he addresses precisely that point. Or to go to a friend (preferably also an intelligent debator) and asking for his best effort to fill the gap, in the hope that it will be a better effort.

Plus a social mechanism that turns follow-your-dreams versus be-sensible into a hard choice that doesn't much matter.

Also, we can look at the mechanism and see that it affects some people more than others. If you have a common dream, such as being a poet or a novelist, the mechanism is hard at work, flattening the plateau. An example of an uncommon dream is harder to come by.

Once upon a time (1960?) the electric guitar was new. If you formed a band playing electric guitars you would encounter two kinds of opposition. One is "don't be a musician, too ... (read more)

One interesting idea in this space is Compensating Differentials. There is a mismatch between the jobs that people want to do and the jobs that need doing. Wage differences help to reduce the mismatch.

When an ordinary persons tries to optimize their life they face a trade-off. Stick to the line of work they like, which too many other people also like, and be poorly paid, or try something worse for more money. Non-ordinary persons may strike it lucky, finding that they personally like a line of work which is necessary and unpopular and thus well paid. The c... (read more)

3cousin_it
I feel that the idea of a broad plateau is too good to be true. The advantages and disadvantages don't actually balance out, only the perceived ones do. The problem is that our perceptions are affected by biases, some of which were described in the post.
5Viliam_Bur
I think this could be an interesting topic to explore: What are the most unwanted and highly paid jobs, that a rational person might still choose to do? -- There could be some biases, so the job is actually not as horrible as it seems. Or it could be something that people don't do only because of irrational fears. Or something that doesn't seem like making a lot of money, which actually does. Or something else that most people get wrong. There are some problems with this, though. Some unwanted jobs can still be low-status and not paid well, because someone poor enough will be forced to do them anyway. For example, working with garbage. (Maybe the problem is that no one wants to do it, but everyone can, so enough poor people will be forced to.) You could probably save some money by buying a house with number 13, but that's not a regular income. Some kinds of crime could be very profitable on average, but there are also moral problems with this, not merely inconvenience or unpleasantness. So far, I have only three ideas that seem like they could be good: First, doing a job which seems very dangerous (and is rewarded like one), but actually isn't. Such as being a policeman, but specializing on something that lets you avoid any actual danger. Not sure if this is possible. Second, prostitution done smartly, which means being expensive, acting high-status, and spending enough money on lawyers and bodyguards to keep it legal and safe. Third, starting a low-intensity religious cult, by which I mean something where your followers don't leave their jobs and families, but only pay you for prayers and blessing. I suspect more people don't do this even if they are atheists, because they still have an irrational fear that the real gods would punish them for pretending to have supernatural powers. Any other ideas?
6A1987dM
Yes. That's a particular case of Harder Choices Matter Less.
AlanCrowe640

I think there is a tale to tell about the consumer surplus and it goes like this.

Alice loves widgets. She would pay $100 for a widget. She goes on line and finds Bob offering widgets for sale for $100. Err, that is not really what she had in mind. She imagined paying $30 for a widget, and feeling $70 better off as a consequence. She emails Bob: How about $90?

Bob feels like giving up altogether. It takes him ten hours to hand craft a widget and the minimum wage where he lives is $10 an hour. He was offering widgets for $150. $100 is the absolute minimum. Bo... (read more)

3DanArmak
If that job's available, why doesn't he do it instead? If it's not, what's the point of focusing on his wishing - he might as well wish he were a millionaire. The missing detail in your story is what Bob did to earn money while Carol's machine was working. If he was doing something better than hand-making widgets, he wouldn't go back to widgetry unless he could sell at a higher price. And if he was doing something less good than making widgets, he's happy that Carol's machine burned down. Another point is that if Carol's machine can make widgets more cheaply than Bob, then it might make more them, satisfying more market demand. This should cause GDP to rise since it multiplies items sold by price. How common is the case of very inelastic demand (if that's the right term)? These points probably shouldn't change your conclusion that GDP is often a bad measure. Disclaimer: I'm even less of an economist than you are.
3Lumifer
You'll need to fix the start of your post: (emphasis mine): That's exactly what she had in mind since she would pay $100. I think it's better to change it to "Alice would pay $95 for a widget". A couple of other points. Eve's life is very slightly easier since prices of widgets change which means she can estimate part of the demand curve and then estimate the consumer surplus from there. Also, GDP and what it measures has nothing to do with the consumer surplus.

I read your link. Here is what I got from it.

There are three ways to write a novel.

1)Hemingway/Melville: Do stuff, write about it.

2)Kaleidoscope: Study literature at university. Read more novels. Go to writers' workshops. Read yet more novels. Write a million words of juvenilia. Read even more novels. Create mash-up master piece.

3)Irish: Sit in public house, drinking. Write great Irish Novel. How? Miraculously!

Beckett propagandizes against the Irish way, saying "My character, Krapp, tried the Irish way. He tried to helped the miracle along with lots of self-obsession. It worked out badly for him; it will work out badly for you."

That helps me. In his book Quantum Reality, Nick Herbert phrases it this way:

The Everett multiverse violates the CFD assumption because although such a world has plenty of contrafactuality, it is short on definiteness.

which is cutely aphoristic, but confused me. What does contrafactuality even mean in MWI?

Pointing out that MWI rejects factual definiteness clears things up nicely.

My health is very poor. A fleshed out version might run to 25 000 words. I'm not going to manage that. Worse than that, I don't really know how to write. They say one needs to write a million words to be any good, so the full project, learn to write, then come back and flesh it out, runs to 1 025 000 words.

Please have a go at fleshing it out yourself.

Even if you never publish it, you will have to commit to views about personal identity and how and well it survives the passage of decades. Perhaps, in thirty years time, you will rediscover your completed man... (read more)

AlanCrowe150

The actions of the main participants are consistent with their incentives. The owners of the archiving company dodge scandal and ruin by covering up the fact that they have lost Bill's tape "That was unthinkable.". The employees of the archiving company play along with doctoring Fred-minus30's tape "with a bit of manual fixing of uncorrectable errors." and get to keep their jobs.

Fred-minus30 faces the harsh reality of the law that says "There can be only one." He has read his share of hologram-horror and hologram-thriller. He ... (read more)

0TheOtherDave
Thinking about the above some more... How did Fred know the names and phone numbers of Bill's close friends from 30 years ago to call them, especially when they themselves didn't remember knowing Bill back then, and why was it distressing to him when they denied knowing Bill? Under the circumstances, I should think he'd be relieved.
0TheOtherDave
Ah. I'd thought the idea was that everyone (including Fred) thought Fred was Bill, which seemed implausible. But sure, if instead Fred is simply lying, then given the discontinuity in Fred's social life, it's not implausible that none of Fred's friends notice. (If Bill had been a hermit for the last 30 years and interacted with nobody at all, similar things are true.)

I think that is the right question and plunge ahead giving a specific answer, basically that "the self" is an instinct, not a thing.

The self is the verbal behaviour that results from certain instincts necessary to the functioning of a cognitive architecture with intelligence layered on top of a short term reward system. We can notice how slightly different instincts give rise to slightly different senses of self and we can ask engineers' questions about which instincts, and hence which sense-of-self, give the better functioning cognitive archit

... (read more)

Each compartment has its own threshold for evidence.

The post reminded me of Christians talking bravely about there being plenty of evidence for their beliefs. How does that work?

  • When evidence is abundant we avoid information overload by raising the threshold for what counts as evidence. We have the luxury of taking our decisions on the basis of good quality evidence and the further luxury of dismissing mediocre evidence as not evidence at all.

  • Evidence is seldom abundant. Usually we work with a middling threshold for evidence, doing the best we can wit

... (read more)
1deepthoughtlife
A uniform threshold is in fact a very bad idea, because different areas legitimately do have a different amount of available evidence. For instance, the threshold in physics is vastly higher than in neurology, even though both are tremendously complicated, because it is much easier to perform the testing in physics, where we can simply set more money to the task (build things such as the LHC, simply to check a few loose ends). If there is limited evidence, we still often have to come to a conclusion, and we need that conclusion to be right. If talking about certain religious matters, there is virtually no evidence on either side. In fact, it may be that there cannot be a sufficient amount of evidence to determine its, no matter what threshold we set. I believe that this is true, which is why I am strongly agnostic. In many ways, this is similar to being an atheist, (I definitely do not believe in any specific god or religion), but strong atheism requires even more faith than being religious. An omnipotent being is not a logical contradiction, while being capable of causing any kind of results to your testing, and thus there is absolutely no way to prove the nonexistence of an omnipotent being. It is perhaps possible to disprove that the omnipotent being does certain kinds of things regularly, but then the apologetics have the right to point out why your formulation doesn't apply to their god. At least the religious tend to admit the lack of evidence, and that they go by their faith.

As Eilenberg-Mac Lane first observed, "category" has been defined in order to be able to define "functor" and "functor" has been defined in order to be able to define "natural transformation".

Saunders Mac Lane, Categories for the Working Mathematician

5A1987dM
Is there a way to explain that to a non-mathematician?

That doesn't seem to be strictly true.

It goes against the spirit of "15 words" to insist on strict truth. The merit of the quote lies in the fourth clause.

or they have a common effect you're conditioning on.

That's the big surprise. The point of boiling it down to "15 words" is to pick which subtlety makes it into the shortest formulation.

1wedrifid
I would suggest that it goes against the spirit of Judea Pearl's Causality to say things that are false or misleading. Do note that I actually support the example, despite the problems. I expect that the surrounding context in Pearl's work more than adequately explains the relevant details. What I would object to is any attempt to suppress discussion of the limitations of such claims---so if it was the case that the "spirit of '15 words'" discourages discussion and clarification then I would reject it as inappropriate on this site.

In Beyond Freedom and Dignity Skinner writes (page 21)

A more important reason is that the inner man seems at times to be directly observed. We must infer the jubilance of a falling body, but can we not feel our own jubilance? We do, indeed, feel things inside our own skin, but we do not feel the things which have been invented to explain behaviour. The possessed man does not feel the possessing demon and may even deny that one exists. The juvenile delinquent does not feel his disturbed personality. The intelligent man does not feel his intelligence or th

... (read more)
3fubarobfusco
Okay, I can see that interpretation. To draw something else from the distinction: Skinner seems to be talking about the objects of psychotherapeutic inquiry, such as "disturbed personality" or "introversion"; whereas Dennett is talking about the objects of philosophy-of-mind inquiry, such as "beliefs" and "qualia". The juvenile delinquent is imputed as having a "disturbed personality" by others; but the believer testifies to their own belief themselves.

This example pushed me into formulating Crowe's Law of Sarcastic Dismissal: Any explanation that is subtle enough to be correct is turbid enough to make its sarcastic dismissal genuinely funny.

Skinner had a subtle point to make, that the important objection to mentalism is of a very different sort. The world of the mind steals the show. Behaviour is not recognized as a subject in its own right.

I think I grasped Skinner's point after reading something Feynman wrote on explanations in science. You can explain why green paint is green by explaining that paint... (read more)

2fubarobfusco
Dennett's heterophenomenology seems to offer some of the good points of Skinner's behaviorism without a lot of the bad points. Heterophenomenology notices that people's behavior includes making descriptions of their conscious mental states: they emit sentences like "I think X" or "I notice Y". It takes these behaviors as being as worthy of explanation as other behaviors, and considers that there might actually exist meaningful mental states being described. This is just what behaviorism dismisses.

Readers don't know what your post is about. Your comment explains "My goal ..." but that should be the start of the post, orienting the reader.

How does your hypothetical help identify possible dangling units? You've worked it out in your head. That should be the second part of post, working through the logic, here is my goal, here is the obstacle, here is how I get round it.

0bokov
Also, Tool AI is a conclusion, possibly wrong one (still reading the Tool AI post), of a more general point I was trying to make, which I have also not found on this site: What technical problems traditionally associated with AI do NOT need to be solved to achieve the effects of friendly AI.
0bokov
I don't want to influence people with my opinion before they had a chance to express theirs. I am starting to explain it, though, in the comments. But here too, I'm interested in finding holes in my reasoning, not spreading an opinion that I don't yet have a sufficient reason to believe is right.
AlanCrowe110

For the most part the objects which approve themselves to us are not so much the award of well-deserved certificates --- which is supposed by the mass of unthinking people to be the main object --- but to give people something definite to work for; to counteract the tendency to sipping and sampling which so often defeats the aspirations of gifted beings,...

--- Sir Hubert Parry, speaking to The Royal College of Music about the purpose of music examinations

Initially I thought this a wonderful quote because, looking back at my life, I could see several def... (read more)

Any examples of total recursive functions that are not primitive recursive and do not violently explode?

The set of primitive recursive functions is interesting because it is pretty inclusive, (lots of functions have a primitive recursive implementation) and primitive recursive functions always terminate. I'm interested in trying to implement general purpose machine learning by enumerating primitive recursive functions. Which raises the question of just how general the primitive recursive functions really are.

Ackermann's function gives an example of what yo... (read more)

4Douglas_Knight
The inverse of the Ackermann function grows very slowly but is not primitive recursive. That is, the function f where f(n) is the smallest m such that A(m) exceeds n. Of course, this is hardly a different method of proof.

It is an important topic, but the Institute of Economic Affairs landing page that you link to is pretty lame.

Emphasizing "Evidence" gives one a hefty shove towards evidence that is quick and easy to gather.

QUICK The IEA say

A disregard for substitution effects.

but the actual problem is that substitution takes time. If you want to gather evidence about substitution effects you have to be patient. "Evidence based policy making" is biased towards fast-evidence, to accommodate the urgency of policy making. So of course substitution eff... (read more)

Do you have evidence in the other direction?

No. I think one typically has to come up with a brutally truncated approximation to actually Bayesian reasoning. For example, if you have n propositions, instead of considering all 2^ n basic conjunctions, ones first idea is to assume that they are all independent. Typically that is a total failure; the independence assumption abolishes the very interactions that were of interest. So one might let proposition n depend on proposition n-1 and reinvent Markov models.

I don't see much hope of being able to anticipa... (read more)

0JonahS
Ok, thanks for the clarification

You've put your finger on a weakness of my optimistic vision. If the guesses are calling it 90% of the time, they significantly extend the feasible depth of search. But 60:40? Meh! There is a lot of room for the insights to fail to be sharp enough, which turns the Bayesian stuff into CPU-cycle wasting overhead.

AlanCrowe130

Current theorem provers don't have a "sense of direction".

From the description of Polya's Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning: Vol. II: Patterns of Plausible Inference:

This is a guide to the practical art of plausible reasoning, particularly in mathematics but also in every field of human activity. Using mathematics as the example par excellence, Professor Polya shows how even that most rigorous deductive discipline is heavily dependent on techniques of guessing, inductive reasoning, and reasoning by analogy. In solving a problem, the answer mu

... (read more)
6alex_zag_al
Bayesian probability theory tells you how to process evidence as well as possible. If you know what's evidence of a correct path, you can make it into an ad-hoc hueristic more easily than a part of a Bayesian update. Seems like the real insight required is to figure out what's evidence of a correct path.
7JonahS
What I question is whether the Bayesian reasoning algorithms are at all computationally feasible to implement to solve nontrivial problems. See the final two paragraphs of my comment here about computational complexity. Do you have evidence in the other direction?
AlanCrowe160

Madmen we are, but not quite on the pattern of those who are shut up in a madhouse. It does not concern any of them to discover what sort of madness afflicts his neighbor, or the previous occupants of his cell; but it matters very much to us. The human mind is less prone to go astray when it gets to know to what extent, and in how many directions, it is itself liable to err, and we can never devote too much time to the study of our aberrations.

Bernard de Fontenelle,1686

Found in book review

I'm not connected to the Singularity Institute or anything, so this is my idiosyncratic view.

Think about theorem provers such as Isabelle or ACL2. They are typically structured a bit like an expert system with a rule base and an inference engine. The axioms play the role of rule base and the theorem prover plays the role of the inference engine. While it is easy to change the axioms, this implies a degree of interpretive overhead when it come to trying to prove a theorem.

One way to reduce the interpretative overhead is to use a partial evaluator to special... (read more)

2LEmma
Vampire uses specialisation according to wikipedia:
AlanCrowe220

I don't find either example convincing about the general point. Since I'm stupid I'll fail to spot that the mouse example uses fictional evidence and is best ignored

We are all pretty sick of seeing a headline "Cure for Alzheimer's disease!!!" and clicking through to the article only to find that it is cured in mice, knock-out mice, with a missing gene, and therefore suffering from a disease a little like human Alzheimer. The treatment turns out to be injecting them with the protein that the missing gene codes for. Relevance to human health: zero.... (read more)

AlanCrowe420

The corollary is more useful than the theorem:-) If I wish to be less of a dumbass, it helps to know what it looks like from the inside. It looks like bad luck, so my first job is to learn to distinguish bad luck from enemy action. In Eliezer's specific example that is going to be hard because I need to include myself in my list of potential enemies.

6Eliezer Yudkowsky
(That's fair.)

these blogs succeed ... because they ... exclude comments whose quality falls below a certain threshold.

I see an opportunity for philanthropy. Identity the elite people that one hopes will blog, and then pay for somebody else to do the comment moderation for them.

The problem I foresee is that this turns out to be big-money philanthropy. Who do you hire as your moderator? They probably need a PhD in mathematics, and the right personality: agreeable yet firm. People like that have lots of well paid options in which they are not playing second fiddle. The ... (read more)

-2ChristianKl
Money isn't the only thing that motivates people. Most people who moderate forums on the internet aren't payed to do so.
3Vaniver
Or, you get grad students to do it. The experience is mostly there, the personality perhaps not.
AlanCrowe100

One thing that I've tried with Google is using it to write stories. Start by searching on "Fred was bored and". Pick slightly from the results and search on "was bored and slightly". Pick annoyed from the search results and search on "bored and slightly annoyed"

Trying this again just now reminds me that I let the sentence fragment grow and grow until I was down to, err, ten? hits. Then I took the next word from a hit that wasn't making a literal copy, and deleted enough leading words to get the hit count back up.

Anyway, it see... (read more)

3Viliam_Bur
Essentially, you tried to make a Markov-chain story generator. Yes, it generates this type of texts, where short fragments look like parts of meaningful text, but a longer text reveals that it has no sense. Seems to me that there is a mental illness (but I don't remember which one it is) where people generate the same kind of speech. Not sure what are the philosophical consequences for the Turing test, though.

The human brain is subject to glitches, such as petit mal, transient ischaemic attack, or misfiling a memory of a dream as a memory of something that really happened.

There is a lot of scope for a cheap simulation to produce glitches in the matrix without those glitches spoiling the results of the simulation. The inside people notice something off and just shrug. "I must have dreamt it" "I had a petit mal." "That wasn't the simulators taking me off line to edit a glitch out of my memory, that was just a TIA. I should get my blood pr... (read more)

7NancyLebovitz
I've wondered about that sort of thing-- if you look for something and find it somewhere that you'd have sworn you'd checked three times, you'll assume it's a problem with your memory or a sort of ill-defined perversity of things, not a Simulation glitch.
AlanCrowe230

The post doesn't do justice to the subtlety of Turing's insight. The Turing test is two-faced in that the interrogator is addressing two contestants, the computer and the human. He doesn't know which is which, but he hopes that comparing their answers will reveal their identities. But the Turing test is two-faced in a second way.

Turing hopes that the test will satisfy its audience, but that audience contains two groups. There is a pro-AI group. Some of them will have been involved in writing the initial source code of the AI that is taking the test. They a... (read more)

2VCM
The combinatorial explosion is on the side of the TT, of course. But storage space is on the side of "design to the test", so if you can make up a nice decisive question, the designer can think of it, too (or read your blog) and add that. The question here is whether Stuart (and Ned Block) are right that such a "giant lookup table" a) makes sense and b) has no intelligence. "The intelligence of a toaster" as Block said.
4SilasBarta
format *standard-io* Er, if you're smart enough to a) write a Turing Test solver b) that's used in "production" c) in Lisp d) because you're most comfortable in Lisp ... Don't you think you would have factored out such a commonly-used conversation primitive to the point that it doesn't require two keywords (one of them decorated) to invoke? I know, a nitpick, but it kinda stood out :-P
Kindly100

Well, those used to be the three questions we asked, but now you've gone and ruined the Turing test for everyone. Way to go.

Good point! I've totally failed to think about multiple laws interacting.

There would have to be a two sided test. A tort of ineffectiveness by which the plaintiff seeks relief from a law that fails to achieve the goals laid out for it. A tort of under-ambition by which the plaintiff seeks relief from a law that is immune from the tort of ineffectiveness because the formally specified goals are feeble.

Think about the American experience with courts voiding laws that are unconstitutional. This often ends up with the courts applying balancing tests. It can end up with the court ruling that yes, the law infringes your rights, but o... (read more)

8Sabiola
The goal posts should definitely be fixed! And maybe some politicians would want to pass a law that benefits him and his friends in some way, even though it only has a small effect, so there ought to be some kind of safeguard against that, too. But the main problem I can see is anti-synergy. Suppose a law is adopted that totally would have worked, were it not for some other law that was introduced a little later? Should the first one be repealed, or the second one? But maybe the second one does accomplish its goal, and repealing the first one would have negative effects, now that the second one is in place... And with so many laws interacting, how can you even tell which ones have which effects, unless the effects are very large indeed? (Of course, this is a problem in the current system too. I'm glad I'm not a politician; I'd be paralyzed with fear of unintended consequences.)
AlanCrowe-10

I fear that I've missed your point, but here is my runnable toy model written in Common Lisp

(defun x () (random 1.0))
(defun y () (random 1.0))
(defun z () (random 1.0))

(defun x-y () (- (x) (y)))
(defun y-z () (- (y) (z)))
(defun z-x () (- (z) (x)))

(defparameter diffs (list (x-y) (y-z) (z-x)))

(reduce #'+ diffs) => -0.42450535

The variable diffs get set to a list of the three estimates. Adding them up we get -0.424. What has gone wrong?

X, Y, and Z are all 1/2. But they are tricky to measure. (defun x () (random 1.0)) is modelling the idea that whe... (read more)

That clashes in an interesting way with the recent post on Privileging the Question. Let us draw up our own, independent list of things that matter. There will be some, high up our list, about which our culture has no particular belief. Our self imposed duty is to find out whether they are true or not, leaving less important, culturally prominent beliefs alone.

Culture changes and many prominent beliefs of our culture will fade away, truth unchecked, before we are through with more urgent matters.

1cousin_it
I'm not sure you have avoided the question completely. When culture tells you, "X is the most important thing on which I have no particular belief", do you believe it?
Load More