All of Alex Hollow's Comments + Replies

If you make a car with a max speed of 65mph by decreasing the amount of force available, it will be:

  1. impossible to pass cars safely, because you won't be able to overtake quickly
  2. very difficult to maneuver while going near 65 mph, because you won't be able to accelerate quickly
  3. very annoying to change lanes, because while you are vectored to the side, you will be going less than 65 miles per hour down the road because you will max out at (65 * sin(theta)) mph, making it difficult to speed up while changing lanes, which is often considered good form
  4. very diffic
... (read more)
2RamblinDash
The thought would be that it would be the same car, but with some kind of software/hardware limit that prevents it from continuing to speed up once it reached some set speed, like 85 or 90. Not to limit the power train.

To paraphrase the hiker's saying "regret is mandatory, suffering is optional". What you describe as not feeling regret to me sounds like feeling regret but not suffering because of it. Knowing that you could have made a better choice is an act of feeling regret for the choice you did make. Suffering as a result of it is bad for you (it's suffering, after all), and it sounds like you don't suffer when you regret. This is a good place to be! It's good to both recognize that there were better possibilities, and maybe you can aspire to pick better next time, b... (read more)

3Gordon Seidoh Worley
I dispute the claim that regret is mandatory in most senses of the word. I'm specifically saying that I could not have made a better choice because I already made the best possible choice given the circumstances, so there is nothing to regret other than the sort of "regret" that I did not counterfactually maximize expected value. Behind this claim about regret is another: the universe is subjectively deterministic (the universe looks deterministic from the view point of an observer, and any appearance otherwise is due to uncertainty rather than free will or randomness). This claim allows us to avoid making any metaphysical (and thus unprovable) claims like that the universe is really deterministic, that free will exists, or that counterfactuals are real (as opposed to constructs to support the reckoning of causation).

The original post has much more value than the one-sentence summary, but having a one-sentence explanation of the commonality between the mathematical example and the programming example can be useful.

I would say it is perhaps not nice to provide that sort of summary but it is kind.

1Adam Shai
I thought it was a great way to put it and I appreciated it a lot! I'm not even sure the post has more value than the summary; at the very least that one sentence adds a lot of explanatory power imho.

The general lesson is that understanding the thing directly is better than understanding someone else's explanation of the thing.

-2Guillaume Charrier
Yes - but from the post's author perspective, it's not super nice to put in one sentence what he took eight paragraphs to express. So you should think about that as well...

This is a massive misread of the article. The benefit of lifting is the feeling of joy in the merely material, and of transforming the feeling of being embodied from a feeling of trappedness to a feeling of capabilities being granted to you.

Until I’d gained some muscle, I didn’t know that getting out of bed shouldn’t actually feel like much, physically, or that walking up a bunch of stairs shouldn’t tire you out, or that carrying groceries around shouldn’t be onerous. I felt cursed by the necessity of occupying space while shuffling around this mortal coil

... (read more)
5Richard_Kennaway
I've heard that often, when someone who says, I don't care about strength, what's it good for, I've no use for it, etc. actually gives weight training a try and gets the noob gains, then funnily enough, you don't hear that from them again.

Unfortunately, all of life is a virtue ethics/game theory context.

1Dzoldzaya
It's true that virtue ethics and game theory permeate through our experiences, but much of life is comprised of single-shot games, or situations where utilitarian calculus (or even just selfishness) overwhelms virtue ethics. 

Excellent post. To do things, do things, and surround yourself with people who do things. To do things better, you have to practice rationality, but without some specific target goal, you can't evaluate whether you are being successful at your practice of rationality.

I've noticed a similar thing with Anki flashcards, where my brain learns to memorize responses to the shape of the input text blob when I have cards that are relatively uniquely-shaped. I have to swap around the layout every few months to ensure that the easiest model to subconsciously learn is the one that actually associates the content on the front of the card with the content on the back of the card.

Less so under potentially adversarial conditions, when there are politics/culture-war aspects. For example, many people have large personal and social incentives to convince you of various ideas related to UFOs. In that case, it may not be the correct move to engage with the presented arguments, if they are words chosen to manipulate and not to inform. Do not process untrusted input,.

I'm curious if you think that this formulation of the above idea is still antithetical to epistemic rationality.

2mako yass
In situations like that, I'd say, more.. you should process it with reduced energy, in correct proportion. I wouldn't say you should completely deafen yourself to anyone (unless it's literally a misaligned AIXI). I think even this slackened phrasing is not applicable to the current situation, because the people I'm primarily listening to are mostly just ordinary navy staff who are pretty clearly not wired up to any grand disinformation apparatus about UAP.

Kids can be surprisingly useful resources at a surprisingly early age.

 

On farms, as you've said, kids can figure out what to do and help out easily. If your work requires a lot of low-skill repetitive manual labor, kids can do that, and it can help teach them how to do your slightly higher-skill labor next year. 

This does not apply if you work as an engineer, or in an office, or many other cases where specific skills contingent on mostly-finished-developing brains are required to do your work and there is no manual labor that you can offload to c... (read more)

It feels like an important metric is "karma per view" or "karma per read" or "karma per user-minute-looking-at-text" something similar. Currently, we can't gauge that, and so when someone who gives a strong prior that their post will be worth reading posts, that post will get more views which means more upvotes even if they have a similar "karma per read".

EDIT: EY's post loaded the second I posted this, but I promise it was an independent invention

And ironically, your post has substantially less karma than Eliezer's does, despite saying basically the same thing!

What asymmetries did you introduce into your simulations that lead to a difference? Models with no gender differences but with mandatory sexual reproduction usually tend to be 50/50 in my experience. 

4ChristianKl
My models had humans with their full 46 chromosomes and multiple genes per chromosome. In addition, I have transposons on those chromosomes. I also tried to have a model of mating behavior where males and females obviously have different roles.  Mutations on the x-chromosome lead more frequently to pregnancy termination in male offspring. This is pretty obvious given that female offspring have more redundancy when it comes to the X chromosome.  The transposon-related pregnancy terminations that in turn terminate more female pregnancies than male ones are less obvious. I think I have some insight there that could be publishable. If anyone wants to collaborate on a paper I'm happy to say more privately.  Transposons and their effects get often not taken as seriously as they should. 

Excellent post. Well-researched, with important caveats put right where I was about to ask for a clarification, and solidly straddles the line between life advice and teaching new facts about the world. As someone with alcoholic's genes who gets almost no hangovers, I probably won't be trying this, but I appreciate knowing that activated charcoal might help if I do start to worry about hangovers.

1Maxwell Peterson
Thank you!

I noticed the same thing, and realized that I was feeling the LW-tribe feeling of "people say they like real science but like fake science, only me and my in-group like real science". It was also annoying for me as I watched it, but I think that responding specifically to that phrase is as much a tribal signaling thing as using it is.

For a good paper on this topic, I have to recommend Werfel et al. 2017:

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0173677

They make a spatial model of a world where resources replenish at a fixed rate and show that mortal populations outcompete immortal populations by improving their children's fitness, as there are fewer mass starvation events. 

Hi - I like this post and I'm glad you were able to put 60% of the value of a book into a table! One question I had - you say that IVF costs $12k and surrogacy costs $100k, but also that surrogacy is only $20k more than IVF? That doesn't add up to me.

Also, sperm/egg donation are usually you getting paid to give those things, which help you have children technically. But those children are probably not being raised by you, so a lot of the benefits you cite, like playing with grandchildren, might be smaller for children created with donated gametes than children you bear and raise yourself.

2Optimization Process
Ah, yes, this threw me too! I think @weft is right that (a) I wasn't accounting for multiple cycles of IVF being necessary, and (b) medical expenses etc. are part of the $100k surrogacy figure. Thanks for revealing that I wrote this ambiguously! The figures in the book are for receiving donated eggs/sperm. (Get inseminated for $355, get an egg implanted in you for $10k.)
4weft
I agree. I think the IVF number is just plain wrong. I'm getting ready to have IVF myself and the total bill will be well over $25k even if we succeed in the first round, which is only 65% likely. Maybe he researched the cost of "IVF" itself, but didn't think to add on the cost of implantation, injectable drugs, etc. which is a huge percentage of the cost.

I think winning at sports is more of a thing that lead to our ancestors increasing their chances of procreation. Would you feel as happy about your relatives becoming sperm or egg donors?

To me, executing adaptations that probably made my ancestors increase their chances of procreation does make me happier (flirting successfully with people, feeling high-status, eating good food, etc), but not the things that actually maximize my current inclusive fitness. Otherwise, I would be really happy about the thought of becoming a sperm donor! You might be interested in this post about executing adaptations.

Can you clarify? Are you saying that you are only happy while actively procreating or increasing your children/relatives' chance of precreation?

Book review is now up here for those interested.

Narrow Roads of Gene Land Volume 2: Evolution of Sex by W. D. Hamilton claims to cover this topic, and I just got a copy. I plan on reading and writing a book review, because I suspect that Hamilton has some good theories that LW would be interested in, given this post and recent interest in the evolution of sex.

1Alex Hollow
Book review is now up here for those interested.
Answer by Alex Hollow30

For a more iterative approach that isn't guided by theory, you can do small experiments whenever you are taking a photo. When you are taking a picture of something, try any or all of the following and see which come out better: 

  • Flash vs no flash.
  • Move the camera up, down, left, and right. See 
  • Move the camera closer or further away, possibly zooming to compensate.
  • Move your subject to change the background.
  • Try increasing or decreasing the amount of bokeh.
  • If you have a friend nearby, try adding "off-camera flash" by having them hold up their phone flashlight. 

 

Over time, you can build an intuition for which of these things are likely to help.

This post is excellent. The airplane runway metaphor hit home for me and I think it will help me explain my worries about exponential growth to other people more clearly than graphs, so thanks for writing it up!

Answer by Alex Hollow10

One typical concern around building friendly AI that is slower or less effective than unfriendly AI is that a smarter unfriendly AI will be able to win against any non-smart friendly AI. Your proposal doesn't seem to address this problem.

It's also not clear how your proposal would prevent an AI running on a blockchain from using its (limited due to blockchain stuff?) power to create a copy of itself running on more traditional computing hardware.

1pilord
My thought is that even if an AI could create a copy of itself on more traditional hardware, it would nonetheless have little functionality to do anything, because everything else would be on the blockchain. If I had an idle computer disconnected to the internet today, even if it were hyperintelligent, what could it do? 

I like this post's idea, and reversing the causal arrow. Most people think that life philosophy causes life outcome, so they look for the right life philosophy, but if it were the opposite you should be chasing the life outcome, and then you will end up with the life philosophy.

I don't get the first two paragraphs at all, though. Are you trying to say that Sapphire was doing something that everyone could learn how to do, but disguised it behind a mystic pretense, and that was bad? I don't think I fully get how it ties into the rest of the post (although I haven't seen the show, so I may be missing something).

1Space L Clottey
I think what I'm getting at is a desire for better self-awareness in people giving advice. I think it's fine to give the alternative, brute force  methodology version (step-by-step philosophy to happiness / probability theory) as a way to artifically make up for it in the absence of the original way of acquiring the skill (of happiness / future vision). So I think what Saphire's doing is fine, except if it's under the pretense that that's how you actual acquired the skill in the first place, which I think reflects lack of self awareness. 

I'd recommend GURPS as a base game. It is a very flexible toolkit for making RPGs. It already has some mechanics for things like "Enhanced Time Sense" and the ability to create characters that exist as intelligences without physical bodies other than computational hardware. 

On a separate note, I think that incidents are the opposite of this - that requires that people go through and find what is wrong immediately, because the response is urgent. If anything, a Root Cause Analysis after the fact would be more similar. Or possibly the outage investigation. You might be interested in Julia Evan's debugging puzzles, which are small-scale but good introductions. I could imagine similar scenarios with real servers (and a senior dev moderating) being good training on debugging server issues and learning new tools.

2Dagon
I should have been more specific that the post-mortem is a critical part of the incident handling.  I see a lot of similarity in tactical decision-making, both in the incident handling (the decisions made) and in the post-mortem (the analysis and rationale).   Strategic decision-making, tradeoffs about solving a narrow problem simply or leaving room for a class of problems, with more complexity (and structures to handle that complexity), is a related, but different set of skills.

There is some extent to which you need long-term software project experience to learn how to deal with maintenance and extensibility over multiple years. However, there is still some benefit for devs who are fresh out of college and haven't done software maintenance. A lot of junior devs realize their designs are bad when asked "What if you need to add X later?". And these decision making training games would help with that.

How would you feel about someone being given a pile of code, and having to add a feature that requires modifications throughout the co... (read more)

3Dagon
I think this describes many internships or onboarding projects for developers.  My general opinion is that, when nobody's shooting at you, it's best to do this on real software, rather than training simulations. The best simulation is reality itself.

I would love to hear an example of this in more detail - I think I understand the things you are talking about but an example would help make sure.

Something I do in some conversations is use mathematical concepts like "normally distributed around X". I think this partially fits the thing you are talking about, but I find it has two additional benefits for conversation. First, it can help specify a topic more clearly and concisely for people that understand. And second, it can let people know that you know about math/stats and lets them start using similar ... (read more)

I'd be careful with thinking of prepping as a binary "do/don't prep" distinction. If you live somewhere where a civil war happens every 2-3 years, the expected value of something that only has value in a civil war scenario is much higher than if one happens every 150 years or so. However, that doesn't mean you should "prep" in one case and not the other, just that some actions that would be worth it if civil wars were frequent are not worth it if civil wars are infrequent. Water may be useful in both, but training your friends in wilderness survival or whatever, maybe less so.

1bfinn
Indeed. I think it's pretty clear there are a few basic prepping things (such as water storage) which are well worthwhile whatever the risk, because they're cheap and potentially life-saving. And some useful halfway houses - eg re wilderness survival, buying a book (but not going on a survival course) is a cheap option.

I don't think I understand the question. If something is expensive but will definitely (let's say with 99% certainty) save my life (which I think is the sort of thing you are describing as expensive_but_must), I would buy it at almost any cost. 

buying a bunker is not frequent that much anymore

Are you sure? The second doom boom is here, and people are buying bunkers again.

The difference between bunkers and water is not just the cost, but the probability of needing one - there are many non-nuclear-war cases for wanting water on hand. So water has a higher probability of being useful, and a lower cost.

1Crackatook
Desire to have a bunker would be more universal at that time. I think the customer pool has become much narrower and maniac these days. For example, the government considering building shelters is absurd this time, but they did in the past. On the other hand, the fallout shelters are one of historical features in the 50s-60s. Sorry, I tried to mean when we were in the cold war era, specific to the nuclear disaster. I just wanted to ask what will happen when we need to prep expensive_but_must items. What if water is so expensive already?

Most places have water, but how close is it to where you live? If you don't have a way of storing a significant amount of water, and live far enough from your local water source that you would have to drive, there is a benefit to having enough water storage so that you can transport a reasonable amount of water per trip.

But I agree that having a water filter on hand is useful in cases where you have access to water, but you aren't sure whether it's safe to drink or not.

2Stuart Anderson
-

I think your definition of perfect model is a bit off - a circuit diagram of a computer is definitely not a perfect model of the computer! The computer itself has much more state and complexity, such as temperature of the various components, which are relevant to the computer but not the model. 

Containing a copy of your source code is a weird definition of a model. All programs contain their source code, does a program that prints it source code have more of a model of itself than other programs, which are just made of their source code? Human brains ... (read more)

4Alex Flint
But there is no fundamental law of physics that says that the computer cannot maintain estimates of the temperature of each of its components. Now it is true that a computer cannot store the exact physical state of every atom that constitutes it, since storing that much information would indeed require the full physical expressivity of every atom that constitutes it, and there would indeed be no room left over to do anything else. But digital computers are designed precisely so that their behavior can be predicted without needing to track the exact physical state of every atom that constitutes them. Humans are certainly able to reason about computers in quite a bit of detail without tracking the exact physical state of every atom that constitutes them. And there is no reason that a digital computer couldn't store and use a self-model with at least this level of predictive power. Well sure, containing a copy of your own source code on its own is not really a "self-model", but it does show that there is nothing fundamentally blocking you from analyzing your own source code, including proving things about your own behavior. There is nothing fundamentally paradoxical or recursive about this. The claim was made that things cannot contain perfect models of themselves, but in fact things can contain models of themselves that are sufficiently to reason about. Well yes, but the autonomous car in the parable didn't go wrong by having an insufficiently perfect self-model. It had a self-model quite sufficient to make all the predictions it needed to make. If the self-model had been more detailed, the car still would have gone wrong. Even if it had a truly perfect self-model, even though such a thing is not permitted under our laws of physics, it still would have gone wrong. So the problem isn't about the inability for things to contain models of themselves. It's about how those self-models are used.

This is a really good illustration of the 5 and 10 problem. I read the linked description, but didn't fully understand it until you walked through this example in more depth. Thanks!

One possible typo:  You used 5a and 5b in most of the article, but in the original list of steps they are called 6 and 7.

2Alex Flint
Thanks - fixed!

This is definitely not a "big problem" in that we can use math regardless of what the outcome is. 

It sounds like you're arguing that semantic uniformity doesn't matter, because we can change what "exists" means. But once you change what "exists" means, you will likely run into epistemological issues. If your mathematical objects aren't physical entities capable of interacting with the world, how can you have knowledge that is causally related to those entities? That's the dilemma of the argument above - it seems possible to get semantic uniformity at the expense of epistemological uniformity, or vice versa, but having both together is difficult.

1TAG
Nobody has to believe that ordinary non mathematical langage contains a single well defined meaning of "exists". And if "exists" is polysemous , then one of its meanings could be the meaning of mathematically-exists ... it doesn't have to have a unique meaning. Fictivism is an example: the theory that mathematically-exists means fictionally-exists, since ordinary language allows truth and existence to be used in reference to fictional worlds.

I'm not super up-to-date on fictionalism, but I think I have a reasonable response to this.

When we are talking about fictional worlds, we understand that we have entered a new form of reasoning. In cases of fictional worlds, all parties usually understand that we are not talking about the standard predicate, "exists", we are talking about some other predicate, "fictionally-exists". You can detect this because if you ask people "do those three Jedi really exist?", they will probably say no. 

However, with math, it's less clear that we are talking fictio... (read more)

1JBlack
The main difference between mathematics and most other works of fiction is that mathematics is based on what you can derive when you follow certain sets of rules. The sets of rules are in principle just as arbitrary as any artistic creation, but some are very much more interesting in their own right or useful in the real world than others. As I see it, the sense in which 2+2 "really" equals 4 is that we agree on a foundational set of definitions and rules taught at a very young age in today's cultures, following those rules leads to that result, and that such rules have been incredibly useful for thousands of years in nearly every known culture. There are "mathematical truths" that don't share this history and aren't talked about in the same way.
1AprilSR
The motivation to me seems exactly the same as with fiction: we're talking about things other than physical objects or whatever.
1TAG
Talking about mathematics, qua fictions, cant possibly have less motivation than talking about fictions qua fictions. People also tend to regard their own tribal myths as really true, as well.

Hi! I really appreciate this reply, and I stewed on it for a bit. I think the crux of our disagreement comes down to definitions of things, and that we mostly agree except for definitions of some words.

Knowledge - I think knowledge has to be correct to be knowledge, otherwise you just think you have knowledge. It seems like we disagree here, and you think that knowledge just means a belief that is likely to be true (and for the right reason?). It's unclear to me how you would cash out "accurate map" for things that you can't physically observe like math, b... (read more)

2Shmi
Interesting... My feeling is that we are not even using the same language. Probably because of something deep. It might be the definition of some words, but I doubt it.  what does it mean for knowledge to be correct? To me it means that it can be used to make good predictions.  well, that's the same thing, a model that makes good predictions. "The right reason" is just another way to say "the model's domain of applicability can be expanded without a significant loss of accuracy".  You can "observe math", as much as you can observe anything. How do you observe something else that is not "plainly visible", like, say, UV radiation?  That is not quite what I said, I think. I meant that math is as real as, well, baseball. I... was saying the opposite. That mathematical knowledge exists just as much as any other knowledge, it just comes equipped with its own unique rigging, like proven theorems being "true", or, in GEB's language, a collection of valid strings or something. I don't want to go deeper, since math is not my area. In general, the concept of existence and reality, while useful, has a limited applicability and even lifetime. One can say that some models exist more than others, or are more real than others.  I agree with that, but those standards are not linguistic, the way (your review of) Benacerraf's paper describes it, that they should have the same form (semantic uniformity). The standards are whether the models are accurate (in terms of their observational value) in the domain of their applicability, and how well they can be extended to other domains. Semantic uniformity is sometimes useful and sometimes not, and there is no reason that I can see that it should be universally valid. Not sure if this made sense... Most people don't naturally think in the way I described.
1TAG
Thoroughgoing anti realism gives you a kind of semantic uniformity , at the expense of having the same level of anti realism about non mathematical entities. Do you want to give up believing in electrons?

Hi - looks like you did a relative link (https://www.lesswrong.com/capital-gains-in-agi-big.png) but you want this absolute link instead: https://www.jefftk.com/capital-gains-in-agi-big.png

2mingyuan
Fixed! Thanks :)

Benacerraf convinced me that either mathematical sentences have different logical forms than non-mathematical sentences or that mathematical knowledge has a different form than non-mathematical knowledge. It sounds like your view is that mathematical sentences have different forms (they all have an implicit "within some mathematical system that is relevant, it is provable that..." before them), and also that mathematical knowledge is different (not real knowledge, just exists in a system). In other words, it sounds like you just think that epistemic unifor... (read more)

3Shmi
First, I appreciate your thoughtful reply! Yes. And your paraphrasing matches what I tried to express pretty well, except when you use the term "knowledge". Depends on your definition of "objective". It's a loaded term, and people vehemently disagree on its meaning. Not really, I just don't think you and I use the term "knowledge" the same way. I reject the old definition "justified true belief", because it has a weasel word "true" in it. Knowledge is an accurate map, nothing else. I'd restrict the notion of "truth" to proved theorems. Not just provable, but actually proved. Which also means that different people have different mathematical truths. If I don't know what the eighth decimal digit of pi is, the statement that it is equal six is neither true nor false for me, not without additional evidence. In that sense, a set of mathematical axioms carves out a piece of territory that is in the model space. There is nothing particularly contradictory about it, we are all embedded agents, and any map is also a territory, in the minds of the agents. I agree that math is not very special, except insofar as it has a specific structure, a set of axioms that can be combined to prove theorems, and those theorems can sometimes serve as useful maps of the territory outside the math itself. I am not sure what your objection is to the statement that mathematical truths can be discovered experimentally. Seems like we are saying the same thing? It's worse than that. "Truth" is not a coherent concept outside of the parts of our minds that do math. A better way to state this is that the theorem 2+2=4 was not a part of whatever passed for math back then. We are in the process of continuous model building, some models work out and persist for a time, some don't and fade away quickly. Some models propagate through multiple human minds and take over as "truths", and others remain niche, even if they are accurate and useful. That depends on the memetic power of the model, not just

I think one issue is that comment trees are just not the ideal format for conversation. It's pretty common that someone will make a comment with four different claims, and then ten different comments of which two make similar objections to one, and then a couple other objections, and those will be responded to, and it's all very ad-hoc. Structure doesn't spontaneously emerge, and having to scan through a whole disordered tree to understand the current state of the argument makes it hard for bystanders to join.

Having a section for posts-for-the-month (or "O... (read more)

6gilch
https://kialo.com has an online implementation of these. I tried it out for a while. It was definitely interesting, but I think this is the wrong format for rational conversation. It was too focused on scoring debate points, at the expense of finding out what is true. It succeeded in being entertaining, but probably doesn't change anyone's mind very often. Something more like collaborative Bayesian nets seems like a better approach for us, but if the software exists, I haven't found it yet.
3Adam Zerner
Ah, much better name! Thanks! I agree that this is a pretty big problem. However: 1. I suspect that the solution is moreso about having humans periodically take the time to distill/organize the current state of the conversation. Argument maps are a cool idea, but my sense is that the structure they impose would make things awkward. 2. I don't get the sense that this problem is the major obstacle. It isn't as frequent as I think it should be, but people do successfully have long running discussions despite this obstacle.

I really enjoyed reading this, and learning about the symmetries between electron shells and nuclear/proton shells. It wasn't clear to me why the nuclear waste in concrete is safe to hug - from a quick google, apparently all matter blocks gamma radiation, and concrete is made out of matter. Concrete is typically used because it is cheap and dense, and often "heavy concrete" made with dense industrial waste material (fly ash, slag, etc) is used for radiation shield. source

3jasoncrawford
Yup, you can block any radiation with enough concrete around it.

I think it still applies relatively well? If you are trying to limit growth to avoid x-risk, and anyone else is purely maximizing growth, they will grow relative to you, and your growth-limited, x-risk-avoiding faction will become irrelevant in size as the other factions grow. The point about requiring unilateral buy-in still applies: if you want to slow growth to avoid x-risk, you need unilateral buy-in, or you will quickly become irrelevant compared to people maximizing growth.

I guess it depends on how you think about profit maximization. If eliminating competition increases profit, wouldn't a profit-maximizer want to eliminate competition as well?

2Shmi
Well, yes, but that's the difference between instrumental and terminal goals. If your terminal goal is (longest) survival, not profit or growth, your best instrumental goals are not that obvious. This is basically like in any strategy game. Should you eliminate any competition the moment you notice it? Should you alternate between growth (through profit) and war? Should you cultivate competition for a time, then cull them just before they become a threat? Should you conserve limited resources? Definitely the growth stage is important as a part of any "proposed solution", but it doesn't mean that it's the main metric to focus on.

If you don't like doing all the non-programming work that running your own company entails, you might prefer a annoying job that still only requires programming over starting your own company.

Yeah, exactly! This whole post is meant to suggest the idea of a gun license as a cheap way of being a specific kind of optionality.

gwern*230

Considering how frequent mental issues are around here, this post seems to buy entirely the wrong kinds of optionality.

EDIT: oh look what's on the main page a day later

A lot of them have exceptions for items produced before the ban, like the Massachusetts "Assault Weapons Ban" that allows only AR-15 lowers produced before the ban to be used without reduced ergonomics. Also, having a license gives you the option to buy a gun before such a ban goes into effect, if they ban items that you think you would want later! If you see a ban happening, and have to wait a year for your license, you do not have an option to get whatever is being banned before the ban goes through.

Also, procuring guns has lots of downsides - storage co... (read more)

I edited my post to make it Massachusetts specific - good point on gun accessibility variability. I didn't get into the reasons for owning a gun, because that is something I am personally less sure about and also varies widely from person to person. The main point is meant to be that a license is a cheap way to buy optionality, and I think that holds, although I may try to find some more general examples of times when you might want a gun.

Great point - edited to update with this. In Massachusetts, you need a license to own a gun or ammo, and that is the same license as a concealed carry license. I definitely over-generalized above. Thanks for pointing that out!

I didn't say anything about actually owning a gun in this post, only purchasing the right to buy a gun later! I think actually owning a gun has more potential downsides then having the right to own a gun.

5Dagon
Sure, but the argument follows to actually procuring guns.  There are bans and limits being enacted over time, and almost all of them have exceptions for items purchased before the ban.
3[anonymous]
Optionality, to echo Nassim Taleb?