All of BradTaylor's Comments + Replies

Surely, other things equal, your best estimate for future voting is current voting. It's more likely that another 20 will upvote than another 20 downvote. If you're only concerned with the outcome, your best strategy will be to downvote. Of course, you may feel really bad if you downvoted a comment below what you think it deserves, because you were responsible.

I didn't read EY as making that point. The 'hit points' analogy suggests that he's giving money priority over other things. Am I wrong?

In any case, there are some things that don't seem measurable in dollar terms: how much money would I accept to drop X% in social status or Y fewer friends? I have no idea. I'm not suggesting that people don't trade these things off, just that money is not a neutral currency with which we can compare the value of any two things. It allows for a imperfect but useful comparison of the subjective value of things for which a ... (read more)

1Nebu
Like Ciphergoth, I think EY's point is that you can determine how much someone cares about some cause by seeing how much money they're willing to give up for that cause. So money has no inherent value in itself. It's only value is in giving it away to get something else in return; a sentiment I think most rational people agree and accept with. You're looking at it in the reverse direction. It's not about receiving money. It's about giving up money. How much money would you be willing to spend for an increase in social status, or having more friends? Would you be willing to spend money to buy better clothes, an expensive watch, a nice car, a nice home, etc. for an increase in status? Would you be willing to pay for membership to some club, or for internet access, or at a social bar, for the opportunity to make more friends? If my best friend had cancer, and needed money for treatment, I'd probably contribute up until the thousands. It may sound harsh, cold and calculating, but when we get into the tens of thousands, it simply becomes too much for me to contribute. I care that my friend lives comfortably, but not infinitely so. The amount of money I'm willing to give up is an indication of the magnitude of how much I care.

Just noticed that taw makes the same signaling point below.

In our society, this common currency of expected utilons is called "money". It is the measure of how much society cares about something.

What is this 'society' of which you speak?

And why should we expect a common currency of utilions? Money can buy you lots of things, but not anything. Plenty of people give up lucrative careers for more satisfying ones. That doesn't negate your overall argument, but I think you're wrong on that particular point.

My view is that charity has less to do with actually helping the needy than with signaling compass... (read more)

Plenty of people give up lucrative careers for more satisfying ones.

That's the whole point EY is making - in this very example money is the fungible currency of utilons. How much more satisfying? Satisfying enough to give up $X/year.

1BradTaylor
Just noticed that taw makes the same signaling point below.

I think a lot of religious signaling works because folks can signal commitment to a particular religious community. While publicly being an atheist/rationalist may make it harder to join a religious group, thus keeping you an atheist, I doubt it commits you to a particular organization. It seems to me that part of the reason religious communities are so stable is that so much of an individual's identity is tied to believing in this particular organization, having these particular goals, or following this particular charismatic leader. Strong and unqualified loyalty to a particular group seems at odds with rationalism.

A persuasive school of thought in the economics of religion suggests that in order to build community, churches often artificially increase barriers to exit and require all sorts of crazy behaviour to signal commitment, thus preventing free-riding. Irrational belief and the accompanying ritual seems to be pretty good at this. I'm not too sure how a rationalist community would fare in this respect...

2MBlume
Brad, HTML markup doesn't work in comments. The syntax you want to use is link text in square brackets, followed immediately by URL in parentheses. While working on a comment, you can click "help" (just below and on the right of the edit box) to see more.
7cabalamat
At least for now, most people are not atheists/rationalists. Atheism may seem to be a crazy behaviour to a lot of people! So maybe one can signal commitment by publically associating oneself with an atheist/rationalist organisation.