All of buggy's Comments + Replies

buggy00

I do like the idea of creating a decision market to value those metrics (although the inherent bias of e.g. a rich Stanford alum believing a Stanford degree is worth an extra $10M and wanting to lend "too much" money on that basis only helps the business get seeded).

Unlike a Human Capital Contract, we're presupposing the lender knows the value of the goal, and unlike a loan, the triggers aren't to protect an interest ((re)payment milestones) so much as mold a desirable outcome (achievement milestones), and again, while student loans are the obvio... (read more)

buggy10

For those asking how this is different from a loan, the important difference is that you don't get money just for saying you want to take money from your future self, you get money for achieving metrics that you and the lenders have decided will get you to a pre-selected goal. That goal can be as much about what the lenders want, as what you want (hopefully there will be an intersection between the two sets). And you don't get the money based on creditworthiness, but rather the expected gain in future earnings/benefit that getting the loan (and reaching th... (read more)

buggy00

I am willing to put some time into this idea (mostly from the www design and hosting end ... the thought of starting another business makes me very sleepy) ... see my previous post on how far I'd go with an idea.

I think the way to start this would be to ask the people who are ponying up the money what they want to achieve and what they're willing to lend to see that happen, what they think the ROI of borrowers getting that money for that purpose would be, what they think are the specific steps/incentives the borrowers need to reach that goal ... and just p... (read more)

buggy00

I'm looking for, but can't find that post ... is there an expand-all function to the threaded discussions? I thought I read all the initial ideas (but not all responses) before posting. In any case, "not really" is my presumed answer, since I think the distinguish features from a generic student loan would be:

  • there would be a specific schedule of milestones for a set list of goals (which could be set by individual lenders, if this was done Kiva-style). The goal is to get the otherwise-dropout to finish school, etc. This provides a societal bene
... (read more)
0gwern
If you Google "student loans site:overcomingbias.com", the first hit is the relevant http://www.overcomingbias.com/2011/10/its-called-stock.html with comments that point to other people's versions; on the second page, http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/10/college-choice.html is also relevant. Loans can come with such triggers and due-dates. They are written in a Turing-complete language, after all. I agree that the optics are the main problem.
buggy20

I can see this expanding into news-like arenas, e.g.:

Friend of a friend had their dog pulled out of their car and tossed into traffic (you may remember the story). So friend starts a site to gather info on the suspect, and eventually they have enough of a profile and info that they handed the bolus to a private detective who busted the guy. (I have another friend with a stolen -- not lost -- pet, who would like to accrete info on the thief).

Or, a person was shot and killed in my neighborhood, and since people don't talk much 'round here, that crime will ne... (read more)

buggy50

Second, my concept ... essentially, borrowing money from your future self for something with a postive ROI expectation value.

Economists can (OK, do) roughly value certain life milestones, such as the increase in lifetime earnings for finishing high school (for the sake of this discussion, let's use $500K for that number). They also believe that certain goals (e.g. passing grades for a semester) can be cash-incentivized. So you let an individual borrow a portion of their future benefit (10%? $50K buys a lot of incentive from a HS student) in the present, wi... (read more)

2gwern
Isn't this just the same as Hanson's idea on investors giving out student loans in exchange for return from future income, but with caps on totals?
2Davidmanheim
I love this idea, in theory. (Are you willing to start devoting time to the idea?) The question is how to run a trial for this. Do you start with high schoolers? Or college students? (There are some real advantages there...) If it's a couple of $500 loans, there are plenty of people who would fund them. The infrastructure would be harder. Perhaps in could be run through the college, or as part of a new type of college loan program. (Speaking of which, why are those loan rate so high? Could we do better - because 8% is not a good deal for a cash advance on future earnings!) Practical questions: 1) Can a minor (High School age) sign a legally binding contract? Who would do so for them? 2) Are monetary incentives a good idea for long term incentification of learning? There are studies that show that when monetary incentives are used, they undermine other sources of motivation. 3) Would they misuse the money (I'd hate to incentivize a teen into buying a iPad so they can waste their time and ruin their academics afterwards...) I would be thrilled to help with $500 pre-loan incentives for good grades in engineering classes: we need more engineers, and they make good money, even if they starve in college. But are those the students that need further motive to do well in school?
4Larks
Is this very different from just taking out a loan?
buggy50

First, a meta-discussion ... I think when a lot of people hear the word "startup" they think two things: long hours in an under-funded environment, and the hope of a short-term payoff (or at least an exit strategy). This may be incompatible with the idea of pulling a bunch of hours away from a bunch of bright people already involved in other things. It may also be counter-productive to the goal of benefiting people: one of the shortcomings of established corporations is the focus on near-term gains, even at the cost of long-term viability or bene... (read more)

5ShannonFriedman
My experience with the Rejuvenate people is quite different - basically, if you are someone like a coach who can generate high income/hour but doesn't work many hours, you just outsource everything. Coaches (who have taken marketing courses) usually make $97+/hr, so in that position, if you can pay someone $10-50/hr, to do a few hours of work for you - usually they get more done/hour on tasks like cleaning, filing, and basic website development anyway, and then you use a fraction of the time they save you on marketing and doing coaching, and easily make it back while spending much less time working. If you're someone who can make a lot of money consulting or programming, do a little contract work, and hire college students to do all the work you don't want to for your projects. Have them help you come up with systems that you can easily teach new people if they quit, and you save a lot of time and stress and work that is not what you want to be doing. I'm working on developing a program with that sort of material for this crowd (decided it was higher leverage use of my time than individual coaching/counseling after seeing the response on this post) - I'd love to quiz you (or anyone else interested) about the topics you'd most like to see covered for making your life better, easier, and more successful when doing start-ups. If you're interested, email me - shannon dot friedman at positivevector dot com. I have a ton of information I've collected through that program and other sources already, so I'm trying to figure out which pieces are highest impact to focus on for this crowd.
3moocow1452
Was going to make this it's own post, but what about a micro job placement center? A Job-Starter? Based of AltonSun's reverse Kickstarter, this would be more of a converse Kickstarter or something on par with Craigslist or Fiverr, where people can be sign up to be notified about opportunities for PayPal cash, gift cards, or equivalent wealth for work done that they are skilled in. Unlike Amazon's Mechanical Turk, this would allow for a semi-sustainable income through bigger job prizes, and more variety of work then "transcribe this" or "take data from here to there" for pennies on the dollar, where the jobs can come to you and are further incentivized through gamification or whatnot in the name of prioritization. Maybe I'm asking for too much for nothing, but it is crazy insane hard to find a job where I live, let alone one that won't take a crap on you for minimum wage and you can easily be replaced as a crap receptacle by someone more agreeable. Maybe take it in a different direction, something like Wealthy Affiliate where you can get the resources to self start, but instead of paying per month and letting it fall into Gym Membership Stagnation, make a bootable usb or an app on your phone that locks you into better productivity habits and out of bad habits, where you can pay your own bills, and toss away the key. About anyone who procrastinates has a market in that, either to make better use of their time, or to bully and coach people who aren't.