All of cesiumquail's Comments + Replies

Cool! I’m going to add my thoughts here, but I’m no authority so feel free to ignore and do whatever feels best.

Waking up early is fine as long as you’re also going to bed early. Chronic sleep deprivation is bad.

If you’re studying CS, give special attention to machine learning and the current AI landscape. It’s hard to predict what AI will look like in five years, but it’s the most important thing to be tracking.

If learning Quenya is fun and intrinsically rewarding, then that’s great, but if you’re doing it for practical reasons there are probably more eff... (read more)

Many people think of the jhanas as states of high energy absorption into an object of concentration, but I think of them in kind of the opposite way. I see the jhanas as the mental processes that make up conscious experience quieting down and settling into inactivity.

In the first jhana, the heavy sensations of stress and emotional burden relax into the lighter sensations of excitement and joy. (You can imagine rocks breaking up into pebbles, which then break up into sand.) The intensity of the first jhana varies depending on how heavy the emotional burden ... (read more)

My prediction is that if humanity survives, it will cling onto suffering in each context only until its meaning and profundity is sufficiently recreated by other means.

Intense pain will go first, then annoying and inconvenient pain, then distracting pain, and gradually people will adjust to higher valence landscapes until the whole spectrum is above our current default line.

In fact, it might not be that difficult a transition. Even today many people spend hours a day browsing social media, watching YouTube videos, playing video games, or meditating, all in the pursuit of higher valence. Legal prohibitions might turn out to be the main force slowing down the eradication of suffering from daily life.

Answer by cesiumquail85

Q: How to cope with the possibility of immense suffering?

I want to address the psychological aspect first, because at the start you say “I've been stuck on s-risks for over a month now. My life has been turned upside down since I first learned about this subject.”

The most helpful emotional state for thinking about this is calm, sober, lucid, and patient. If you rush to conclusions based on anxiety, you’ll probably get the wrong answer.

Although immense suffering is possible, your body is reacting to that possibility as if it were a physical threat in your i... (read more)

2Nisan
Huh, that's Epicurus's argument against fearing death. But while Epicurus assumed there is no afterlife, you're using it to argue there is one!
3Damilo
Thank you for your excellent reply. Indeed, I tend to think about the situation in a rather anxious way, which is what I'm trying to work on. I had already thought a certain way about the "roll of the dice", but it seems clearer to me now. That's helpful.

Do you have any advice on how to avoid triggering a psychotic episode? My understanding is that long hours of meditation, drugs, and sleep deprivation all make psychosis more likely.

5lsusr
I'm not a doctor, but it is my understanding that meditation, drugs and sleep deprivation all make psychosis more likely. There's this idea that long hours of meditation can trigger a psychotic episode but that short sessions don't. While it is true that longer hours carry higher risk, I rarely meditated even one full hour in a single day. I have meditated three hours in one day only once, and that was long after the events in this narrative. For me, psychosis happened because I entered wild territory before I had cultivated the wisdom to navigate it safely. I think what really matters is altered states of consciousness + insight, relative to wisdom. How long it takes to cultivate concentration, insight and wisdom varies wildly from person to person. The most surefire way to avoid meditation-induced psychosis is to not meditate at all. If you do meditate, I've heard doing more metta and samatha relative to vipassana and kasina reduces the risk of frying yourself. So does going slow, taking it easy, and integrating the insights gradually. Joining a healthy non-culty well-established community of traditional practitioners probably helps too. If you do notice you're going off the rails, then stop meditating and do something mindless instead, like going for a run or playing addictive videogames. Finally, if none of that works and you notice yourself continue losing your grip on reality, don't do anything drastic. Just act normal until you re-stabilize. You can integrate the insights after you've re-grounded yourself.

You're asking for flaws in the idea, but more often posts are downvoted for being confusing, boring, or just not particularly helpful for people who use this site.

If you go to “all posts” and sort by top weekly, you can see the kind of posts that get the most upvotes and the kind that get the most downvotes. It’s something you build up a sense for over time.

Also, I hope you won’t worry about it too much. People were downvoting the post, not you as a person. You can always analyze more top posts and try again.

Some feedback on this post:

  1. People here already k
... (read more)
1milanrosko
"You're asking for flaws in the idea, but more often posts are downvoted for being confusing, boring, or just not particularly helpful for people who use this site." Well said.

I think the standard messages are actually more energy efficient. Bad things happen, usually people are fine, but sometimes they need support and these messages signal that support is available. If you’re fine, they’re slightly annoying, but if you’re not fine, they’re helpful.

Your suggested approach actually requires more effort from both people in a typical case. If I were fine, I would rather receive “If you need to talk to someone, I’m here for you” than “What’s that like?” because I could answer the first message with an easy cliche, but I would have ... (read more)

1Jonathan Moregård
See my response to mako yass :)

In his method, I think the happiness of the first few Jhanas is not caused by prediction error directly, but rather indirectly through the activation of the reward circuitry. So while the method involves creating some amount of prediction error, the ultimate result is less overall prediction error, because the reward neurotransmitters bring the experiential world closer to the ideal.

After the first three Jhanas, the reward circuitry is less relevant and you start to reduce overall prediction error through other means, by allowing attention to let go of asp... (read more)

I would say the warm shower causes less prediction error than the cold shower because it’s less shocking to the body, but there’s still a very subtle amount of discomfort which is hidden under all the positive feelings. The level of discomfort I’m talking about is very slight, but you would notice it if there was nothing else occupying your attention. I don’t mean to say it causes negative emotions. It’s more like the discomfort of imagining an unsatisfying shape, or watching a video at slightly lower resolution. If you compare any activity to deep sleep o... (read more)

Thank you for writing this! I’ve been curious about this exact intersection of topics, so I’m glad to see such a clear analysis.

My understanding of your framework is that Vipassana reduces suffering by training the mind to observe sensations without craving or aversion, which is to say it reduces unnecessary prediction error by training the mind not to compare reality to what is not the case. An accomplished meditator can therefore quickly dissipate stress by letting go of priors that would otherwise cause continued prediction error. I think this is a real... (read more)

1lillybaeum
How do you feel about Bayeslord's description of Jhana meditation being a positive form of prediction error, creating a sort of feedback loop of bliss? https://open.substack.com/pub/bayeslord/p/a-simple-mechanistic-theory-of-jhanas?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=34hoq
3Amarko
I disagree that all prediction error equates to suffering. When you step into a warm shower you experience prediction error just as much as if you step into a cold shower, but I don't think the initial experience of a warm shower contains any discomfort for most people, whereas I expect the cold shower usually does. Furthermore, far more prediction error is experienced in life than suffering. Simply going for a walk leads to a continuous stream of prediction error, most of which people feel pretty neutral about.

Nice, these are interesting descriptions!

The inertia metaphor for depression is interesting because dopamine is associated with both mood and movement. So you see dopamine deficiency in mood disorders like depression and movement disorders like Parkinson's disease or restless leg syndrome. When you’re depressed and it takes enormous effort to move each muscle, that might be your brain searching for sources of dopamine because the usual sources aren’t working.

I’ve personally had the experience of lying motionless on my bed because I felt like I had exhauste... (read more)

1Sable
Thanks for sharing! I definitely like Scott's take on depression being a trapped prior. When I'm depressed, sometimes a friend will make me go do stuff anyway and it usually makes me feel better, although I never expect it to make me feel better. Even when I know that it will. Brains are weird.