All of Connor_Flexman's Comments + Replies

Re rockets, I might be misunderstanding, but I’m not sure why you’re imagining doubling the number of molecules. Isn’t the idea that you hold molecules constant and covalent energy constant, then reduce mass to increase velocity? Might be worth disambiguating your comparator here: I imagine we agree that light hydrogen would be better than heavy hydrogen, but perhaps you’re wondering about kerosene?

2Thomas Kwa
The phenomenon I'm confused about is that changing the mixture ratio can cause the total energy per unit mass released by the fuel and oxidizer to decrease, but the Isp to increase.

I'm aware this is kind of hard to justify, but I'm basically an apologist on this one. I think he was mostly right and just exaggerated the measurable magnitude. It's just so damn hard to come up with examples that are not only true and illustrative and compelling and not confusing, but also very measurably true. I do wish he had provided a more justifiable core example and overstated the result less, but I do basically the same when I'm trying to make a point. On my list of metrics I think he satisficed basically fine—I can't think of any better examples ... (read more)

Clinton's campaign was against Bush, so they were throwing these words back at him.

A Few Lessons from Dominic Cummings on Politics

Barbell model of voters (or "delusion of the centre"), where many in the electorate are far to the left of politicians on white collar crime and higher taxes on the rich but far to the right of politicians on violent crime, anti-terrorism, and immigration. 

You want to be empirical in a way almost all in politics aren't: run tons of focus groups and really listen to how your voters think, not just what policies they want.

Use a best-in-class data model. Polls naturally swing all over, much polling is bad; i... (read more)

3TAG
"Read my lips, no new taxes" was G.H.W. Bush.

Note that
A) zooming in on most city hubs will find you monetary concentrations like this, e.g. Manhattan has a GDP pc of $370k
B) I have never actually heard anyone argue that making the city richer is the path to solving homelessness despite living there for a long time, so suspect this might be an error—are you conflating this with deregulating the housing market? Or do people actually argue somewhere that more money would solve homelessness?

~same. I use a Kinesis Freestyle with 20" cord, that finally ~fixed my wrists after 4 years, and I'm extremely excited for the Kinesis Advantage360 coming out some time this year.

I think my current expectation of risk reduction from antigen tests is more like 20-60% than <10%, but I'll also note that it matters a lot what your population is. In Elizabeth's social circle my guess is that most people aren't coming to parties if they've had any suspected positive contact, have any weak symptoms, etc, such that there's a strong selection effect screening out the clearly-positive people. (Or like, imagine everyone with these risk factors takes an antigen test anyways—then requiring tests doesn't add anything.)

I haven't read this whol... (read more)

1Tornus
That all makes complete sense. And yes, the specifics of the population make a huge difference. Honestly, I think that accounts for the breadth of my estimate range more than uncertainty about abstract test performance does.

Reminder that US is crossing 50% BA.2 in the next few days, CA and NY have started to uptick, so probably in 4 weeks it will be a serious wave peaking in like 6-8ish weeks. Plan accordingly!

(So ~4 weeks where things are fineish, then ~7 weeks where rates are higher, then 4 weeks to come back down. I.e. plan for May and June to have lots of COVID, and potential restrictions to continue into July.)

I at least partially agree with this. I'm less interested in virtue signaling per se than I am in using it as a brief exploration to highlight a common misconception about how signaling works. Plausibly virtue signaling isn't the clearest example of this, but I do think it's a pretty good case of the broader point: people tend to talk about signals mostly when they are deficient in various ways, but then that tarnish rubs off onto all signaling universally. I think it's really important that signals are extremely good in general, except ones that are dumb because they're costly to implement or goodharted or what-have-you.  This really does not come through when people talk about signaling. 

2Dagon
Ah, I might use education vs IQ as an example - education is easier for smarter people to acquire.  Of course, a lot of signaling examples are INTENTIONALLY focused on cost - the classic peacock tail is about signaling that the male is fit enough to spend that much energy on it's tail.  This is a perfect signal - the cost IS the signal, and the ability to undertake that cost is the value being signaled.

Remember remember remember, costly signaling is supposed to be about cost-to-fake, not cost-burnt-to-signal. It is not like Bitcoin. If you own an original Picasso, it is costless to show that you own it, but very costly for someone to fake owning it (have to commission an elaborate copy).

“Virtue signaling” should be thought of with this in mind. If you or someone else is frowning upon a virtue signal, that’s not because of the inherent structure of signaling. It means either it’s a corrupted signal, they’re being annoying with their signal, or it’s not a ... (read more)

2Dagon
I think most of the opprobrium about virtue signaling (or at least the part I object to) is not about costliness of signal.  It's about the goodhearting of virtue.  Caring about those topics and most public actions related to them is NOT a virtue in my book.  This is annoying regardless of whether someone actually cares, or they expend effort to pretend to care.

Mimesis has re-revealed its awesome and godly power to me over the last few months. Not Girardian mimesis, but hominid mimesis. Best way to do almost anything is to literally copy others, especially the best people but really the triangulation between any few people will do. Don’t know how to write an email? Copy it from an email you received. Don't know how to do any chore, cooking, dance, etc? Just look it up on youtube. This is a long ways from Connor of 2018, who fastidiously avoided watching youtube videos of poi so I could explore it all on my own fo... (read more)

3Pattern
Not sure where that is but, pure imitation, and no innovation does seem to have downsides yes. (Aside from incomplete copying, can mean stuff degrades over time.) That doesn't mean it isn't a useful tool. There are other tools as well. Knowledge isn't always explicit, and doesn't have to be, but there are benefits to making things more explicit if that knowledge is used. Yeah...unless you acquire all the (explicit) knowledge yourself - approaches that are not imitation will still draw on other's knowledge and work. (That doesn't mean all of it will be right, easy to use, or useful.)

I think I basically mean it straightforwardly. In my mind it is pretty similar to other moral injunctions like "tell the truth" or "speak up for the bullied"—it is important to resolve to do it ahead of time, because in the moment it might be quite hard and costly to do so. So if someone were to start talking about how actually the bullied need to learn to stick up for themselves, etc etc, I would want to remind myself and others that while this is true, it shouldn't change my moral resolution to stand up to bullying. (It's perfectly fine for people to dis... (read more)

There are plenty of things you should still resolve to do. You don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater by maintaining maximum irresolution so you'll never have difficulty changing your mind. Just change your mind when important evidence comes in—and in this case, I'm trying to point out that it is not important evidence against internalizing externalities. (It is evidence against levying the full externality cost and failing to try mitigating trades that reduce that externality cost.)

1Adam Selker
That makes sense.  I guess I'm mostly reacting to the last sentence, which adds a moral aspect. (I'm also not 100% sure how much the last sentence is a joke, or deliberate exaggeration?)

Given that serial interval is a very effective way to amplify an already-high R0 to great evolutionary advantage, and common colds/flu etc all have developed serial interval of more like 1-2 days showing there's plenty of room for COVID to climb in this regard, I would expect lots of new dominant strains to show shortened serial interval regardless of heritage.

Not sure if there's publication bias or measurement bias here but the first link on google shows a study estimating Omicron serial interval at 2.2 days in South Korea.

Ah, good point.

The main reason I don't automatically make a huge adjustment for this is that it seemed that there were still ~25% false negatives at peak contagiousness by PCR according to some studies. And 40% false negatives a few days later. All sort of things are possible, like that these studies included many asymptomatic and acontagious cases, but having seen anecdotal corroboration of this phenomenon, I'm inclined to think something weird is going on.

But I should give some weight to it though—perhaps 2x less ineffective when compared to contagiousness, so maybe 60% efficacy for rapid and 75% for PCR?

Good point re the urban centers, was pretty dumb of me to forget to adjust for that. I've added two ETAs to the post to account for this.

7juliawise
And now omicron is at 74% of US cases! 

I can't confirm you didn't talk about this, but the only thing of importance I haven't seen you mention in these is that the serial interval might be much smaller (eg as mentioned here), so that R0 and number of secondary infections is not so vastly higher even as we see incredibly fast doubling times. I think people don't realize how much this effect played a part in Delta's containability, even while Delta overtook other variants very quickly and it seemed pretty concerning at the beginning. 

Specifically, if Omicron is tearing through vaccinated pop... (read more)

4Zvi
I haven't talked about it recently, I did discuss it with regard to Delta, whose interval was shorter than the original strain. It would be surprising for Omicron, which didn't come from Delta, to be faster even than Delta, but perhaps it is possible. It would take a lot of this to be enough, but it would certainly help.

I think you're right that the initial blog post is repeatedly making a big mistake: running into a values difference and using the mood argument as evidence against the position.

I think to turn this into a useful heuristic, the patch is to reverse the order of operations. If you go from Noticing Missing Mood -> Be Suspicious you can easily used this to tar your political opposition. But if you go from Intuition of Suspicion -> Look for Missing Mood, it can be a highly productive heuristic for determining what seems to be wrong with someone’s argument... (read more)

Yes, it definitely will, and yes that will be unacceptable. Will that be because of vaccinated scrupulous LessWrong-reading mask-wearing 30yos during the holidays? No. That will contribute much less harm-to-benefit than many, many other actions.

First, I think we are all still pretty far from living as normal. Many things in our past lives would have been more than 1k microcovids.

Second, even the most informal versions of test and trace (telling your friends if you develop any symptoms, so they can tell their friends) can significantly reduce transmission rate.

Third, all this is in the context of the holidays. Fourth, 30yos are not the only segment of society. Fifth, the health care system is not yet close to capacity in almost all places (if your local hospitals are overwhelmed, obviously do not act normally). Etc

Ah, stocking up on $2 tests would be awesome! That I would certainly endorse.

My reasoning on antigen false negatives is coming from a few lines of evidence. Perhaps I can share some later. But in short, 1) lots of studies have found much higher than average false negative rates, so results are high-variance/heterogeneous 2) my anecdotal counts of people around me concords with the above studies 3) my prior is fairly high on studies overestimating the efficacy of tests, based on BOTH lab conditions being extra controlled and on scientists being biased towar... (read more)

Regarding timing, I think you want to test the day of. The day before is probably fine too. But Delta seemed like it was progressing fast enough that a 1-day lag would lose you a large chunk of the effectiveness.

Regarding mentioning testing in general—I think it helps a little but not enough to matter in most cases. I'm under the impression that PCR tests have a false negative rate of about 50% and antigen tests 70%, which basically translates into risk of .5x and .7x for an event. But if you're home for the holidays, you'd have to keep testing repeatedly ... (read more)

2KatjaGrace
I thought rapid tests were generally considered to have a much lower false negative rate for detecting contagiousness, though they often miss people who are infected but not yet contagious. I forget why I think this, and haven't been following possible updates on this story, but is that different from your impression? (Here's one place I think saying this, for instance: https://www.rapidtests.org/blog/antigen-tests-as-contagiousness-tests) On this story, rapid tests immediately before an event would reduce overall risk by a lot.
1Tobias H
Thank you! The general reasoning makes sense to me.  This Cochrane review finds a false negative for asymptomatic individuals of 42% with antigen tests – which were not self-tests. Is your rate significantly higher because you're thinking of self-administered antigen tests? In many European countries, you can get antigen self-tests for about $2-4 a piece, this might make a testing scheme more cost-effective.

Using a counterfactual of "getting COVID a few years later and you balance out" is certainly tempting, but I don't think that's really how it would go down. Based on how vaccine efficacy wanes, reinfections occur, and new variants are introduced, my guess is that you lose all your immunity and more within 2 years, plus in the next decade we probably will develop increasingly effective drugs against it. Hard to sum everything up but my guess is that getting COVID causes a benefit that is less than half the badness. Probably I should make a best guess here and add it at some point in time but this is the type of factor of <2 that occasionally pop up on either side that I typically ignore.

But also you might lose less than two days. I think two days in expectation is actually quite conservative and it's actually more like 1 day lost in expectation

Oh no, I only meant to recommend masks in the lead-up to the gathering, not the actual gathering itself. You are absolutely right and I've edited to make this clear.

(In a P/E ratio, the "earnings" is profit, which in Cyc's case is probably negative. Gwern is using a P/S ratio, price to sales where sales=revenue, since these are usually used for startups since they're scaling and earnings are still negative. 5 seems reasonable because, while P/S can go much higher for startups rapidly scaling, Cyc doesn't seem to be rapidly scaling.)

gwern110

I thought I was being generous by applying what several articles/blog posts told me was a fairly typical multiplier for small private businesses: I can't think offhand of an 'AI startup' (are you still a 'startup' if you are 26 years old and going nowhere fast?) I'd rather own less than a big knowledge base and inference engine dating from the '80s. In any case, if you believe the multiplier should be much bigger than 5x, then that makes buying look all the worse.

Hopefully my comment above makes this more clear now, but the 37% is supposed to imply the extremely strong pricing power / oligopoly position / lack of competition and that the true cost of production is more like 1-10% than 63% of their revenue. Perhaps I should have made this more clear. 

Anyways, I think this is in fact a major aspect of my true objection; if there were a bunch of small journals of academics competing and universities couldn't afford them, it would be less obvious the first step to take.

Hopefully also clear now: I'm not trying to u... (read more)

What I meant here was not that the problem was a 37% surcharge, it was that the problems were all the ones associated with a 37% OPM oligopoly in science.

First, Viliam had the right idea in the comment below—the costs rise to meet the revenue, and much of the "expenses" are going to be useless administrative bloat in a thousand different ways. The non-profit version could be run at about literally 1000x less cost: https://twitter.com/jeremyphoward/status/1219365213201264640.

But again, the problem isn't so much the money wasted as the practices implied. To ... (read more)

That issue is a good point; I think one variant that gets around it is one focused on pre-prints. As I understand it, some journals allow pre-prints and others don't. This basically fixes the problem for all fields with a pre-print server.

1rossry
What's the breakdown of fields by whether they have a pre-print server or not? (Which of the ones most important to human progress are in the good state?) I'm most familiar with economics, where there's no server, but there's a universally-journal-respected right to publish the pre-print on your personal site, which ends up in the "it's free if you Google for it" equilibrium in practice.

Money just isn't really a priority/bottleneck on this so nowhere is set up to take donations, except generic Sci-Hub. And that actually might be strategically bad at the moment because Elsevier, like Wormtongue himself, is claiming in the lawsuit that Sci-Hub has commercialized its works through the donations it accepts. Best to have that number stay low.

Yeah, ideally would have lampshaded this more. My bad.

The part that gets extra complex is that I personally think ~2/3+ of people who say totalization is fine for them are in fact wrong and are missing out on tons of subtle things that you don't notice until longer-term. But obviously the mostly likely thing is that I'm wrong about this. Hard to tell either way. I'd like to point this out more somehow so I can find out, but I'd sort of hoped my original comment would make things click for people without further time. I suppose I'll have to think about how to broach this further.

I agree with most of this point. I've added an ETA to the original to reflect this. My quibble (that I think is actually important) is that I think it should be less of a tradeoff and more of an {each person does the thing that is right for them}. 

5Duncan Sabien (Deactivated)
Endorsed, but that means when we're talking about setting group norms and community standards, what we're really shooting for is stuff that makes all the options available to everyone, and which helps people figure out what would be good for them as individuals. Where one attractor near what you were proposing (i.e. not what you were proposing but what people might hear in your proposal, or what your proposal might amount to in practice) is "new way good, old way bad." Instead of "old way insufficient, new way more all-encompassing and cosmopolitan."

(I would not take this modus tollens, I don't think the "community" is even close to fundamentally bad, I just think some serious reforms are in order for some of the culture that we let younger people build here.)

4Said Achmiz
Indeed, I did not suspect that you would—but (I conjecture?) you also do not agree with Rob’s characterizations of the consequences of your points. It’s one who agrees with Rob’s positive take, but opposes his normative views on the community, that would take the other logical branch here.

But the "community" should not be totalizing.

(Also, I think rationality should still be less totalizing than many people take it to be, because a lot of people replace common sense with rationality. Instead one should totalize themselves very slowly, over years, watching for all sorts of mis-steps and mistakes, and merge their past life with their new life. Sure, rationality will eventually pervade your thinking, but that doesn't mean at age 22 you throw out all of society's wisdom and roll your own.)

8Said Achmiz
Reservationism is the proper antidote to the (prematurely) totalizing nature of rationality. That is: take whatever rationality tells you, and judge it with your own existing common sense, practical reason, and understanding of the world. Reject whatever seems to you to be unreasonable. Take on whatever seems to you to be right and proper. Excise or replace existing parts of your epistemology and worldview only when it genuinely seems to you that those parts are dysfunctional or incorrect, regardless of what the rationality you encounter is telling you about them. (Don’t take this quick summary as a substitute for reading the linked essay; read it yourself, judge it for yourself.) Note, by the way, that rationality—as taught in the Sequences—already recommends this! If anyone fails to approach the practice of rationality in this proper way, they are failing to do that which we have explicitly been told to do! If your rationality is “prematurely totalizing”, then you’re doing it wrong. Consider also how many times we have heard a version of this: “When I read the Sequences, the ideas found therein seemed so obvious—like they’d put into words things I’ve always somehow known or thought, but had never been able to formulate so clearly and concisely!”. This is not a coincidence! If you learn of a “rationality”-related idea, and it seems to you to be obviously correct, such that you find that not only is it obvious that you should integrate it into your worldview, but indeed that you’ve already integrated it (so naturally and perfectly does it fit)—well, good! But if you encounter an idea that is strange, and counterintuitive, then examine it well, before you rush to integrate it; examine it with your existing reason—which will necessarily include all the “rationality” that you have already carefully and prudently integrated. (And this, too, we have already been told.)

Ah yeah, I should have thought more about what you meant there. Sorry. I'm still not sure I agree though—I feel like the public can be convinced of all sorts of things. 

I do think growth may end up being decent evidence. I guess I'm trying to point at why I might be so agnostic without going through a 10-paragraph essay explicitly stating a bunch of scenarios.

So for example, I think people are fairly unconcerned about whether they have a 20% versus a 30% GDP growth over the next 15 years, but rightly concerned about whether there's then a pandemic tha... (read more)

I want to bring up a concept I found very useful for thinking about how to become less susceptible to these sorts of things.

(NB that while I don't agree with much of the criticism here, I do think "the community" does modestly increase psychosis risk, and the Ziz and Vassar bubbles do so to extraordinary degrees. I also think there's a bunch of low-hanging fruit here, so I'd like us to take this seriously and get psychosis risk lower than baseline.)

(ETA because people bring this up in the comments: law of equal and opposite advice applies. Many people seem... (read more)

4Unreal
I like everything you say here. Hear hear.  I resonate as someone who wanted to 'totalize' themselves when I lived in the Bay Area rationalist scene. One hint as to why: I have felt, from a young age, compelled towards being one of the elite. I don't think this is the case for most rationalists or anything, but noting my own personal motivation in case this helps anyone introspect on their own motivations more readily. It was important for my identity / ego to be "one of the top / best people" and to associate with the best people. I had a natural way of dismissing anyone I thought was "below" my threshold of worthiness—I basically "didn't think about them" and had no room in my brain for them. (I recognize the problematic-ness of that now? Like these kinds of thoughts lead to genocide, exploitation, runaway power, slavery, and a bunch of other horrible things. As such, I now find this 'way of seeing' morally repulsive.) The whole rationality game was of egoic interest to me, because it seemed like a clear and even correct way of distinguishing the elite from the non-elite. Obviously Eliezer and Anna and others were just better than other people and better at thinking which is hugely important obviously and AI risk is something that most people don't take seriously oh my god what is wrong with most people ahhh we're all gonna die. (I didn't really think thoughts like this or feel this way. But it would take more for me to give an accurate representation so I settled for a caricature. I hope you're more charitable to your own insides.)  When a foolish ego wants something like this, it basically does everything it can to immerse themselves in it, and while it's very motivating and good for learning, it is compelled towards totalization and will make foolish sacrifices. In the same way, perhaps, that young pretty Koreans sacrifice for the sake of becoming an idol in the kpop world.  MAPLE is like rehab for ego addicts. I find myself visiting my parents each year (

Regarding Eliezer's tweets, I think the issue is that he is joking about the "never stop screaming". He is using humor to point at a true fact, that it's really unfortunate how unreliable neural nets are, but he's not actually saying that if you study neural nets until you understand them then you will have a psychotic break and never stop screaming.

Not sure why you think domestic pressure / public agreement is strong evidence. Public pressure for all sorts of things seems hardly correlated with whether they're beneficial.

I think the strongest arguments for Brexit are pretty orthogonal to the economy. Things like "can the government react to crises on the order of weeks instead of months". I do think enough crises would give us data on this but I'm not even sure it will be reasonable to extract counterfactuals from several. Other reasons to do Brexit seem similarly hard to measure compared to myopic economic impact.

2Davidmanheim
I didn't say "domestic pressure / public agreement is strong evidence," I said that a reversal of the decision for those reasons would be strong evidence. And yes, I think that a majority of voters agreeing it was so much of a mistake that it is worth it to re-enter on materially worse terms, which it would need to be, would be a clear indication that the original decision was a bad one. And I'm not sure why you say that a change in the long term trajectory of growth is a myopic criteria. If the principal benefit is better ability to react to crises, given the variety of crises that occur and their frequency, that should be obvious over the course of years, not centuries, and would absolutely affect economic growth over the long term.

FWIW, I personally don't have much evidence to determine whether Brexit was good. Seems plausible to me that you're right that they now just have different bureaucratic downsides. I've read a few things about being able to make ARIA (UK version of ARPA) and some other things from 2019 that make me lean somewhat positive, but I'm extremely agnostic. I have a bunch of thoughts on quality of evidence here, but suffice it to say I am not sure whether we will ever get much Bayesian evidence on goodness or badness. So my interest in DC is relatively orthogonal to whether Brexit turns out to be object-level good or bad (even though ideally I would know this and be able to include it in my model of how much to believe his beliefs).

2Davidmanheim
I agree that evidence is weak, but I think it will be much clearer in the future whether it was a mistake - and the pathways for it to have been good are different than for it to have been bad. Two concrete things that would be strong evidence either way which we'd see in the next 5 years: - Significant divergence from previous economic trajectory that differs from changes in the EU. - UK choosing to rejoin the EU due to domestic pressure, or general public agreement that it was good. Perhaps more likely, we see a mix of evidence, and we conclude that like most complex policy decisions, it will take an additional decade or two for a consensus of economists and historians to  emerge so we clearly see what the impact was. That said, I would be very happy to bet at even odds about it resolving as a clear negative - albeit with a very long resolution time frame, needing a somewhat qualitative resolution criteria.

Oh awesome, you already made the important argument here. Thanks. I'll leave up my comment above saying similarly, though.

First, I already agreed this was true. But if you write about the urgent need for planning for biosecurity a year before a pandemic, quote a biosecurity report that mentions 8ish diseases, you cut a few from your block quote for concision, and then one of the 8 that you didn't specific use in your block quote (but which you were definitely writing about!) occurs in a global pandemic... I just think it's pretty reasonable to say "I wrote about this". I might not do it per se, but if a friend of mine did it, I wouldn't bat an eyelid. If a random acquaintance... (read more)

4ChristianKl
Besides that, there's the aspect that Cummings is a person who's heavily investigated by journalists. If that's one of the worst things someone can find, that shows good things.

Sorry, I deliberated for a while on whether to include it, but for a number of reasons decided I wanted to just ignore the politics-as-mindkiller and focus on everything else. Ideally I would have mentioned something about this, I just felt like addressing it in any respect would immediately lead to discussion about politics-as-mindkiller and not help. Also I didn't think this post would get much publicity. Still don't really regret it.

I will say though, here, I think >90% of the value I got from his writings was orthogonal to ideology-level politics. I... (read more)

2Davidmanheim
Thanks - that seems plausible. But again, I think not mentioning the obvious reason for people's distaste led to a clearly incorrect claim.

(Gove and Boris agreed in 2016 that Boris would be their push for PM, then at the last minute Gove withdrew his support and announced his own candidacy, splitting support, causing Boris to withdraw, and neither got PM. [1, 2] By a few years later, they seem to have mended things significantly.)

Many people have brought this up to me and I think it's extremely misleading. Basically, he wrote this blog post about the dangers of possible pandemics that governments weren't taking seriously, and heavily rested on giant block quotes from a good source, as he often does. In the block quote he included sections on like 4/8 of the pathogens they warned about, separated by ellipses. After the pandemic he went back and added to his block quote the section on coronaviruses specifically, to show that bio-risk people were already warning about this BEFORE it h... (read more)

In a press conference, he claims. "Last year I wrote about the possible threat of coronaviruses and the urgent need for planning," I am failing to find mention of coronavirus in that original. I also note https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/26/dominic-cummings-says-he-did-not-tell-whole-truth-about-journeys-to-durham-barnard-castle.

I remain unconvinced that he is "extremely committed to truth-seeking".

Also, any recs on dev econ textbooks?

Yes, they've made it very clear that that's the reasoning, and I am saying I disagree.

A) I still think they are not correct (long evidence below)
B) Ct values are clearly somewhat useful, and the question is how much—and I do not think the public health comms apparatus should stifle somewhat-useful medical information reaching patients or doctors just because I might be misled. That's just way too paternalistic.

As to why I think they're wrong, I'll cross-post from my fb thread against the specific pdf linked in op, though all other arguments seem isomorphic... (read more)

Another sad regulation-induced (and likely public health comms-reinforced) inadequacy: we don't report Ct values on PCR tests. Ct value stands for cycle threshold, which means how many cycles a PCR amp has to do before the virus is detected. So, it directly measures viral load. But it isn't reported to us on tests for some reason: here's an example document saying why it shouldn't be reported to patients or used to help them forecast progression. Imo a very bad and unnecessary decision.

0ChristianKl
Basically the reasoning is that given the current tests highly variable Ct values get produced that don't do a good job at directly measuring viral load. If that's the case and people like you think it would do that, not giving you the value to avoid misleading you seems reasonable. 

Another cool data point! I found a paper from Singapore, Jul 2020, testing tear swabs but incidentally giving a bunch of PCR tests too. I'm much more likely to trust a paper that gives PCR tests incidentally, rather than is directly testing their effectiveness with researcher bias toward better results. By counting up the squares by hand, this paper shows 24/108 PCR tests came back negative if I counted correctly: that's 22% false negative rate (FNR).

Now, for adjustments: 

  • First, these patients were recruited from a hospital. So they obviously have muc
... (read more)
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