All of David_Rotor's Comments + Replies

It looks like 5 November is the day we'll be arriving in Melbourne, so unfortunately I won't attend this meetup.

Perhaps the next one.

Cheers,

David

Patrick,

I've just accepted a role in Melbourne. I won't be there until November, but would be interested after we arrive.

Cheers,

David

0Patrick
Good to hear, I'll see you at the next one.

Perhaps my error ... I didn't read anything in Bond's article that suggested he was only referring to fans of fiction and movies. Are there differences between otaku and tifosi? What are they?

0William
Bond's article was mostly referring to fans of fiction and movies, but as someone who has spent time on fora related to both sports fandom and anime fandom, I can safely say they're very similar. You see the same sort of memetics in both--sports message boards frequently fill up with people "quoting"(I don't think this is the best word) the chants made in the stadium itself, much like you'll often see anime-related boards fill up with people quoting famous lines from certain series. You see the same sort of provincialism in both--"If you're a fan of X, you're not allowed to be a fan of Y, and vice versa" is a common refrain in certain tvtropes pages about Fan Dumb, and that's also pretty much the definition of a sports rivalry. And there's also the internecine stuff, where you have endless debates over the worth of a player or the motivations of a character. So yeah, I'd say fandom is universal.

I'd say that the level of fanaticism can be pretty high in many of the examples I used. F1 fans travel all over the world, dress up in funny costumes, and parade around carrying massive flags showing which team or driver they support. Google "Tifosi" for a flavour.

Lego fans do things like build this 46' self-supporting bridge http://gizmodo.com/5272536/46+foot-long-self+supporting-lego-bridge-to-set-new-world-record.

Each of the other have their own version of fanatic behaviour ... my favourite for sheer lunatic fun remains the annual Bloomsday celebration of Joyce's Ulysses.

I'd suggest that Bond didn't restrict his comments to a degree of magnitude of fan base (or for that matter Eliezer with his reference to Vance's books).

But I'm quite willing to state that the fan base of F1, many who spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars of year to attend a single race, and which attracts a global viewing audience of some 50 million per race (1 billon over a season) surely is in the same magnitude of Star Trek.

Or take Playmobil, with something like 2.2 billion sets sold and an annual turnover of close to Euro 500M, and which has... (read more)

0Psychohistorian
You're almost definitely right. Though I'm curious, do these see the same level of Han-and-Leia-wedding-style fanaticism, or is it just that such levels of fanaticism for these things are normal enough that they don't make the news?

In the same vein as newerspeak's reference to Proust, how about Joyce fans and their annual bloomsday celebrations?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloomsday

Changing genres, I believe all of these references* have both fans and "conventions", and anyone would be hard-pressed to call any of them "bad" or flawed:

Architecture: Frank Lloyd Wright

Jazz: Davis, Coltrane, Peterson, Brubeck

Toys: Lego, Barbie, and Play Mobil

Military aircraft: P51 Mustang

Racing: Volvo Ocean Racing, F1, World Rally, MotoGP

Cars: 1955 Gullwing, 1965 Shelby Cobra, Enzo ... (read more)

1ShardPhoenix
A lot of people are critical of F1 for various reasons. At any rate it seems necessary to establish exactly what constitutes a true "fandom".
0AndySimpson
This seems to broaden the discussion considerably from works of art with fandoms to anything with a following. I think you'll agree that there's a noticeable difference between the attitude of otaku toward anime and F1 followers toward F1 cars and races.
2Psychohistorian
I don't think many people would be hard pressed to call Barbie flawed. I can't speak for most of the others you've cited (though the fact that I am not aware they have fanatic fanbases suggests they're several orders of magnitude below, say, Star Trek).
* Handle: David_Rotor
* Name: David
* Location: Ottawa, Canada
* Age: 44
* Gender: Male
* Education: MSc
* Occupation: Procurement, Business Development

I started following this site when it was introduced on Overcoming Bias. I came across OB while doing some refresher work on statistical analysis, more particularly how I could help some clients who were struggling with how to use statistical analysis to make better decisions - or in other words they were ignoring data and going with a gut feel bias. I stuck around because I found the conversations inter... (read more)

0MBlume
Oddly enough, I figured out all three at different times. The Easter Bunny was an obvious absurdity from the start, but I told myself stories about how SC might exist for years.

Another suggestion ... design it as a tri-fold 11X17 page. 10,000 four colour glossy paper for about $1100 online. This format "stacks very nicely. Again, should be cheaper locally.

http://www.digitalroom.com/Trifold-Brochure-Printing.html

1Paul Crowley
The current presentation uses 16 A6 pages ie 0.25 m^2 of page area, so that's about the same area as both sides of one 11x17 page. From that link, the lowest I can get the price for a run of 10,000 is about 17.5¢ each; colour on the outside is mandatory, and on the inside is free.

I found more than one ... this one was still up on my browser. Look for "booklet" rather than pamplet. Pamphlets are generally single folded pages.

http://www.printplace.com/printing/booklet-printing.aspx

2Eliezer Yudkowsky
Ah. Well, I need 16 pages total (which can be cover + 12 if I can print the inside cover) and that worked out here to around $2K/10,000 with saddle stitching (staple in the middle); I'm not sure if that ends up lying flat in large stacks.
1David_Rotor
Another suggestion ... design it as a tri-fold 11X17 page. 10,000 four colour glossy paper for about $1100 online. This format "stacks very nicely. Again, should be cheaper locally. http://www.digitalroom.com/Trifold-Brochure-Printing.html

Costs can vary considerably between different printers for the same job. Here are some of the variables that go into an estimate you'll get:

  1. Design. Standard paper sizes with no cutting or trimming is less expensive.
  2. Utilization. If the printer has excess capacity, you can expect a lower cost
  3. Delivery time. Related to utilization, the longer you can wait for your job, the more opportunity the printer has to schedule it to maximize his utilization.
  4. Materials. More colours are more expensive. Heavier paper is more expensive. More than one type of pap
... (read more)
2Eliezer Yudkowsky
Can you include the link, please? Your google-fu must be stronger than mine.