All of davidkwca's Comments + Replies

Admittedly, I do not have much of an idea about Infinite Ethics, but it appeared to me that the problem was to a large extent about how to deal with an infinite number of agents on which you can define no measure/order so that you can discount utilities.

Right now, I don't see how this approach helps with that?

2bwest
The canonical problem in infinite ethics is to create a preference relation over [0,1]N which is in some sense "reasonable". That's what this approach does. For more background you can see this background article or my overview of the field.
To translate Graham's statement back to the FAI problem: In Eliezer's alignment talk, he discusses the value of solving a relaxed constraint version of the FAI problem by granting oneself unlimited computing power. Well, in the same way, the AGI problem can be seen as a relaxed constraint version of the FAI problem. One could argue that it's a waste of time to try to make a secure version of AGI Approach X if we don't even know if it's possible to build an AGI using AGI Approach X. (I don't agree with this view, but I don'
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2John_Maxwell
Maybe not, if you can keep your solution to AGI secret and suppress it if it turns out that there's no way to solve the alignment problem in your framework.

Doesn't this basically move the reference class tennis to the meta-level?

"Oh, in general I'm terrible at planning, but not in cases involving X, Y and Z!"

It seems reasonable that this is harder to do this on a meta-level, but do any of the other points you mention actually "solve" this problem?

3abramdemski
Valid question. I think the way I framed it may over-sell the solution -- there'll still be some problems of reference-class choice. But, you should move toward gears to try and resolve that. The way in which policy-level thinking improves the reference-class tennis is that you're not stopping at reference-class reasoning. You're trying to map the input-output relations involved. If you think you're terrible at planning, but not in cases X, Y, and Z, what mechanisms do you think lie behind that? You don't have to know in order to use the reference classes, but if you are feeling uncertain about the validity of the reference classes, digging down into causal details is likely a pretty good way to disambiguate. For example, maybe you find that you're tempted to say something very critical of someone (accuse them of lying), but you notice that you're in a position where you are socially incentivised to do so (everyone is criticising this person and you feel like joining in). However, you alse value honesty, and don't want to accuse them of lying unfairly. You don't think you're being dishonest with yourself about it, but you can remember other situations where you've joined in an group criticism and later realized you were unfair due to the social momentum. I think the reference-class reaction is to just downgrade your certainty, and maybe have a policy of not speaking up in those kinds of situations. This isn't a bad reaction, but it can be seen as a sort of epistemic learned helplessness. "I've been irrational in this sort of situation, therefore I'm incapable of being rational in this sort of situation." You might end up generally uncomfortable with this sort of social situation and feeling like you don't know how to handle it well. So, another reaction, which might be better in the long-term, would be to take a look at your thinking process. "What makes me think they're a liar? Wow, I'm not working on much evidence here. There are all kinds of alternative expl

Why do you expect prediction markets to be more useful for this than evidence-based methods which take into account interactions between the practitioner's characteristics and whatever method they are using?

3ChristianKl
I'm not advocating what Hanson calls prediction-markets. I'm advocating a different setup that's described in the linked article. The core problem is that even if it would be possible in a perfect world to run evidence-based studies to gather the knowledge in the present system there are no economic incentives for anybody to run the required studies in a way that's likely to lead to effective clinical predictions. There's no accountability that pushes clinical trial design in a way that leads to clear clinical benefits. The incentives are mostly about overstating the effect of the intervention that's studied. Even if there would be a sincere attempt at running the required studies it would be much more expensive than the way we currently study interventions and that means we are likely to study less interventions and thereby slowing down innovation by making the invention of new interventions more costly.

Is your point that there should be no formal policy in the first place?

Once you do have such a formal policy, the best of judgment doesn't necessarily help you if you can't circumvent the constraints set by these policies.

It seems to me that to a large extent impressions can be framed in terms of vague predictive statements with no explicit probabilistic or causal content, influenced much more by external factors than reasoned beliefs.

  • "He seemed nice" corresponds to "X% chance that if I met him more often, we would continue getting along well".

  • "That sounds crazy" corresponds to "I can't really tell you why but I find that rather improbable".

If I am right about this, the first and main step would be lto earn how to turn impressio

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But on the other hand, consequentialism is particularly prone to value misalignment. In order to systematize human preferences or human happiness, it requires a metric; in introducing a metric, it risks optimizing the metric itself over the actual preferences and happiness.

Yes, in consequentialism you try to figure out what values you should have, and your attempts at doing better might lead you down the Moral Landscape rather than up toward a local maximum.

But what are the alternatives? In deontology you try to follow a bunch of rules in the hope that t

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