Programming is one of them. Even after doing it for decades, people are still as consciously engaged in it as they did in the beginning.
My experience disagrees with this. After about 20 years of experience with C/C++, I have internalized many of the aspects of programming in this language, which allows me to write complex software factors of magnitude faster than 20 years ago, and factors of magnitude more safely.
I notice how much I have internalized when I switch to a different language that isn't "my own", and find myself immediately bogged...
It doesn't only work for me. It's how most people I know, who are into fitness, manage their weight. The "Calories In" part is not eating too much. The "Calories Out" part is maintaining your metabolism by eating small meals regularly, exercising, and eating lots of protein to gain and preserve muscle mass.
It works. It works for a lot of people.
In fact, aside from gastric bypass surgery, it's the only reliable way to lose weight that I know. And gastric bypass surgery is a form of CI:CO!
And then we have a bunch of people on Less Wrong, ...
Sorry for the late reply, I haven't checked this in a while.
Please don't fight the hypothetical.
Most components of our thought processes are subconscious. The hypothetical question you posed presses a LOT of subconscious buttons. It is largely impossible for most people, even intelligent ones, to take a hypothetical question at face value without being influenced by the subconscious effects of the way it's phrased.
You can't fix a bad hypothetical question by asking people to not fight the hypothetical.
For example, who wants to spend an eternity isolate...
I haven't checked this thread for a while, so sorry for the late reply.
You make it out as though diet by CI:CO is too difficult to be practical. Maybe it is, for people who can't track stuff to save their lives.
For me, it's been easy. When I'm dieting, I have a spreadsheet where I record the calorie and protein content of everything I eat.
Yes, calculating calorie content for homemade meals is a fair amount of work, and takes dedication. It takes me up to 30 minutes of lookups and calculations to calculate calorie and protein content in a meal, and that's a...
Presumably the company in question could easily manufacture a whole bunch for itself and get a significant portion of the bitcoin market
They can get 100% of the mining and transaction fees market by snapping their fingers. Once they've made their initial investment into manufacturing the chip, the marginal cost of making more of them is minimal. Far below the $30k they're selling the 1 TH solution for.
They can grab 50%+ of the mining market for themselves pretty easily. Then, they can increase their capacity to keep up with the growth of the network for...
Then they will blast you and the pleasure machine into deep space at near light-speed so that you could never be interfered with. Would you let them do this for you?
Most people say they wouldn't choose the pleasure machine.
Well, no wonder. The way the hypothetical scenario is presented evokes a giant array of ways it could go wrong.
What if the pleasure machine doesn't work? What if it fails after a month? What if it works for 100 years, followed by 1,000 years of loneliness and suffering?
Staying on Earth sounds a lot safer.
Suppose the person you are ask...
I don't think the lack of scientists is the issue. The issue is others providing all the engineering and support that scientists need - to survive in the first place, and then to get science done.
If you want to continue your example of sacrificing a child, a more effective proposal would be to have extra children and bond them into near-slavery, taxing them at some high amount so as to support those who do science.
But that would be a real sacrifice, and most would not find the idea pleasing.
The Economist reported on the Israeli study too:
http://www.economist.com/node/18557594
The article makes an argument which I find persuasive: that it's not about food as much as it's about difficult decisions tiring the brain. When the brain is tired, it resorts to the easy and safe option.
Check out the Economist article for more.
They do in some of the handful of transracial adoption studies, and don't in others. Rushton and Jensen et al hype the Minnesota study, because it's the one that supports their case, and note data quality problems with the other studies. Nisbett and Flynn do the reverse. But very little work is done in this area (yes, because of PC issues with funding bodies), so the data is still too thin to be very confident either way.
Agreed. More data would be nice.
I am open to a different explanation, it's just that the genetic one seems most compatible with what I...
Most of your criticisms here appear to be resulting from "morally repugnant", which means that I hold a view wildly different from that which you find acceptable, but you can't quite figure out why. If you test me, you may find that my views are neither ill-defined, nor poorly thought out, nor dumb; nor even morally repugnant.
Your criticism about politeness is valid however. I do not try to be polite unless the other person is already polite, which creates a sort of vicious circle half the time. I'd like to improve that.
Good points. But then why don't African Americans perform much better when adopted and raised by non-African parents? If it's about parent pressure, then an African American kid adopted by Asian parents should perform at about Asian level. Why do they not?
I find Flynn and Nisbett's position unconvincing. Asians are obviously different and were heavily discriminated against, yet have integrated in America regardless, and now have comparable or better outcomes. There must be a more substantial reason why Africans haven't done the same, and the most plausible reason so far for me is genetics.
Pretty much the one major argument against genetics is that people just don't want this to be the case, because it's one of the least hopeful explanations. But this is bias. Once you eliminate it, it becomes strikingly evident what the most likely explanation is.
African-American IQ in the 80s, with only 20% European admixture, shows that African IQs are depressed by environment.
I wouldn't say so. I think it shows that genes for higher IQ are inherited dominantly.
This has also been proposed as an explanation for the Flynn effect - whole countries getting "smarter" over time - being due to the gene pool mixing more in cities, and thus with dominant pro-IQ genes gaining ground.
The same mechanism has been proposed for the increasing height.
...Animals have short lives so it wouldn't work well, and I care le
Btw, I'm just going to interject and say that this conversation has been done at Hacker News many times and it never really goes anywhere. I'm going to wait five years until more genome wide association studies are done before I try to enter this argument again. It seems obvious to me that there are some genetic differences in intelligence, but it's a touchy enough subject that I don't feel it's worth entering an argument based on individual interpretations of incomplete evidence.
If the recipients are highly functional and creative thereafter, they should make money. If they make money, even if you don't want it, they can pay you back.
I do approve of charity which gives to things that do go on to create more than was invested. An example would be investing into basic research that isn't going to pay off until decades later. Investing in that is, I think, one of the most commendable charitable acts.
Most charity, however, is not that. It is more so charitable indulgence; it is spending money on something that is emotionally appealing...
I'm sure this is often the case, but please don't overgeneralize.
True; point taken. I find it likely that many (perhaps most here) are not like that.
Your grandparent post is at +2 as I write this.
True. But overall, I'm down about 50 karma today, and still counting. :)
Even the maximalist (and implausible in light of other data) Rushton-Lynn hypothesis
I've been looking for about a decade now, but have not encountered evidence that would discredit Lynn. I have however seen a lot of evidence which corroborates his findings.
If you have evidence that discredits his work, I would appreciate it.
is perfectly consistent with aid (external provision of disease treatment, etc) having massive benefits in reducing disease and increasing wellbeing until biotech or more radical things can bypass any genetic disadvantage.
Why sto...
It is impossible to draw a clear line between races, but it is also impossible to draw a clear line between colors of the visual spectrum, and yet "red" and "blue" exist. For a non-IQ related example, people of Ashkenazim heritage are known to be at risk for certain genetic issues, while people of African heritage are known to be exposed to heart-related risks.
The concept of race (or any other word that symbolizes this concept) is statistically significant and useful - more so in countries that are much more homogeneous than the USA.
I don't believe that I'm shifting the goal posts; I stand behind both my original comment and the one above. They are different aspects of a greater concept.
Are you now saying that charity shouldn't be directed to countries inhabited by races which by virtue of low IQ will be unable to make good use of it?
That's part of what I'm saying. It should also not be directed towards the homeless and other failures.
I am in favor of a social net for those who are legitimately out of luck and soon regain gainful employment.
...It still seem clear that health, nutri
Some of that "data" is hard to take seriously when you come across quotes such as the following:
Upon reading the original reference, we found that the “data point” that Lynn and Vanhanen used for the lowest IQ estimate, Equatorial Guinea, was actually the mean IQ of a group of Spanish children in a home for the developmentally disabled in Spain.
There's a similar issue with the next lowest IQ on the list, and when you learn that the greater portion of the "country IQ" figures were obtained by averaging IQ data from nearby countries, ...
If it makes one happy to go around and cure people of TB, then one should by all means do so. However, I do not perceive this as significantly different, or more valuable, than running a huge animal shelter, if the recipient of aid doesn't pay you back. As with an animal shelter, you are expending external resources to maintain something for the sake of it. Doing so does not contribute towards creating resources. It is a form of indulgence, not investment.
Points taken, thank you.
Seems like a funny link, I've watched a bit of it and will continue to watch it.
But comparing the per capita GDP of $7,000 in Mauritius, vs $39,000 in Singapore...? Granted, $7,000 in Mauritius is more than $270 in Zimbabwe, but still.
The difference remains similar in PPP terms.
Also, about 2/3 of the Mauritius population appear to be Asian.
But the definition of "humanity" isn't even coherent, and is actually incompatible with shades of gray that actually exist.
Until these fundamentals are thought out, there can be lots of hot air, but progress toward a goal cannot be made, as long as the goal is incoherent.
It seems to me that the type of humanism you're talking about is based on an assumption that "other people are like me, and should therefore be just as valuable to me as I am".
But other people, especially of different cultures and genetic heritage, have strikingly diffe...
I didn't read Guns, Germs and Steel, but I read the synopsis on Wikipedia. My impression is that Diamond discusses the reasons why civilization developed in Europe (rather than elsewhere) in the past. The synopsis on Wikipedia does not, however, discuss anything relevant to why Africa has been unable to pick up civilization after it has already been developed. Are you aware of a synopsis of Diamond's argument that addresses specifically that?
I gave the example of Singapore specifically because it is a country that grew from virtually nothing to prosperity ...
Since we're doing probabilistic thinking, I would assign a great probability to the current system being imperfect, simply because (1) it is the system with which the site was designed prior to developing experience, and (2) the system is observed to have faults.
These faults seem to be fixable by making voting costlier, prompting readers to invest more thought when they decide to vote. I don't even expect that this would necessarily improve my karma, but I think it would increase thoughtfulness, decrease reactivity, and improve quality overall.
There shoul...
Perhaps I would know better to avoid that if I was more exposed to US culture, but I am originally from Europe and I tend to abhor political wars for their vacuousness, so perhaps I'm using words in ways that reminisce of politics inadvertently.
Thanks Matt. I generally try to take this role because I'm aware that the character traits that allow me to do this are somewhat rare, and that the role is valuable in balance.
I'm also aware of the need to improve my skills of getting the message across, but this takes time to develop.
That is generally true. In extreme cases, however, things can get near black and white. The case I was responding to does seem such an extreme case to me.
Aid in health care and education would in fact be the best way if the problem was something that can be solved with health care and education.
Good points. But when are they going to start feeding themselves and making their own medicines?
Haiti and Africa are not the way they are because anyone pillaged them. You need to read types of books you do not want to read, or try to live among them for a while, to get a glimpse of the nature of their dysfunction.
Or ask yourself this question. Many Asian countries are poor, but among them, some are marvelously prosperous. How come, though, there is no Singapore of African descent?
(1) I don't see my comments as being political. If you perceive them as injecting politics, then I suspect it's because you are used to hearing similar things in a more political environment. My comments are about reason, empathy, charity, value systems, and how they fit together.
(2) I am unable to substantiate my positions if people don't respond. When people do respond, then I have some understanding of the differences between my viewpoint and theirs, and can substantiate. But I don't believe it's reasonable to expect all possible counter-arguments to be...
Also, have you actually been to Africa? I recommend visiting for a prolonged period several times. You might see it in a different perspective then.
Looks like you're just going to have to build that road then.
You are focusing on the immediate needs of people now, whereas I am focusing on the dysfunctionality that's going to continue into the future.
Freebies from the Western world aren't going to improve the lot of Africa. The only way their lot can be sustainably improved is by them reorganizing the way their communities work. No outsider can do that, and if they don't, no amount of external aid will help.
I hear Socrates wasn't popular either.
I'm no Socrates, but focusing on style instead of essence is incorrect.
Some of the best lessons I've learned were from people who were using a very blunt style.
I am not trying to appear superior, nor to gain status. If I wanted that, I would not be using a style which I know is likely to antagonize. I use a blunt style at the expense of my status and for the benefit of the message, not the other way around.
I'm not a Randian Objectivist, nor do I insist on everything leading to libertarian policies.
You seem to have misinterpreted me based on a preconceived notion of what other things are usually said by people who say this sort of thing. But I'm not one of those people.
Which is more functional and creative: a community that leverages its own potential and builds its own clinic, or a community that relies on outsiders to provide that clinic?
I see it as equivalent if your cost-benefit calculation values that which is functional and creative.
My observations aren't Randian in origin. At least, I haven't read her books; I even somewhat disapprove of her, from what I know of her idiosyncrasies as a person.
I do think that this is an important topic for this group to consider, because the community is about rationality. My observation is that many commenters seem to not be realizing the proper role of empathy in our emotional spectrum, and are trying to extent their empathy to their broader environment in ways that don't make sense.
Also, if my anti-empathy comment is being downvoted because it isn'...
Thanks.
Oh, well now it's -6. :))
Please clarify. The article you link to is sensible, yet I do not see what part of it is at odds with what I wrote.
I am essentially saying that charity is harmful because the cost-benefit calculation comes out negative when charity is used outside of the context in which it works (a small, closely knit social group).
Actually thinking that out loud makes you honest. People who think of themselves as compassionate are much the same as I described, except that they would rather have me not exist, because my existence violates their values. Instead, they would prefer the existence of non-contributing people who need their help. (I have actually heard that from folks like that, in quite those words.)
The difference between me and such people is that they don't understand themselves - nor the dynamics of the world we live in. It's frustrating to be labeled a heartless bastar...
It's also interesting to see how karma on this site falls steadily with honesty,
People downvote views that are ill-defined, poorly thought out, impolite, morally repugnant or just dumb. The fact that someone might hold such views honestly is basically irrelevant.
I think I'm with Wei in his analysis - resolving the inconsistency from the top down, not from the bottom up.
I accept that our feelings of empathy and compassion are something evolution came up with in order to make us function decently in small groups. I accept that this empathy works only for small groups, and cannot scale to groups that are too large for everyone to keep track of each other. Maintaining cohesion and functionality in larger groups requires formal mechanisms such as hierarchy and money, and empathy is at best of marginal value, or at wors...
You're getting downvoted for overconfidence, not for the content of your point of view.
The utilitarian point of view is that beyond some level of salary, more money has very small marginal utility to an average First World citizen, but would have a huge direct impact in utility on people who are starving in poor countries.
Your point is that the indirect impacts should also be considered, and that perhaps when they are taken into account the net utility increase isn't so clear. The main indirect impact you identify is increasing dependency on the part of th...
Yes, but charity is not without external consequence.
The continuous rewarding of the dysfunctional does have long term effects, which I believe are negative on balance.
The reason we evolved empathy is for cohesion with our immediate social group, where our empathy is balanced with everyone keeping track of everyone else, and an effective sense of group fairness.
But this only works within our immediate social group. Charity towards complete strangers is harmful because it is not balanced with fairness.
To balance our economic interactions outside the immedia...
If F(n) < n, then yes, karma disappears from the system when voting on comments, but is pumped back in when voting on articles.
It does appear that the choice of a suitable F(n) isn't quite obvious, and this is probably why F(n) = infinite is currently used.
Still, I think that a more restrictive choice would produce better results, and less frivolous voting.
Voted down for failing to get the point.
Sorry, I don't check this place often.
To some extent, I think what you described does happen for snippets of code that are largely the same, and which one might write all the time. For example, I can write a "Hello world" program while maintaining conversation. However, as soon as you ask me to write something new, then I do have to start thinking about how to put pieces together, and can't continue conversation.
But this also happens with driving. Speaking for myself at least, I can only maintain conversation while driving in a way that does not ... (read more)