All of DxE's Comments + Replies

DxE30

My sperm has the potential to become human. When I realized almost all of them were dying because of my continued existence, I decided that I will have to kill myself. It was the only rational thing to do.

1Vaniver
It seems to me there is a significant difference between requiring an oocyte to become a person and requiring sustenance to become a person. I think about half of zygotes survive the pregnancy process, but almost all sperm don't turn into people.
DxE00

Agreed. The proper translation of "too hard" is usually "I don't care."

7ygert
That is to say, "the difficulty is higher than the amount I care."
A1987dM130

There's a difference between making it seem morally neutral and not implying anything about its morality or lack thereof. What SaidAchmiz was trying to do is the latter.

DxE10

Nagel had no problems with taking objective attributes of experience -- e.g. indicia of suffering -- and comparing them for the purposes of political and moral debate. The equivalence or even comparability of subjective experience (whether between different humans or different species) is not necessary for an equivalence of moral depravity.

DxE00

The language I use is deliberate. It accurately conveys my point of view, including normative judgments. I do not relish the idea of antagonizing anyone. However, the content of certain viewpoints is inherently antagonizing. If I were to factually state that someone were a rapist, for example, I could not phrase that in a neutral, objective way.

For what it's worth, I actually love jkaufman.. He's one of the smartest and most solid people I know. But his views on this subject are bigoted.

6Said Achmiz
I see. However, I disagree that your comments accurately convey your point of view, or any point of view; there's a lot of unpacking I'd have to ask you to do on e.g. the great-grandparent before I could understand exactly what you were saying; and I'm afraid I'm not sufficiently interested to try. Couldn't you? I could. Observe: Bob has, on several occasions, initiated and carried on sexual intercourse with an unwilling partner, knowing that the person in question was not willing, and understanding his actions to be opposed to the wishes of said person, as well as to the social norms of his society. There you go. That is, if anything, too neutral; I could make it less verbose and more colloquial without much loss of neutrality; but it showcases my point, I think. If you believe you can't phrase something in language that doesn't sound like you're trying to incite a crowd, you are probably not trying hard enough. If you like (and only if you like), I could go through your response to jkaufman and point out where and how your choice of language makes it difficult to respond to your comments in any kind of logical or civilized manner. For now, I will say only: Expressing your normative judgments is not very useful, nor very interesting to most people. What we're looking for is for you to support those judgments with something. The mere fact that you think something is bad, really very bad, just no good... is not interesting. It's not anything to talk about.
5Viliam_Bur
I think you are technically wrong. A world filled with people at the cognitive capacity of a young child would include a lot of suffering. (Unless there would be also someone else to solve their problems.) Hunger, diseases, predators... and no ability to defend against them.
5Said Achmiz
DxE, I have to ask, and I don't mean to be hostile: are you using emotionally-charged, question-begging language deliberately (to act as intuition pumps, perhaps)? Would you be able to rephrase your comments in more neutral, objective language?
DxE120

Here is a thought experiment. Suppose that explorers arrive in a previously unknown area of the Amazon, where a strange tribe exists. The tribe suffers from a rare genetic anomaly, whereby all of its individuals are physically and cognitively stuck at the age of 3.

They laugh and they cry. They love and they hate. But they have no capacity for complex planning, or normative sophistication. So they live their lives as young children do -- on a moment to moment basis -- and they have no hope for ever developing beyond that.

If the explorers took these gentle ... (read more)

jefftk130

This is a variant of the argument from marginal cases: if there is some quality that makes you count morally, and we can find some example humans (ex: 3 year olds) that have less of that quality than some animals, what do we do?

I'm very sure than an 8 year old human counts morally and that a chicken does not, and while I'm not very clear on where along that spectrum the quality I care about starts getting up to levels where it matters, I think it's probably something no or almost no animals have and some humans don't have. Making this distinction among hum... (read more)

DxE-10

"Suppose we found a morphine-like drug which effectively and provably wireheads NON-WHITE PEOPLE to be happy with their living conditions, and with no side effects for WHITE PEOPLE consuming their flesh."

Has a different sort of emotional impact, no?

This is a silly strawman, but I'll respond anyway, because why not.

The difference is that we (well, not me, but the OP and people who agree with him) only care about chickens to the extent that they are (allegedly) suffering, and we think it's not ok for them to suffer. On the other hand, we think that NON-WHITE PEOPLE (just like WHITE PEOPLE) have the right of self-determination, that it's wrong to forcibly modify their minds, etc.

7Shmi
Not sure why the parent is downvoted, it's an interesting question. Where does one build a Schelling fence for farming meat without suffering?
9wedrifid
Mostly it sounds like you are calling all NON-WHITE PEOPLE chickens.
0[anonymous]
Yes, but yours is a statement about what things have an emotional impact, not about what's the right thing to do.
-1Articulator
I'm a nihilist. Where do I fall on your hopelessly constrained list?