All of ErioirE's Comments + Replies

This is made more difficult because a large portion of those running trials do not do the data management and/or analysis in-house, instead outsourcing those tasks to CROs (Contract Research Organizations). Inter-organization communication barriers certainly don't make the disconnect any easier to resolve.

ErioirE-3-9

I was an observer for the conversations that (I suspect) contributed to your opinion here. My perspective is that it seems in large part differences in communication style preferences, rather than object-level disagreements. He seems to enjoy the catharsis of being able to emphatically state positions that are non-politically correct in general discourse, which is a sentiment I understand. I don't recall him responding with anything I would classify as insults or vitriol, though those are to some degree subjective. 
One person's insult is another's fri... (read more)

ErioirE20

Has someone made Manifold markets for these predictions? (As of writing this comment I have not found any and I would rather not do it myself since I don't typically keep tabs on those respective metrics.)

ErioirE30

People wouldn’t let there be things constantly competing for their attention, so the future won’t be like that, he says.

Sufficiently absurd news is indistinguishable from satire? Approximate corollary to "sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from news"

ErioirE10

Oops, I was unclear[1], when I said "all algorithmic feed platforms" I was referring to those with opaque large-scale engagement-incentivized algorithms. Merely having an algorithmically parsed feed was not the sole load-bearing attribute.
Platforms like this aren't directly dependent on mass engagement in the same way e.g. no ad revenue, enforcing minimum standards of quality etc.
If it ever became big enough/moderation policies changed enough I would have to find other sites.
In it's current state I don't mind LessWrong's feed. The rate of content generatio... (read more)

ErioirE20

A few years ago I distanced myself from all algorithmic feed platforms and I've certainly found it to be worth it. A few Discord servers and some forums like LW are effectively my "social media" and they are quite sufficient for the purpose.

2JustisMills
(I am worried this will seem snarky, but I do wonder sincerely) Do you engage with LessWrong itself non-algorithmically, e.g. by only looking at "All Posts" and doing your own filtering from there (as opposed to the algorithmically sorted default feed modulo tweaks)?
ErioirE53

This was interesting, but I notice I'm confused about what the goal was. 
I'm also confused why anyone would want any more numbers pre/sufix-ing their username than the minimum required to claim one that hasn't been taken.

Suspicion/potential spoiler

Wait a minute... is she an AI roleplaying a human?

5Anders Lindström
Thank you! The backstory to this is that I have been confused about how there can be so many fake/scam profiles on social media platforms when it should be very easy to detect them with the AI systems they have in place. Both the profile nancygonzalez8451097 and jeffyoung9385500 are "real". These profiles actually liked one of my photos on Instagram. That gave me the idea to write this story.  The first part of the story is describing what kind of justifications Instagram's anomaly detection systems must have made to accept nancygonzalez8451097 registration and existence. If nancygonzalez8451097 actually existed, what kind of life would she have led that would have matched what she have put in her profile, and this is one possible life (with a lot of strange coincidences and oddities) that she could have led The second part of the story is how I see a team meeting at Instagram going down, like that Mark need to be completely out of touch with reality (which he probably is not, which is the great paradox here) to let all these fake/scam profiles roam freely on Instagram and not be willing to do anything about it. I hope my thoughts makes it easier to understand? This is a failure in it self. A story should be able to stand on its own without explanations.
ErioirE30

Necessity may be the mother of invention, but at this point we're pretty sure the father was Laziness.

ErioirE92

For complex topics on which I do not have deep knowledge E.G. AI Alignment, I find my opinion is easily swayed by any sufficiently well-written, plausible-sounding argument. And so I recognize that I do not have the necessary knowledge and perspective to add value to the discussion and I purposefully avoid making any confident claims on the subject until if and when I decide to dedicate significant effort to closing the inferential distance.

3Tenoke
If you don't know who to believe then falling back on prediction markets or at least expert consensus is not the worst strategy.
9Kaj_Sotala
Scott Alexander had a nice piece on this:
ErioirE10

In a similar vein how does Spirulina look? I hear it is very efficient in terms of protein per sq meter per year compared to using the same space to raise grazing animals.

3denkenberger
While it's true that artificial light growth doesn't take much land directly, the solar panels might take up more land than a regular farm. Furthermore, it is very expensive. However, we are investigating microalgae growth in open ponds.
ErioirE20

I've had similar experiences. 
For me personally, in cases where:

  • The Technical Truth is not my business: go ahead and lie to me and/or omit sensitive details if possible.
  • — is a much more complex thing that I likely don't have the foundational understanding to grasp: tell me a portion and then check for comprehension, if I fail that just say some vague 'it's complicated' and give me some ideas of what to study if I really want to know.
  • — would probably be disturbing for me to know and I am not likely to be negatively affected by not knowing: You can lie
... (read more)
ErioirE10

This seems like a somewhat difficult use case for LLMs. It may be a mistake to think of them as a database of the *entire contents* of the training data. Perhaps instead think of them as compressed amalgamations of the the general patterns in the training data? I'm not terribly surprised that random obscure quotes can get optimized away.

2avturchin
Yes, but it knows all Bostrom articles, maybe because it has seen the list a hundred times. 
ErioirE10

We should have a game where we create a list of interesting questions and then have a few notable writers here answer them, but then also generate some responses from LLMs (with prompts tailored to getting a less-obviously AI response).
Writers would get points for how well they fool people and it has all sorts of fun mind games like 
"This has an AI-smelling mistake, but is it the human faking a mistake they know an AI might make?"

ErioirE-2-11

Government is also reliant on its citizens to not violently protest, which would happen if it got to the point you describe.

The idealist in me hopes that eventually those with massive gains in productivity/wealth from automating everything would want to start doing things for the good of humanity™, right? 
...Hopefully that point is long before large scale starvation.

1otto.barten
Have we eventually solved world hunger by giving 1% of GDP to the global poor? Also, note it's not obvious that ASI can be aligned.
ErioirE82

Unfortunately, when dealing with tasks such as software development it is nowhere near as linear as that. 

The meta-tasks of each additional dev needing to be brought up to speed on the intricacies of the project, as well as lost efficiency from poor communication/waiting on others to finish things means you usually get diminishing (or even inverse) returns from adding more people to the project.
See: The Mythical Man Month

ErioirE30

I would love to see it happen. It'd be nice to have more stuff in the air removing Co2 and absorbing sunlight. 
I'm curious, what got you thinking of floating algae?

I would estimate the relative difficulty of
[colonizing Himalayan mountain slopes vs free-floating (pelagic?) life at a similar altitude] to that of
[adapting to the salinity of the Great Salt Lake, vs that of the Dead Sea]. The former can support brine shrimp and microorganisms, the latter only microorganisms. Equivalently, the slopes can support simple multicellular life on down, while in t... (read more)

gwern103

colonizing Himalayan mountain slopes

One way to tell that you're at the edge of viability for actual living at this point, as opposed to simply passing through or enduring it until better conditions arise, is that Antarctic mountain slopes appear to be completely sterile and free of microbes:

We analyzed 204 ice-free soils collected from across a remote valley in the Transantarctic Mountains (84–85°S, 174–177°W) and were able to identify a potential limit of microbial habitability. While most of the soils we tested contained diverse microbial communiti

... (read more)
5Daniel Kokotajlo
I started thinking about it because of thinking about Yudkowsky's old idea of diamandoid nanobots replicating in the upper atmosphere. 
ErioirE40

While I cannot say that such an organism is impossible, here are a couple obstacles that it would need to overcome:

  • Sparse nutrient availability - In the ocean, phytoplankton growth is primarily gated by the available nutrients in the water column (particularly phosphates, nitrates and iron compounds, in addition to oxygen iirc). Air has significantly less capacity to transport nutrients compared to how nutrients in the ocean can be both dissolved in water and present in particulate matter.
  • Sub-optimal temperatures - Even at the equator, the atmospheric temp
... (read more)
4Daniel Kokotajlo
Claude did in fact give a similar answer! The thing is though, it seems to me that there's a big difference between "super difficult" and "impossible." There are lots of extremophile organisms that have adapted to all sorts of crazy conditions. All it takes is for one of them to adapt to being airborne, sometime in the five billion years of earthly history, and bam, there they'd be thenceforth, with no predators.
ErioirE60

Another useful heuristic is that electrical devices that have been UL listed[1] are typically better quality than ones without. This is particularly relevant for cheap/disposable items like light bulbs where the cheapest ones tend to expire long before the expected lifetime of the actual LED. (I'm looking at you 'bargain' Walmart LEDs that died after less than a year of regular use!)

Note that UL is a for-profit organization. I have never heard anything bad about it but perverse incentives could create conflicts of interest in any number of ways in the... (read more)

1KvmanThinking
ah
ErioirE*10

I may have distracted from the point by using the race field as my example, my point was primarily to show how deviating from controlled terminology is a waste of time and money.

Allowing more possible choices is not always better in clinical trials. The more data you have, the more degrees of freedom you have in the data and the more spurious correlations you are going to pick up.

Controlled terminology outline what standard terms are available to be used for a particular field. Studies are not required to put all available terms in the dropdown. For instan... (read more)

ErioirE32

Vestigial products and policies also tend to have an 'immune response', generated when parties who benefit[1] from the status quo actively resist attempts to change it. For example violin bow manufacturers could hypothetically fear lower sales if synthetic bows captured a greater market share, due to them not needing to be replaced as frequently.

  1. ^

    or even believe they benefit

ErioirE11



A couple minor edit suggestions:
Footnote [1] seems to have a missed "opportunity" after "every" in:

 I can't help but notice people using these terms at every, no matter

 

To me, an individual's own inability to notice an exceedingly clear absence of any foundational body of knowledge behind anyone's particular persuasion tactics is much more representative of that particular individual's level of understanding with regards to persuasion itself.

To put it bluntly, this statement feels like several related sentences were put into a hydraulic press and... (read more)

1HNX
Appreciated: both footnote [corrected] and bluntness-wise. The whole post came out of somewhat of a hydraulic press for me, so that statement [among others] seems quite fitting. Might end up rewriting or heavily editing a few portions here and there in the future, though. For now, I definitely need a break and some time to recharge. One week of back and forth in order to compile and structure it all was enough.
ErioirE126

This seems like a useful and accurate overview of the general state of data utilization in many organizations.

In my work as a software engineer at a clinical research company, I'm frequently able to watch as my coworkers struggle to convince our clients (companies running clinical trials) that yes, it is critical to make sure all of available data entry options are locked to industry standardized terms FROM THE BEGINNING else they will be adding thousands of hours of data cleaning on the tail end of the study.

An example of an obstacle to this: Clinicians r... (read more)

1David James
Some organizations have rotation programs; this could be expanded to give people a fuller view of the data lifecycle. Perhaps use pairing or shadowing with experts in each part of the process. (I’m not personally familiar with the medical field however.)
JBlack234

...How does someone this idiotic ever stay in a position of authority? I would get their statements on statistics and probability in writing and show it to the nearest person-with-ability-to-fire-them-who-is-not-also-a-moron.

Maybe the nearest person-with-ability-to-fire-them-who-is-not-also-a-moron could give them one last chance:

"I have a red die and a blue die, each with 20 sides. If I roll the red one then you only keep your job if it rolls a 20. For the blue one you only get fired if it comes up 1.

"I'm going to roll the red one unless you can explain to me why you should want me to roll the blue one instead."

But probably not.

ErioirE20

Strange variant of Monte Hall problem I managed to confuse myself with:
You are presented with the three doors but do not know if you will have a chance to switch later. You know the host can decide to open one of the losing doors and give you the opportunity to switch or not, and does not wish to give away the prize.

If the player chooses the correct door first he is incentivized to open one and give you the option to switch, but since the player is informed of the rules that may convince the player not to switch.
If the player chooses an incorrect door firs... (read more)

4robo
The player can force a strategy where they win 2/3 of the time (guess a door and never switch).  The player never needs to accept worse The host can force a strategy where the player loses 1/3 of the time (never let the player switch).  The host never needs to accept worse. Therefore, the equilibrium has 2/3 win for the player.  The player can block this number from going lower and the host can block this number from going higher.
ErioirE4337

I don't think most of us mind clickbait so much as clickbait-and-switch, where the content is not what the headline promises. In this case, the 'bait' headline was more or less justified so I don't mind.

ErioirE30

Because absent their monopoly on certain types of advertising, competitors could offer the same value for much less. In retrospect I suppose the actual problem is then the monopoly power not strictly the effort from the seller or lack thereof. I'll add to the OP to reflect that/cross out what I no longer endorse.

ErioirE10

I don't agree with your labor theory of value - there are many complex and individual valuations that are quite valid.  One can easily argue that the limited resource of buyer attention is worth a fair bit of money to secure, and the percentage-of-sale is just a nice way of charging more to people with more money.

I could be convinced to have a more nuanced understanding. I'm confident I have not read enough of the writing on the topic. What would you recommend?

ErioirE61

We might be able to package this up into a nice tidy term and call it "volume insensitivity". See also: The un-intuitiveness of the square-cube law in regards to scaling things up or down.

I find I'm much less adept at first person three dimensional video games than two dimensional ones. This may have more to do with how in e.g. platformers, everything that can effect the player is in your field of view. Not so in three dimensional games where you can get, say, stabbed in the back and never so much as glimpse what got you. Hollow Knight is a much easier gam... (read more)

ErioirE*50

The National Association of Realtors is a rent-seeking organization. This is because commissions should be strictly proportional to the amount of work required for the specific task able to change with market forces rather than an arbitrary percentage of the value of a particular property, since the effort needed to sell a property is not necessarily proportional to the value of said property.

I'm disgusted that they've managed to make a percentage of property value the accepted norm for commissions. How were people suckered into that rather than demanding per-hour rates?

Edited to reflect insight gained from comments.

3Jozdien
To a seller, the value add is the outcome of selling the property, not the effort put in by the realtor. Why doesn't it then make sense for realtors who provide equivalent value quicker, to be paid more per hour?
5Dagon
Every organization is, to some extent, rent-seeking.  NAR is evil because they're good at it.   I don't agree with your labor theory of value - there are many complex and individual valuations that are quite valid.  One can easily argue that the limited resource of buyer attention is worth a fair bit of money to secure, and the percentage-of-sale is just a nice way of charging more to people with more money. The evil part is they've managed to enforce a monopoly on some kinds of advertising (MLS and collusion among realtors).  This gets them the ability to charge more than they could if there weren't a network effect that they take advantage of.
ErioirE11

The 'live under a rock' strategy has been quite effective for me. I stopped following most political commentary sources several years ago and I've never regretted it.

I avoid political conversations among my family and coworkers because the overwhelming majority are strongly religious and conservative. With beliefs so different from mine discussion is not likely to be productive nor pleasant.

ErioirE32

I see, I suppose I interpreted 'scaling' a bit less generally. In that case I agree.

Also I just noticed you mentioned flywheels, which are one of my favorite pieces of technology. I long for someone to make a phone with a flywheel battery as a meme/gag gift.

ErioirE43

This has parallels with how the factory-building game Factorio presents things. The thing that makes Factorio fun[1] is how it abstracts away those pesky prohibitively complex nuances of manufacturing & automation so that everything can feasibly be automated quickly and scaled ad infinitum. For example: 

  • The conveyor belts run on magic (they don't require any power, which isn't really explained considering every other electrical thing in the game requires pseudo-realistic levels of electrical input.)
  • The assembling machines (essentially Autofac
... (read more)

I’ve been avoiding Factorio. I watched a couple of videos of people playing it, and it was obviously the most interesting game in the world, and if I tried it my entire life would get sucked in. So I did the stoic thing, and simply didn’t allow myself to be tempted.

2Nathan Helm-Burger
You bring up a good point that the amount of picky details that need to be dealt with is huge. I basically think that this whole plan is infeasible unless the controlling AI is near or above AGI. So, by the time such a project could be launched, there will be a lot of other disruptive things also happening in the world. The fact that this could become reality inless than 5 years from now is both exciting and terrifying. Disruptive change indeed!
ErioirE51

Obviously, there would need to be a lot of scaling before it would make sense to internally produce computer chips.

More than mere scaling, this would require equipment orders of magnitude more precise and the necessary ultra-clean environment and all the minutiae those entail. Microchip manufacturing is Hard.

2Carl Feynman
You could go some way with 1980s-level integrated circuits for all the onboard electronics.  The manufacturing requirements are much more tolerable.  But even 1980s semiconductors require a couple of dozen chemically exotic and ultra pure feedstocks.  The Autofacs would have to build a complex chemical industry before they could start building chips.
3Nathan Helm-Burger
Mere scaling? Scaling is doing a lot here. Like, an economy the size of the UK's or something. I do agree that this would require its own set of chip-fab specialized autofacs. Related: I enjoyed Breaking Tap's recent video on working towards DIY chip fab. https://youtu.be/RuVS7MsQk4Y?si=EwQt9e_7BB-KVKAy
4[anonymous]
.
ErioirE30

Interesting. I prefer working on smaller projects where I do the entire thing myself from start to finish. This is mostly because I don't particularly enjoy familiarizing myself with somebody else's code.
Although if I get stuck I will ask my fellow devs for input, and I enjoy showing them whatever cool thing I did once it's polished.

At my current workplace I fill the role of ad hoc programmer, where I'm the guy to ask if somebody needs some small tedious thing automated or parsed I'm the one who can get it done quickly.

I also don't prefer making software i... (read more)

ErioirE10

Very cool analysis!

A more natural way might be to say that in this world, there is no sampling-with-replacement, there is only sampling-without-replacement.

That is nicer. I don't have enough background in statistics to have fully internalized the regular terms for things. I end up tabooing myself and using more words than necessary.

There are probably weird consequences in thermodynamics & physics from these hidden variables too, but I'm not sure what.

That's why I hedged with "Assuming it doesn't break causality or similarly hazardous anti-fun effects".... (read more)

ErioirE10

So if you're aware of Gambler's Verity and try to study it, then it cancels itself out!

This is fantastic!

I'm not sure the best way conflicting expectations could resolve. It could be a flat vote or have magnitude proportional to the amount of observations...Or even based on relative emotional investment! What could possibly go wrong?

ErioirE10

Other good effects: nobody expects to get cancer, so I guess it doesn't happen?  

Things happen exactly as in reality except the existence of expectation applies a base-rate multiplier. So there would be more disease because e.g. hypochondriacs would be more likely than normal to contract disease.

There are many ways conflicting expectations could resolve, I'm not sure which would make the most sense. It could be a flat vote or have magnitude proportional to the amount of observations.

ErioirE*10

If it was advantageous to use structures of those inside cells for reactions somehow, then some organisms would already do that.

Not necessarily. The space of advantageous biologically possible structural configurations seems to me to be intuitively larger than the space of useful configurations currently known to be in use. 
In order for a structure to be evolutionarily feasible, it must not only be advantageous but also there must be a path of individually beneficial (or at minimum not harmful) small steps in between it and currently existing structur... (read more)

Answer by ErioirE10

 Like, for example, it makes sense that a future LLM would be able to explain a mathematical concept that has been documented and previously discussed but I just can't see it solving existing frontier problems in mathematical theory, as it's a completely different "skillset".

Most non-mathmatician humans such as myself are arguably in the same boat for this specific example. I certainly wouldn't know how to begin to work on frontier mathematical theory, but despite this if I were an AI I would fit many definitions of an AGI, albeit a lowly human-level ... (read more)

Haha makes sense. I wasn't sure what the demographic distribution was likely to be.

You're right, "objectively" doesn't fit as well in that statement as I thought.

That is how I intended 'convincing' to be interpreted.

For almost every category of X, you'll be judged hard for your preferences, even if you didn't consciously choose any of them.

It depends on if X is a demographic/group or a variable. "I don't want to date people who are [uneducated/from a drastically different cultural background]" sounds a lot less politically correct than "I want to date people with whom I estimate a high probability of mutual relationship satisfaction." be... (read more)

1StartAtTheEnd
I see! I think we largely agree then. It does depend how you explain yourself, but in the end, you're just wording the same thing (the same preference) differently, and that's still assuming that you know the reason of your own preference, and that they have a reason. The logic seems to be "when the truth looks bad, it is, therefore you must pretend otherwise", which adds a useless layer on top of everything obscuring the truth. The truth isn't always more valuable than pleasant lies, but when this constructed social reality starts influencing areas in which it does matter (like medicine, general science and ways of doing things, like parenting), I find that it's harmful. I'll also admit that I don't find preferences to be a problem at all. Even though most preferences are shallow (occuring before conscious thought). I think both lying about them and inferring something from them is more harmful. All this perceived intent where none exists is what causes aspects of life to be so unappealing. I find most peoples perceptions to be unhealthy, by which I mean lacking in innocence, resulting in a sort of oversensitivity or tendency to project or interpret negative signals. This is sort of abstract, but if we assume that racism is solved by not seeing color, then moral evil can be solved by not looking at the world through such a lens. Favorable and unfavorable outcomes will still exist,  the dimension of "pure/corrupt" feelings associated with things will just disappear. This may be throwing out the baby with the bathwater though.

The rule "90% of everything is garbage" applies, but recent moral values are rejecting any sorts of hierarchies, even between functional and dysfunctional countries, cultures, cities, religions, values, etc.

When society suppresses attempts to evaluate concepts or situations as objectively better or worse than alternatives, is it any surprise that polarization increases? 
If there are no commonly agreed upon benchmarks to calibrate against it becomes a war of whoever can shout loudest/most convincingly.

2StartAtTheEnd
I find that subjective measurements are punished harder than objective ones. You are sometimes forgiven for claiming that "science shows X", but personal opinions are rarely allowed to discriminate, even if they, by their very nature, and meant to do exactly that. Example: "I want to date X type of people" or "I wouldn't date X type of people". For almost every category of X, you'll be judged hard for your preferences, even if you didn't consciously choose any of them. I don't think it's just about shouting the loudest or most convincingly. At least I want to stress that what counts as "convincing" is more emotional than rational, in all cases where the rational is less pleasant to the ear. Some people can see through this and side with the truth, but I think the ratio of them is too small to counter the effect. Since this is mostly about value, objectivity can't help us. Even if it could (through agreement about metrics), the relationships of real-world data is too complex. War feels terrible, yet it's great for technological advancements. "War is good" is not a common opinion at all, it lost, and the positive effects are rarely even considered. Society tends to think of things as either entirely good or entirely bad, but if you consider 3 or 4 links of cause and effect, such thinking becomes useless. But society generally doesn't look that far, and neither does it like people who do. People who look that far ahead will advocate for terrible things now to bring about good things later (accelerationism, revolution, eugenics, etc). But it will happily make the locally best choice even when it's completely unsustainable. Anyway - I think making the correct choice requires some willpower, for the same reason that it requires willpower to eat salad rather than a burger. But the average person, to the extent that they're "moral", tends to be weak. No willpower, no backbone, no abiliy to resist temptation, conflict-shy, afraid to assert themselves. Stronger people suff

I think a significant contributing factor that makes 'simple' questions in some contexts prohibitively difficult to answer is the lack of True Availability of the information being requested.

In this case, I'm defining True Availability[1] as the requested content being already prepared and organized into the correct format and grouped together, needing no further processing other than finding it. Conditional Availability would be when you know how to obtain the information, but it requires some degree of processing and filtering to be ready for consum... (read more)

Answer by ErioirE20

If you want to be generally skilled at the type of challenges D&D Sci provides, putting some points into the data science and statistics proficiencies would be a good way to start.
In particular, some related skills:

  • SQL - Easy to pick up for someone with good technical skills. Challenging to master. Before going too deep on relational databases I also recommend learning good theory and practices behind it like the different design forms and why they're important.
  • R programming language
  • Familiarization with various statistical analysis methods and what use cases they are intended for
1FinalFormal2
Lol just the last few days I was running through Leetcode's SQL 50 problems to refresh myself. They're some good, fun puzzles. I'll look into R and basic statistical methods as well.

As a software developer who works on object-level automation every day, I'm intimidated by the difficulty of attempting to definitively quantify 'profit from automated tasks' in a useful way.

For example, how do we define 'automation'? "A task that formerly needed to be done by a human that now doesn't need to be"? A printing press is automation by some interpretations of that insufficient definition.

Some changes in efficiency also have similar effects on productivity without being 'automation' (although much less scalable), for example a user that becomes ... (read more)

I'm in a similar situation. I have very little self control with sweets/candy if I have them available. I can far more easily stop myself from buying them in the first place.
If I allow myself to buy a bag of candy I've already lost and I will consume all of it in a matter of hours/days.

How much of the developed world's economy is devoted to aesthetic personalization of products rather than accomplishing the essential functions of [product here]?
I am not saying aesthetics or personalization are 'bad', however I suspect that if the cost were quantified and demonstrated to people along with examples of more productive things that could be done with that money, many people might prefer forgoing some of our more wasteful things.

Example:
The cost of having thousands of different styles of sink faucet, instead of a small number of highly efficie... (read more)

There's soft skills in "communicating to others without hurting them", (i.e. "tact")

What about the situation in which:

  • One has highly religious relatives who are somewhat less cognitively functional that oneself
  • You wish you could help them have a map more closely coupled to reality
  • You are confident that you have a good chance of convincing them of reality, but not that the knowledge would actually be a net gain for them to have, since:
  • They are so invested in their beliefs that the realization of falsehood might do irreparable psychological damage
Raemon109

So there's "being honest" and "trying to convince people of things you think are true", and I think those are at least somewhat different projects. I feel like the first is more obviously good than the second.

I would first ask "what's my goal" (and, doublecheck why it's your goal and if you're being honest with yourself). Like, "I want to be able to say my true thoughts out loud and have an honest open relationship with my relatives" is different from "i don't want my relatives to believe false things" (the win-condition for the former is about you, the la... (read more)

Yes, but it thankfully for me only lasted a couple of hours and they didn't start keeping track until near the end.

ErioirE362

I had a very similar experience as a teenager after a mild concussion from falling on ice. According to my family, I would 'reboot' every few minutes and ask the same few questions exactly. It got burdensome enough that they put up a note on the inside of my bedroom door with something along the lines of:
"You are having amnesia"
"You hit your head and got a mild concussion"
"You've already been to the ER, they said you're likely to be fine after a few hours and it is safe to sleep."

The entire experience was (reportedly) very stressful to me due to disorientation.

7Viliam
It could be an interesting experiment to build up this list iteratively. Like, every question you ask for the third time, the answer gets added at the bottom of the list. How long will the list get, and what will it contain?
ErioirE*11

Yes.

For example: The common saying, "Anything worth doing is worth doing [well/poorly]" needs more qualifiers. As it is, the opposite respective advice can often be just as useful. I.E. not very.

Better V1: "The cost/utility ratio of beneficial actions at minimum cost are often less favorable than they would be with greater investment."

Better V2: "If an action is beneficial, a flawed attempt may be preferable to none at all."

However, these are too wordy to be pithy and in pop culture transmission accuracy is generally sacrificed in favor of catchiness.

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