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Thank you for this, exactly the kind of thing I was looking for.

Believe it or not, I've had almost every one of these thoughts myself over the last year and a half.

Do you really believe, as a general rule, that the best way to cure abusive people is to give them a supply of victims

Nope. Don't believe it at all.

Do you have any data to support the hypothesis that your "healing" actually works?

I have data to the contrary. I've spent a year and a half trying and the abuse has gotten progressively worse.

Does your girlfriend take a therapy?

... (read more)

3Viliam10y

Heh. From a certain point of view, she really doesn't. If she cuts you up, that would be your problem. A friend of a friend was dating a person who would fit this description exactly, and... well, it would be a long story. Towards the end the person demanded that they spend the whole day together, every day, which made them both unable to keep a job, so they just kept borrowing as much money as was possible from anyone. The victim was completely brainwashed, and despite trying to do everything, was beaten regularly, more and more severely. At the end, the victim's family kidnapped the victim and kept them in another country for a few months, not allowing them to use phone or internet. This finally allowed the victim to "awaken". Meanwhile the abuser was evicted from the appartment they haven't paid rent for. Instead of finding a job, the abuser spent all their time trying to contact the victim, manipulating a wide social network quite successfully; but the family did a good job at hiding the victim until their "awakening", at which point the victim didn't want to see the abuser anymore. I don't have detailed information about what happened afterwards; I believe the family didn't call the police, but threatened to do so if the abuser tries to approach the victim anymore. (Institutions scare the abuser like shit.) The abuser is now homeless, works for food, and keeps a blog about how this all was a conspiracy of unfavorable parents against the True Love, with prayers to God to make the victim return to them. Note: the abuser is an atheist, but the victim is strongly religious; everything the abuser does is a calculated manipulation. Hopefully, as a homeless person, their ability to charm and seduce people will be diminished. The victim is back, living a normal life again, as far as I know. This happened about five years ago. So, congratulations on quitting soon enough! You were not harmed; you didn't lose your job and savings. For the victim in my story, it took l

Open Thread - Aug 24 - Aug 30

escapealias10y10

Thank you very much this is helpful.

Open Thread - Aug 24 - Aug 30

escapealias10y50

Thanks for this. I am pursuing help. I have scheduled appointments with two therapists (first office visit today) and I'm looking for a third to try to find one that I can work well with.

Erasing the dangerous thoughts is the hardest part and what I wish I had better methods for. I'm in general the type of person that likes to help others, and feel more empathy for her than any other person. Part of the reason I stayed so long is that I viewed the way she was treating me as an illness and thought to myself, what would I do if she had cancer? I'd stick aroun... (read more)

Viliam10y170

Erasing the dangerous thoughts is the hardest part and what I wish I had better methods for.

Finally an opportunity to use my Dark Arts for the benefit of humanity. Here it goes:

You see the abusive mentality of your girlfriend as an illness, and your support as a cure. Your urge to stay is rationalized as a hypothesis that being there, exposing yourself to the abuse, somehow cures the illness. Now let's ignore the fact that it is you and your girlfriend for a moment, and ask a general question: Do you really believe, as a general rule, that the best wa

... (read more)

1[anonymous]10y

If you felt empathy for her, it would be the feeling of threatening to hurt you. You are feeling sympathy, guilt or something else. There is a difference.

Open Thread - Aug 24 - Aug 30

escapealias10y70

Thanks for the encouragement, I do intend to write more.

It's only been a week since I removed myself from the situation, and I'm already starting to feel shocked at how much worse it was than I realized at the time. Seeing the faces and hearing the comments of friends and family when I tell them stories makes a world of difference. Not one person has told me I'm making a bad decision.

If you'd asked me 3 years ago if I could ever be in a situation like this I would have assigned it very very low probability. Low probability events happen, but I think what ... (read more)

Open Thread - Aug 24 - Aug 30

escapealias10y290

Does anyone know of any posts or resources that are targeted at rationalists that help with extracting yourself and recovering from an abusive relationship?

I've been a longtime student of LessWrong and related communities, studied physics at a top school, great at programming, very introspective etc. etc. All the regular boxes checked. Just a week ago I left a relationship that I realized has become extremely abusive (both emotionally and physically) and I'm having a lot of trouble understanding how I ever got in that situation. Having intensely strong sig... (read more)

3Strangeattractor10y

I think your feelings will change over time. Changing how you think about something may not change how you feel now, but it may lead to changes in how you feel in the future. It kind of sucks right now, but I don't think this conflict between your feelings and thoughts is permanent. It's a temporary thing you are going through. Here are some articles I read that helped me understand abusive relationships a little better. “I Can Handle It”: On Relationship Violence, Independence, and Capability http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2011/08/08/i-can-handle-it-on-relationship-violence-independence-and-capability/ It’s Not Your Relationship That’s Abusive, It’s Your Partner – Here’s Why That Distinction Matters http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/05/its-not-your-relationship-thats-abusive-its-your-partner-heres-why-that-distinction-matters/ Also, when a friend of mine was in a similar situation, he said that reading a book about Borderline Personality Disorder was helpful. His girlfriend had that. Your situation may be different. I also think it may help to read books to help learn about and remember what healthy relationships look like. John Gottman's books are my favourite for that. Gottman has studied thousands of real life couples in his lab and has a good idea of what works and what doesn't. Here's one that I liked, though if another of his books jibes with you more, then you might want to get that one: Why Marriages Succeed and Fail by John Gottman http://www.amazon.com/Why-Marriages-Succeed-Fail-Yours/dp/0684802414/ And, Gottman has studied abusive relationships, and attempted to figure out why people abuse, and what patterns they have. He wrote a book about it, focusing on men abusing women, but I think it would be useful in the reverse situation. When Men Batter Women by John Gottman and Neil Jacobson https://www.gottman.com/shop/when-men-batter-women/

2[anonymous]10y

As someone who has been through a lot of abuse, beware. Your future self, not your current self, feels the fallout from the abuse more so than your current self. You have adapted to your abusive situation, when it goes away, you will be maladapted. Get out. Just take it on blind faith that you should get out if you have to. You don't want to end up like me. In my case I was indeed subjected to violence like what might happen to you. To this day, I regret not retaliating, killing my abuser or torturing them back to save myself from even a portion of it. And I'm well aware that's very much not normal. Now, even though I have the opportunity, I don't want to and won't, but if I could go back in time, well...the point is that you should get out, and that's not at all going to be the hard point from there.

0WalterL10y

If someone threatens you and/or abuses you, call the police. That stuff is illegal. Do so as soon as you safely can.

OrphanWilde10y100

Speaking as somebody who could easily be on the other side of that equation, except for a very rigorous moral system, including a rule to stay the hell away from people who scream "Victim!" into my brain, I can tell you exactly how you got into that situation.

She became whatever you needed her to be, in order for you to be the target she wanted you to be. (I can manipulate anybody into doing anything. I just have to become the person they would do that thing for - and my self is flexible in ways most people couldn't imagine.)

In particular, she ... (read more)

3Vladimir_Golovin10y

Buy and read this book right now: "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Robert Glover (I can't tell from your post whether you are male or female, but it doesn't matter. The book is equally good for either.) In essence, this book may help you learn how to stop being a victim, how to set your own limits, and how to get your own needs met. It also may inoculate you against getting into future relationships like this.

Viliam10y140

Does anyone know of any posts or resources that are targeted at rationalists that help with extracting yourself and recovering from an abusive relationship?

I hope you don't wait with getting help until you find something targeted specifically for rationalists. Get all the help you can right now. A little bullshit here and there may annoy you, but non-rationalists can also have a lot of domain-specific knowledge.

GO BACK, YOU HAVE TO HELP HER

If there are any methods -- rational or not -- to erase this feeling from your mind, do it a.s.a.p. That is pri... (read more)

4Elo10y

Please write more about every part of your experience. As we know from a related field; "people who are sleep deprived don't know how sleep deprived they are". People in an abusive relationship don't know they are in an abusive relationship (until the moment of clarity) any writing about noticing things will help people potentially get away from bad relationships. Edit: have some karma to help you recover and/also reap successful feeling from your present adventure

4Fluttershy10y

There's this, both for dealing with the aftermath of the break-up, as well as the break-up itself.

LESSWRONG
LW

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