All of evec's Comments + Replies

evec30

Sure. Say you have to make some decision now, and you will be asked to make a decision later about something else. Your decision later may depend on your decision now as well as part of the world that you don't control, and you may learn new information from the world in the meantime. Then the usual way of rolling all of that up into a single decision now is that you make your current decision as well as a decision about how you would act in the future for all possible changes in the world and possible information gained.

This is vaguely analogous to how... (read more)

1jsteinhardt
Sounds not very feasible...
2Qiaochu_Yuan
Thanks for the explanation! It seems pretty clear to me that humans don't even approximately do this, though.
evec40

Let me rephrase: would you like to describe your arguments against utility functions in more detail?

For example, as I mentioned, there's an obvious mathematical equivalence between making a plan at the beginning of time and planning as you go, which is directly analogous to how one converts games from extensive-form to normal-form. As such, all aspects of acquiring information is handled just fine (from a mathematical standpoint) in the setup of vNM.

The standard response to the discussion of knowing probabilities exactly and to concerns about computationa... (read more)

1Qiaochu_Yuan
Can you give more details here? I'm not familiar with extensive-form vs. normal-form games. Something like that. It seems like the computational concerns are extremely important: after all, a theory of morality should ultimately output actions, and to output actions in the context of a utility function-based model you need to be able to actually calculate probabilities and utilities.
evec50

I think your original post would have been better if it included any arguments against utility functions, such as those you mention under "e.g." here.

Besides being a more meaningful post, we would also be able to discuss your comments. For example, without more detail, I can't tell whether your last comment is addressed sufficiently by the standard equivalence of normal-form and extensive-form games.

Essentially every post would have been better if it had included some additional thing. Based on various recent comments I was under the impression that people want more posts in Discussion so I've been experimenting with that, and I'm keeping the burden of quality deliberately low so that I'll post at all.

evec50

I don't believe your comment is true in any meaningful sense. Can you explain what you mean?

Details: It's easy to prove that the first player wins in Hex without the swap rule, but it's even easier to prove the second wins in any (deterministic, ...) game with the swap rule. Neither proof is constructive, and so neither provides an efficient program.

Interpreting your statement differently, it's easy to write a program that plays any (deterministic, ...) game optimally. Just explore the full game tree! The program won't terminate for a while, however, and this interpretation makes no distinction between the versions with and without the swap rule.

-1Eugine_Nier
Oops. I was apparently confusing hex with bridge-it.
evec80

Why does submitting CooperateBot to a competition that does not include it make someone a troll? Would submitting DefectBot make one a troll, too?

(I believe the competition should have automatically included one CooperateBot and DefectBot each, and stated that this was the case at the beginning. I am sad there were three CooperateBots and no DefectBots.)

0hylleddin
I would have liked to see a proper DefectBot as well, however contenstant K defected every time and only one of the bots that cooperated with it would have defected against DefectBot, so it makes a fairly close proxy.
5Qiaochu_Yuan
I think the idea is that someone submitting CooperateBot is not trying to win. But I find this a poor excuse. (It's why I always give the maximum possible number whenever I play "guess 2/3rds of the average.") I agree that the competition should have been seeded with some reasonable default bots. Submitting DefectBot makes you a CDT agent, not a troll.
evec40

Does checking http://lesswrong.com/r/all/new solve the problem of checking two places?