All of FAWS's Comments + Replies

FAWS70

The writer and danerys thought so, apparently, and it made sense when I read it.

My point is that I don't know what exactly they were thinking and that's why I'm asking. If they think that plowing in particular is a feminine activity that would make it somewhat more understandable, but it's not at all obvious to me from the post that this (their thinking so) is actually the case, and even then I don't quite see what was supposed to be signified since Christine was already regularly including things like making tea. Occams razor would suggest a single mis... (read more)

I don't think the idea is that real-world plowing is feminine so much as that choosing a non-violent activity in a role-playing game is a more likely choice for female players.

FAWS140

I don't understand how Christine the female dungeon master who has apparently consistently been playing with approximately gender-balanced groups not accommodating plowing fits in here. Plowing doesn't even seem like a particularly feminine activity (compared to e. g. trying for peaceful relations with the elves).

juliawise110

Christine understood the game to be about combat, so she had planned an adventure that led us toward combat with the elves. But when she gave us details about starving farmers, my wanting to feed them was considered off-mission.

I don't have much data on what D&D is like with groups of different gender mixtures. At the time, we considered agricultural forays and many stops for "okay, now we make tea" to be things that probably didn't happen when boys played.

Addendum: approximately 900 people have now told me that this kind of thing happened in their groups too and is not a girl thing. Point taken.

2Luke_A_Somers
... if only because an aggressive team might use plowing to draw the elves out in a trap rather than trying to hunt them on their own turf!
4Manfred
The writer and danerys thought so, apparently, and it made sense when I read it. Maybe you mean cultural_expectation_feminine, and that diverges from what geeky girls playing D&D are more likely to do than geeky boys?
FAWS20

Do you have an example of a military dictatorship where the immensely rich were allowed to keep their wealth, but couldn't use it to exert political influence?

2MugaSofer
Well, no. Not offhand, anyway. But people can become rich after the revolution, and I can't think of any examples of people gaining "a lot of political power to try to further enrich themselves" this way. Of course, those who already have such power (due to corruption or whatever) do tend to use it to acquire wealth... EDIT: Put much better here.
FAWS30

Or, you know, they could weight suffering in a continuous, derivable way that doesn't make a fundamental distinction in theory, but achieves that result in practice; amputating a finger is worth more than a billion blood-pricks, one broken arm is worth more than a billion billion nudges, and so on.

That's not (at all realistically) possible with a number as large as 3^^^3. If there is a number large enough to make a difference 3^^^3 is larger than that number. You say "and so on", but you could list a billion things each second, each a billion ... (read more)

0[anonymous]
Then how about we take the human brain's inability to multiply into account? Above a certain number of people, the brain goes numb to any increments, in suffering or otherwise. Then it wouldn't matter if you're 3^^^3, 3 million, or even 3 thousand; anything past a certain limit is just background noise, statistics. Which I suppose would have an interesting effect on the value of genocides and other mass-scales inflictions of suffering, and donation management and other mass-scales alleviations of such. I guess what really matters is the tangible result to you, those close to you whom you care about, and the more immediate social environment you move in. You'd care about the state of a neighborhood, not because you care about any of them individually; you don't even know them. No, you just want to walk around happy people so you can feel happy yourself. Depressed people are depressing. A utilitarian, linear calculation of wealth increase (or even one that'd include a law of diminishing returns) is simply a very rough approximation towards this goal of seeing smiling faces. And then there's of course the matter of satisfying your values, which has much more to do with the state of your mind than with that of others'. And this is the limit of my working memory for today. I'll go mull this over... Of course, I suppose I'm hardly being original here; could you point me to sources that have already thought over all this? I'd hate to find out I'm wasting brain-time reinventing the wheel.
FAWS00

26 - Ebjf, gur guerr yvarf ner svkrq ng n cbvag naq ebgngr. 29, 35, 38 - Zvqqyr pbyhza vf gur genafsbezngvba cresbezrq ba gur yrsg pbyhza gb neevir ng gur evtug ebyhza.

FAWS280

I wonder whether there are visible conversion effects on the redwood question for native metric users? Estimates slightly on the short side and neatly divisible by three because the quick and dirty meter -> feet conversion is multiplying by three?

5Scott Alexander
Seems easy to test for once the results are out: sort people into metric/non-metric groups by the "country" question and compare results.
0[anonymous]
Oh crap, it's 3, not 2. Two is for kilograms -> pounds. Well, there's at least one answer a bit lower than intended. ^^
4dbaupp
And the anchoring effect of the random number changes.
4FourFire
My answer would be affected.
3A1987dM
I rounded my guess to the nearest hundred, to cancel that effect.
FAWS30

Edit: For copulation's sake, whose kneecaps do I have to break to make Markdown leave my indentation the Christian Underworld alone, and who wrote those filthy blatant lies masquerading as comment formatting help?

does
     prefacing 
          with 4 extra spaces 
    work?

EDIT: Apparently not. Very likely a bug then.

3A1987dM
The usual kludge is to replace spaces with full stops.
FAWS-20

That's surely an artifice of human languages and even so it would depend on whether the statement is mostly structured using "or" or using "and".

It's true of any language optimized for conveying information. The information content of a statement is reciprocal to it's prior probability, and therefore more or less proportional to how many other statements of the same form would be false.

In your counter example the information content of a statement in the basic form decreases with length.

FAWS10

I disagree with this. The reason you shouldn't assign 50% to the proposition "I will win the lottery" is because you have some understanding of the odds behind the lottery. If a yes/no question which I have no idea about is asked, I am 50% confident that the answer is yes. The reason for this is point 2: provided I think a question and its negation are equally likely to have been asked, there is a 50% chance that the answer to the question you have asked is yes.

That's only reasonable if some agent is trying to maximize the information content of your answer. The vast majority of possible statements of a given length are false.

4TraderJoe
Sure, but how often do you see each of the following sentences in some kind of logic discussion: 2+2=3 2+2=4 2+2=5 2+2=6 2+2=7 I have seen the first and third from time to time, the second more frequently than any other, and virtually never see 2+2 = n for n > 5. Not all statements are shown with equal frequency. My guess is that the percentage of the time when "2+2 = x" is written in contexts where the statement is for a true/false logic proposition rather than an equation x = 4 is more common than all other values put together.
-1ArisKatsaris
That's surely an artifice of human languages and even so it would depend on whether the statement is mostly structured using "or" or using "and". There's a 1-to-1 mapping between true and false statements (just add 'the following is false:' in front of each statement to get the opposite). In a language where 'the following is false' is assumed, the reverse would be actual.
FAWS90

The logic requires that your donations are purely altruistically motivated and you only care for good outcomes.

E. g. take donating to one of the organizations A, or B for cancer research. If your donations are purely altruistic and the consequences are the same you should have no preference on which of the organizations finds a new treatment. You have no reason to distinguish the case of you personally donating $ 1000 to both organizations and someone else doing the same from you donating $2000 to A and someone else donating $2000 to B. And once the do... (read more)

0V_V
Makes sense, but it seems to me that if there are many underrepresented high yield charities, you should still diversify among them.
FAWS20

That thought experiment doesn't make much sense. If the experiences were somehow switched, but everything else kept the same (i .e all your memories and associations of red are still connected to each other and everything else in the same way) you wouldn't notice the difference; everything would still match your memories exactly. If there even is such a thing as raw qualia there is no reason to suppose they are stable from one moment to the other; as long as the correct network of associations is triggered there is no evolutionary advantage either way.

FAWS20

Are you sure you aren't just pattern matching to similarity to known types of blackmail? Do you think it would be useful for an AI to classify it the same way (which was the starting point of this thread)?

Your link doesn't go into much detail, but it seems like he was convicted because he was lying and making up the negative consequences he threatened her with, and like he was going out of his way to make the consequences of selling to someone else as bad as possible rather than maximizing revenue (or at least making her believe so). That would qualify this case as blackmail under the definition above, unlike either of our hypothetical examples.

FAWS00

That's not blackmail at all. It seems like blackmail because of the questionable morality of selling secretly recorded sex tapes, but giving the movie star the chance to buy the tape first doesn't make the whole thing any less moral than it would be without that chance, and unlike real blackmail the movie star being known not to respond to blackmail doesn't help in any way.

Consider this variation: Instead of a secret tape the movie star voluntarily participated in an amateur porno that was intended to be publicly released from the beginning, but held up f... (read more)

4Xachariah
I still classify it as blackmail. Something similar to this happened to Cameron Diaz although the rights to resell the photos were questionable. She posed topless in some bondage shots for a magazine, but they were never printed. The photographer kept the shots and the recording of the photo shoot for ten years until one of the Charlie's Angel's films was about to come out. He offered them to her for a couple of million or he would sell them to the highest bidder. The courts didn't buy that he was just offering her first right of refusal and sentenced him for attempted grand theft (blackmail), forgery, and perjury (for modifying release forms and lying about it). Link
FAWS20

Cheaper by enough to make up for the extra years you pay premiums in? E. g. getting life insurance at 25 will have cost less than getting life insurance at 40 by the time you are 60? If so, why would insurance companies set the rates that way? Are people who get life insurance early so much more responsible that they are significantly less likely to die even at higher ages?

1gwern
Maybe they are; I've heard horror stories about getting life insurance (like OP, come to think of it...) and who but a very responsible long-term thinking young person would actually get it? I'd happily bet that they are more likely to live a long time than a randomly selected young person.
FAWS30

You are using the wrong sense of "can" in "cannot make different decisions". The every day subjective experience of "free will" isn't caused by your decisions being indeterminate in an objective sense, that's the incoherent concept of libertarian free will. Instead it seems to be based on our decisions being dependent on some sort of internal preference calculation, and the correct sense of "can make different decisions" to use is something like "if the preference calculation had a different outcome that would r... (read more)

FAWS60

You mostly talk about your new blog instead of the idea the post claims to be about, and the post largely sounds like an advertisement. Two paragraphs summarizing your idea and one sentence talking about the blog (preferably worded as a disclaimer instead of an advertisement) would have been better.

FAWS30

(Not Will, but I think I mostly agree with him on this point)

There is no such thing as an uniquely specified "next experience". There are going to be instances of you that remember being you and consider themselves the same person as you, but there is no meaningful sense in which exactly one of them is right. Granted, all instances of you that remember a particular moment will be in the future of that moment, but it seems silly to only care about the experiences of that subset of instances of you and completely neglect the experiences of instance... (read more)

FAWS30

Mere dualism isn't enough to save libertarian free will. To the extent your decision is characteristic of you it is at least in principle predictable, at least probabilistically. The non-predictable component of your decision process is by necessity not even in principle distinguishable from that of Gandhi or Hitler in any way. So how can you call the result of the non-predictable component deciding with your free will?

FAWS100

At a cursory glace the date you cite seems to be for the time the population they are descended from split from African populations, not for when they arrived in Australia. Genetic evidence cannot show where your ancestors lived, only how they were related to other populations (which might imply things about where they lived provided you already know that for the other populations)

4Nornagest
Genetic evidence can't show where your ancestors lived, but it can gesture furtively in one direction while mouthing "look over there". Even in hunter-gatherer populations, there's enough mobility that it shouldn't take anywhere near 22,000 years for African genes to make their way to Australia (or to wherever the proto-Australians were living at the time).
6David_Gerard
Yes, you're right - this piece gives 50,000 years ago for the arrival. But the point stands as to the minimum time humans were anatomically and cognitively modern.
FAWS40

If you assume both free will and prescience, it's natural.

You mean libertarian free will, which already doesn't make sense all by itself, and even then the combination doesn't make sense for additional reasons, starting with that seeing anything would usually require that only main characters have free will.

0Alsadius
Now that is a phrase I've never heard before. I follow neither the term nor the argument, and would appreciate elaboration. Edit: And to address the one point I do follow, someone's decision has to be the tipping point. Again, narrativium being what it is, that someone is likely to be a main character.
FAWS20

And I already remarked in the Luminosity thread that that makes no sense. It makes even less sense in a universe with time turners.

1someonewrongonthenet
Take the present state of the universe and use an imperfect tool to extrapolate likely future outcomes. Changing your mind causes the present state to shift towards predicting a certain future outcome more. The only weird thing is that you can actually fool people by pretending. The prediction mechanism has to have some very specific flaws for that to work.

Essentially? It has to happen at some point along the timeline, and whatever engine runs magic finds it simplest to give visions simultaneous to the decisions that cause them. (Or at least, contribute in some major way to them.)

Or, in other words, enforced narrative causality.

FAWS130

Why should the time of an ominous decision be so relevant to seers? Even if the consequences of the decision have a big impact on the future, that future already was the future. It's not like there is a default future before you make your decision and a different future afterwards, your decision itself would already be a part of the future of any earlier point in time. From a many worlds perspective you might have several different possible futures so your overall prospect of the future might significantly change after an important branching, but Harry's d... (read more)

0alex_zag_al
Or to put it another way, your ominous decision can cause a prophecy at any time, past or future, so why should the prophecy happen soon after the decision?
0loup-vaillant
It occurred to me that I didn't notice a prior omnious resolution each time Sybil Trelowney makes a prediction. Mayhaps some resolutions happened off-stage. It might be interesting to try and guess what resolution could have triggered each prediction?

The clock is a gift from Dumbledore. On the one hand, it could be recording. On the other hand it could be transmitting. On the gripping hand, Dumbledore has a Time Turner.

If Dumbledore wanted to assure that any time he was the best pressure-release for a prophesy that pressure was released as easily and discretely as possible and less likely to be overheard, he would want to make it easy for the Prophesy Force to get that information to him.

So he gives her a clock and tells her to ask it for the time each time she wakes up in the middle of the night. The clock tells Dumbledore. Dumbledore gets invisible. Then it's just a jump to the left and he receives any prophesy intended for him.

75th210

Hmm. On first reading, I just took the premonitions as being an indicator of how close we are to the apocalypse, not necessarily being caused by Harry's resolution. And yet you're right; both the premonitions we've seen so far immediately followed Harry's resolving something.

The first resolution was Harry saying that he would destroy Azkaban, whether it meant ruling Britain or summoning arcane magics to blow the building up, and that those who support Azkaban are the villains.

This resolution was Harry saying that if his war caused a single death, he would ... (read more)

4Alsadius
If you assume both free will and prescience, it's natural. You cannot see the consequences of a decision that has not yet been made, but once it has been, then you can view it. Think of the visions in Dune, as one of the better-known examples - the visions that the seers see are infinite branches, not single facts, and the branch points are their decisions. (The analogy is not perfect - in Dune, the decisions of non-seers are taken as given - but I hope the idea is clear).

Eliezer seems to be taking a page from Alicorn's book. In Luminosity Alice is plagued by differing visions as Bella constantly changes her mind about her future, and then the actual future snaps into place when a final choice is made.

FAWS40

It's definitely not just that, otherwise he'd have tossed Harry a knut port key into an active volcano or the like. His plan seems to involve Harry's "dark side" taking permanent control (like he expected to be the case before he was surpised by the news that there was a separate dark side in the first place rather than just Harry sometimes pretending to be non-dark).

FAWS00

(I lost track of what you were trying to argue, and the comment in isolation seemed to suggest that the non-trivial change had happened. A clause like "so the fact that this was carefully kept constant is evidence in favor of ..." would have helped. )

FAWS10

That would only have changed if the year he started Hogwarts changed, which it did not. The birth date didn't change by a whole year, just from late enough in 1926 to enter Hogwarts in 1938 to early enough in 1927 to enter Hogwarts in that same year.

0pedanterrific
Yes. Exactly. That's my point. (Not sure why you said this.)
FAWS70

In addition to what the others have said there are numerous other passages and oddities that hint at Quirrel = Voldemort = Harry's dark side. Harry and Quirrel describing a Horcrux between them when they talk about the Pioneer plate. Quirrel saying he "resolved his parental issues to his satisfaction" long ago, just after saying being grateful for his parents could never have occured to him. Quirrel having a much better model of Harry than of Draco or Hermione, particularly when Harry's dark side is involved. Harry's dark side and Quirrel both b... (read more)

5Benquo
And of course, from Chapter 34:
FAWS30

Voted down for neither containing new and interesting ideas nor being funny.

2roystgnr
IMHO the trouble with this post is that it either works too well or too poorly as an analogy. If you see what the "optional variant" is hinting, then you're going to have difficulty discussing this abstract version of the problem without falling back on cached beliefs from real problems, at which point we might as well drop the analogy and discuss the real problems. If you don't see what the "optional variant" is referring to, then you're going to have difficulty discussing the abstract version of the problem because the setup sounds too arbitrary and silly. I'm not downvoting, though; it was a good try. I can't even quite articulate what it is about this problem that comes off as "too silly". The original Newcomb problem, the Prisoners' Dilemma, even the "Clippy" metaphor itself should sound equally silly, yet somehow those analogies come off as more intriguing and elicit more discussion.
FAWS90

Harry concluded that it must have been a false memory charm. That was one of the more popular theories before, and Harry agreeing is probably as much confirmation as we are going to get in-story.

FAWS90
  • Quirrel is pretty much universally agreed to be Voldemort, likely with the 5 places Harry names in chapter 46 as his Horcrux hiding places, among them the Pioneer plate, and probably Harry himself as in canon.
  • Surius Black is generally agreed not to ever have been taken to Azkaban, most likely by somehow making Peter Pettigrew take his place.
  • Lucius is agreed to think that Harry is Voldemort (and be right with respect to Harry's dark side).

There were a bunch of theories regarding the identities of Hat and Cloak and Santa Claus and the details of the prank on Rita Skeeter, but those were mostly settled in recent chapters.

3chaosmosis
I can haz evidences, plz? But thanks for even just the claims.
1[anonymous]
Wait, when did we learn anything about the Rita Skeeter prank?
FAWS20

The Hugo is a reader award, voted on by the attendees of Worldcon.

Ranked preference voting, though. I'd expect a significant numbers of voters to rank "no award" ahead of any fanfic just on general principles. If it was just a single round of single preference voting the odds would look much better.

FAWS10

I don't have any saved copy, but clear memory of the bolded part not being there. I think the wording is otherwise identical.

FAWS240

"But I -" Her excellent memory helpfully replayed it for the thousandth time, Draco Malfoy telling her with a sneer that she'd never beat him when he wasn't tired, and then proceeding to prove just that, dancing like a duelist between the warded trophies while she frantically scrambled, and dealing the ending blow with a hex that sent her crashing against the wall and drew blood from her cheek - and then - then she'd -

This seems to suggest that her memories of the duel are a fabrication (or the "Draco" she was fighting was someone el... (read more)

0Alsadius
You don't think a pissed-off 12 year old who's fighting a duel for vengeance might be inclined to rub a little salt in the wounds?
-2Desrtopa
Well, the whole obliviate cycle on Hermione took place at a time when the events that led to Draco willingly challenging Hermione to a duel probably could not have been predicted, unless someone caused them deliberately. Draco had no intention of challenging Hermione until his hand was forced by some apparently chance events in a battle that did not have to go that way. So if a third party was planning a duel, that turn of events might not have been in their plans. Although it raises the question of what they would have done if the battle had not turned out that way, since Hermione probably would not have challenged Draco.

I notice that the only thing we're told about Hermione's appearance in Chapter 78 is that she has bags under her eyes, no mention of a cut on her cheek.

FAWS90

The edit to 53 recently mentioned seems to be here:

"Your wand," murmured Bellatrix, "I took it from the Potters' house and hid it, my lord... under the tombstone to the right of your father's grave... will you kill me, now, if that was all you wished of me... I think I must have always wanted you to be the one to kill me... but I can't remember now, it must have been a happy thought..."

0Alex_Altair
What was the original wording?
8ArisKatsaris
A very disappointing change for me. The previous version had seemingly been a very major clue -- now that clue is nullified and replaced with the standard and uninteresting "some Death Eater salvaged Voldemort's wand from the Potters' House" which is the excuse every HP fanfic out there gives to cover this obvious plot hole by Rowling... Also does anyone think that Bellatrix could have stood over Harry's crib and not finished the task that Voldemort seemed to have wanted accomplished?
FAWS180

Harry nodded. " At least nobody's going to try hexing you, not after what the Headmaster said at dinner tonight. Oh, and Ron Weasley came up to me, looking very serious, and told me that if I saw you first, I should tell you that he's sorry for having thought badly of you, and he'll never speak ill of you again."

"Ron believes I'm innocent?" said Hermione.

"Well... he doesn't think you're innocent, per se..."

Ron approves of trying to murder Draco Malfoy?

0Bugmaster
Either that, or he's just in love with Hermione, and wants to support her in any way he can.
1trlkly
He does hate him very much, remember. And your idea makes a lot more sense than min: Ron alone was smart enough to be scared of Hermione-the-murderer that he wanted to get on her good side.
thomblake320

Ron approves of trying to murder Draco Malfoy?

I'm pretty sure even canon Ron would at least say he approves of killing Draco.

-7Lachann
-3cultureulterior
Hat and Cloak might have tried the algorithm on Ron first.
-3MarkusRamikin
That's what I thought at first, but that explanation still leaves me confused. Canon!Ron was a good guy, more or less, I can't see EY flattening the character into a mere Malfoy-hater. I'm sure the anti-Malfoy sentiment helped, but additionally he probably believes one of those poor explanations of what "really happened".
FAWS90

As of last week Eliezer didn't have any plans to include an allegory to FAI, and expected any such allegory to work very badly in story terms ("suck like a black hole").

4Percent_Carbon
For the reference of other readers
2vali
Oh. I feel a little silly now.
FAWS30

Wait, that doesn't work, for Voldemort being a known parselmouth to allow Hagrid a retrial after discovering the charm on the Sorting Hat Tom Riddle and Voldemort have to be known to be the same person.

EDIT: Eliezer jossed heroic Riddle in the mean time anyway.

FAWS40

Thomas Marvolo Gaunt-Riddle, hero of wizarding Britain? Though since Dumbledore knows that Tom Riddle is Voldemort that seems like quite the narrow escape; his game would be up if Bones and Dumbledore talked openly to each other.

7Anubhav
Eliezer S. Yudkowsky
3FAWS
Wait, that doesn't work, for Voldemort being a known parselmouth to allow Hagrid a retrial after discovering the charm on the Sorting Hat Tom Riddle and Voldemort have to be known to be the same person. EDIT: Eliezer jossed heroic Riddle in the mean time anyway.
FAWS180

Why wasn't one of the first things Harry did when returning from the trial exposing Hermione to the light of the True Patronus while she was still unconscious (it looks like it didn't happen at least)? He already knows it restores recent Dementor damage, has a plausible reason to know in that he experienced it himself under Dumbledore's eyes and could have told Dumbledore to secure his cooperation. Is his anger at Dumbledore getting in the way?

5buybuydandavis
And I hope the next thing he does is to teach her how to cast the True Patronus.

Since I don't anticipate getting a chance to point it out inside the fic itself, and the hint is unreasonably subtle:

When Hermione woke the third time (though it felt like she'd only closed her eyes for a moment) the Sun was even lower in the sky, almost fully set. She felt a little more alive and, strangely, even more exhausted. This time it was Professor Flitwick who was standing next to her bed and shaking her shoulder, a tray of steaming food floating next to him. For some reason she'd thought Harry Potter ought to be leaning over her bedside, but he

... (read more)
FAWS50

Are you saying that the demographic you are talking about is special in using prejudice as the marker of evilness (as opposed to religious affiliation or whatever), or in taking that sort of attitude at all?

-3MixedNuts
Sort of the latter. Conservatives tend to think people evil for supporting things like gay marriage and abortion - things that all sides agree are supported by one side and opposed by the other. Or to think people fundamentally good, but naive and misguided - everyone agrees poverty is bad, but conservatives think food stamps make it worse, so they oppose liberals who support food stamps. People who reject both labels seem to regard both conservatives and liberals as cute little bumbling fools who want to do good and thus deserve a pat on the head and a lollipop. I haven't spent nearly as much time in conservative circles as in liberal ones, but there is a distinctive pattern among liberals that I would not expect to observe anywhere else: "Let's solve sexism by putting kittens in a blender!" "Putting kittens in a blender sounds like a bad idea." "You evil sexist!".
FAWS00

the thing that is identical is that you are trading utilities across people,

This is either wrong (the utility functions of the people involved aren't queried in the dust speck problem) or so generic as to be encompassed in the concept of "utility calculation".

Aggregating utility functions across different people is an unsolved problem, but not necessarily an unsolvable one. One way of avoiding utility monsters would be to normalize utility functions. The obvious way to do that leads to problems such as arachnophobes getting less cake even if they like cake equally much, but IMO that's better than utility monsters.

0billswift
Really? Every use of utilities I have seen either uses a real world measure (such as money) with a notation that it isn't really utilities or they go directly for the unfalsifiable handwaving. So far I haven't seen anything to suggest "aggregating utility functions" is even theoretically possible. For that matter most of what I have read suggests that even an individual's "utility function" is usually unmanageably fuzzy, or even unfalsifiable, itself.
2Dmytry
The utilities of many people are a vector, you are to map it to a scalar value, that loses a lot of information in process, and it seems to me however you do it, leads to some sort of objectionable outcomes. edit: I have a feeling one could define it reasonably with some sort of Kolmogorov complexity like metric that would grow incredibly slowly for the dust specks and would never equate what ever hideously clever thing does our brain do to most of the neurons when we suffer; the suffering beating the dust specks on the complexity (you'd have to write down the largest number you can write down in as many bits as the bits being tortured in the brain; then that number of dust specks starts getting to the torture level). We need to understand how pain works before we can start comparing pain vs dust specks.
FAWS70

(examples chosen for being at different points in the spectrum between the two options, not for being likely)

Moral Universalism could be true in some sense, but not automatically compelling, and the AI would need to be programmed to find and/or follow it.

There could be a uniquely specified human morality that fulfills much of the same purpose Moral Universalism does for humans.

It might be possible to specify what we want in a more dynamic way than freezing in current customs.

-1Dmytry
My original post had this possibility. Where you make the AI that develops much of the morality (which it would really have to). edit: note that the AI in question may be just a theorem prover which tries to find some universal moral axioms, but is not itself moral or compelled to implement anything in real world. What's in 10 millions years? 100 millions? A straitjacket for intelligent life. We would still want some limits from our values right now, e.g. so that the society wouldn't steer itself to suicide somehow. Even rules like 'it is good if 99% of people agree with it" can steer us into some really nasty futures over the time. Other issue is the possibility of de-evolution of human intelligence. We would not want to lock in all the customs, but some of the values of the today, would get frozen in.
FAWS180

The only similarity between those cases is that they involve utility calculations you disagree with. Otherwise every single detail is completely different. (e. g. the sort of utility considered, two negative utilities being traded against each other vs. trading utility elsewhere (positive and negative) for positive utility, which side of the trade the single person with the large individual utility difference is on, the presence of perverse incentives, etc, etc).

If anything it would be more logical to equate Felix with the tortured person and treat this a... (read more)

-8Thomas
-2Dmytry
You aren't seeing forest for the trees... the thing that is identical is that you are trading utilities across people, which is fundamentally problematic and leads to either tortured child or utility monster, or both.
FAWS00

Yes, and the FFN update alert already went out. My guess is that Eliezer posted the chapter and deleted it immediately afterwards, perhaps due to some formatting problem.

FAWS130

If he apologizes he'll probably either do it in person or in a similar way to last time, when he apologized for being unfair after Fawkes started shouting via Flitwick.

One major problem with such a list is that he currently doesn't know how difficult it would be to earn more money.

FAWS60

And there is no problem with that if it's restricted to non-blackmail interactions (except perhaps to the degree it's mistaken by others to also apply to blackmail). Not responding to blackmail as a principled position and not valuing the life of the hostage highly enough for the amount asked for are completely different things.

Otherwise it would have made sense for Voldemort (who wouldn't care about Death Eater families) to keep taking family members hostage and ask for lower and lower amounts until hitting the sum they are valued at. Either that sum w... (read more)

0Luke_A_Somers
Still, there must be a price low enough that it'd be paid.
FAWS100

Dumbledore seems a bit off in equating the two situations. Lucius isn't threatening to send Hermione to Azkaban in the hope of getting something from Harry/Dumbledore; in fact he made clear that he would rather send her to Azkaban than receive the money. Therefore paying of the blood debt does not equal giving in to blackmail and Harry can save her while still maintaining a consistent position of not giving in to blackmail. Engineering similar situations without making apparent that they are engineered (and therefore blackmail) is probably too impractical to be worth the effort.

That Lucius' intention was not to blackmail Harry, does not change the fact that now Lucius and Harry's other enemies know that Harry would be willing to sacrifice any amount of money to save a friend.

FAWS-20

Hence the word "largely".

FAWS00

Saying that moral weight is based on sentience is IMO largely a tautology. Sentience is mostly the word we use for "whatever poorly defined features of a mind give it moral weight".

1TheOtherDave
Even granting that, it at least expresses that moral weight is a function of a mind, which is not entirely tautological.
7Raemon
Short version of my other response: Sentience and life are probably both nonsense words, but if we're picking a nonsense word to define rigorously and care about, it should be sentience.
1TimS
Yes, but saying that everything alive deserves moral consideration is a different position.
FAWS10

Harry could still get a false negative. Remember, Harry will feel the impulse to offer a drink to Alice if and only if if Alice is about to be surprised.

Again, we don't know that. The soda working in two steps as you seem to suggest (detecting future surprise, then determining whether that surprise is sufficient to cause soda spitting when drunk at the right time) is consistent with what we know about the soda. But that's not the only possibility consistent with what we know. The soda could also work in a single step and detect whether soda drunk at various points would be spit, without directly detecting surprise at all.

1Eponymuse
You are right, those are both possibilities. Though, one of them has been explicitly presented by the author, and endorsed by Harry. I don't think we have much reason to doubt the canonical interpretation.
6Jonathan_Elmer
Regardless of the reason for the spit Harry would still have to follow through with whatever that is for the signal to be sent back in time to cause the urge to drink. Otherwise it would be like Harry escaping from that locked classroom after Draco tortured him without then going back in time and sending the Professor to let him out.
6[anonymous]
So from what we know of Quirrell, it would be just like him (having recently learned about Comed-Tea) to have a policy of spitting out soda that he drinks, so that no one gains information on whether or not he is surprised.
Load More