All of Fractalideation's Comments + Replies

This resonates strongly with my experience, though when I noticed this pattern I thought of it as part of my ADHD and not my depression. Maybe this is something like the mechanism via which ADHD causes depression.

Also resonates strongly with my own experience, in my case just replace "ADHD" with "ME/CFS".

I think OP description is good but quite generic i.e. it would probably resonate with most people who have a physical and/or mental health condition which is quite "taxing" in the sense that it significantly lowers the reward/effort ratio of every/most ... (read more)

1Sable
Interesting. I'm glad that this resonates, and like the idea that what I described was a generic experience, which can be caused by various issues in the brain.

Aaw no problem at all Florian, I genuinely simply enjoyed you mentioning that sleep-clone-swap thought experiment and truly wasn't bothered at all by anything about it, thank you so much for your very interesting and kind words and your citation and link in your article, wow I am blushing now!

And thank you so much for that great post of yours and taking the time to thoroughly answer so many comments (incuding mine!) that is so kind of you and makes for such an interesting thread about this topic of entity/person/mind/consciousness/self continuity/discontin... (read more)

Widely subscribe to OP point of view.

(loving that the sleep-clone-swap thought experiment I described in my comment to Rob Bensinger's post inspired you!)

The level of discontinuity at which each people will consider a future entity/person/mind/self to still be the rightful continuation of a present entity/person/mind/self will vary according to their own present subjective feelings/opinions/points-of-view/experiences/intutions/thoughts/theories/interpretations/preferences/resolutions about it.

This is really Ship of Theseus paradox territory.

For example, th... (read more)

2FlorianH
Thanks! In particular also for your more-kind-than-warranted hint at your original w/o accusing me of theft!! Especially as I now realize (or maybe realize again) your sleep-clone-swap example, which indeed I love as an perfectly concise illustration, had also come along with at least an "I guess"-caveated "it is subjective", i.e. which some sense is really already included a core part of the conclusion/claim here. I should have also picked up your 'stream-of-consciousness continuity' vs. 'substrate/matter continuity' terminology. Finally, the Ship of Theseus question thus, with "Temporal parts" vs. "Continued identity" would also be good links, although I guess I'd be spontaneously inclined to dismiss part of the discussion of these as questions 'merely of definition' - just until we get to the question of the mind/consciousness, where it seems to me indeed to become more fundamentally relevant (although, maybe, and ironically, after relegating the idea of a magical persistent self, maybe one could say, also here in the end it becomes slightly closer to that 'merely question of definition/preference' domain). Btw, I'll now take your own link-to-comment and add it to my post - thanks if you can let me know where I can create such links; I remembered looking and not finding it ANYWHERE even on your own LW profile page.

Having been suffering myself from ME/CFS (and/or possibly long COVID) since early 2020 (after I fell ill with an illness very similar to COVID-19 at the end of 2019) I understand and feel your frustration, pain and suffering having to face a very long haul chronic debilitating complex disease with complex/unknow/obscure etiology/mechanisms and no current proven cure and nothing much effective to treat the symptoms neither.

At least for long COVID and also ME/CFS (thanks to long COVID which has many similarities with ME/CFS) there are quite a few labs/resear... (read more)

3riceissa
Funny that you mention this, because I was just musing about this the other day over on my personal website. Unfortunately I wasn't able to come up with a very good name... I really appreciate you saying this! I've looked at some of Sarah Myhill's work before, and yeah, I think it's a good example of someone seriously thinking about how to solve an illness. I wish I knew how to get more people like her to study different kinds of illnesses too.

Loved the post and all the comments <3

Here is I think an interesting scenario / thought experiment:

  1.  A copy of a person is made while that original person is sleeping on a bed.
  2. The original person is moved to a sofa while still sleeping.
  3. The copy (which is also sleeping) is put in the bed at the exact same position where the original person was.
  4. After a while the original and the copy both wake up and can see each other (we assume they are both completely oblivious to exactly what happened while they were sleeping and that they didn't dream or they dre
... (read more)

Started to enter a state that could be described as "meta analysis paralysis" ("meta-[analysis paralysis]" and not "[meta-analysis] paralysis") when I wanted to formulate my comment about your very interesting take on EA Burnout!

Your post screamed to me as a great example of analysis paralysis and bounded rationality.

Then I started to get paralyzed trying to analyse analysis paralysis and bounded rationality in the context of EA burnout and I quickly burnt out solutionless writing this comment.

Oh the irony!

Even burnt out I was still stuck in analysis paral... (read more)

Hello,

Personally I think there is a major problem on how productivity is measured.

Basically:

productivity = production/time

But here is the major flaw: how is production currently measured?

It is measured by how much money you sell that production!

So basically as it stands:

productivity = (money made)/time

Imho that way of measuring productivity is really dumb and gives a completely undervalued measurement of production.

To take a simple example imagine you create (with thousands of other people) an OS like Linux that powers billions & billions of computing ... (read more)

Hello,

I tend to intuitively strongly agree with James Miller's point (hence me upvoting it).

There is a strong case to make that a TAI would tend to spook economic agents which create products/services that could easily be done by a TAI.

For an anology think about a student who wants to decide on what xe (I prefer using the neopronoun "xe" than "singular they" as it is less confusing) wants to study for xir future job prospects: if that student thinks that a TAI might do something much faster/better than xem in the future (translating one language into anoth... (read more)

You make good/interesting points:

1) About AGI being different from ASI: basically this is the question of how fast we go from AGI to ASI i.e. how fast is the takeoff. This is debated and no one can exactly predict how much time it will take i.e. if it would/will be a slow/soft takeoff or a fast/hard takeoff. The question of what happens economically during the AGI to ASI takeoff is also difficult to predict. It would/will depend on what (the entity controlling) the self-improving AGI decides to do, how market actors are impacted, if they can adapt to it or... (read more)

Thank you for your interesting answer :)

I agree that in all likelihood a TS/ASI would be very disruptive for the economy.

Under some possible scenarios it would benefit most economic actors (existing and new) and lead to a general market boom.

But under some other possible scenarios (like for example as you mentioned a monopolistic single corporation swallowing up all the economic activity under the command of a single ASI) it would lead to an economic and market crash for all the other economic actors.

Note that a permanent economic and market crash would no... (read more)

2Roman Leventov
Please also take into account that TAI (~= AGI) is not the same thing as ASI. It's now perhaps within the Overton window for normie traders to imagine the arrival of AGI/TAI that will radically automate the economy and will unlock abundance, but imagining that this stage will, perhaps, very soon will be followed by ASI is still outside the Overton window. For example, in the public discourse, there is plenty of discussion of powerful AI taking away human jobs (more often than not with the connotation that it will simultaneously create much more jobs and the economy will flourish, though), but not much if any discussion of powerful AI taking away human lives. But it seems to me that the market doesn't take into account the expected time of AGI arrival nonetheless. Finally, I want to register that I'm not sure that "far superhuman AI" that can make something completely wild with the economy (and, in fact, the whole planet) as it wishes, is that assured idea. It could be that no matter how smart you are, you will still run into painful infrastructure limitations, will need to cooperate with dumb humans (the efficiency of which is capped by human irrationality itself), etc.

Thank you for your answer :)

Imho there will definitely be a flood of already existing products and services being produced at rock-bottom prices and a flood of new products and services at cheap prices, etc... coming from the entity having created / in control of the ASI, but will that make the economy as a whole booming? I am not sure.

To take an analogy imagine a whole new country appears from under the ocean (or an extraterrestrial alien spaceship, etc...) and flood the rest of the world with very cheap products and services as well as new products and s... (read more)

1Roman Leventov
One actor having all the money and economic power in the world all all the rest "trashed" is not a coherent situation, under modern economics. For the products, businesses, services, etc. to be outcompeted you still need the trade happening, and this trade should necessarily be bidirectional. If trade ceases it either means that the whole world is converted in a single corporation under the command of a single ASI (in which case the conventional market economics have ended, no more money and company valuations), or ASI just decouples from the rest of the economy and does its stuff, "moves atoms directly" as Yudkowsky puts it, but in this case the rest of the economy is also not destroyed (unless ASI also deliberately does this, of course). Inequality, no matter how severe, even if could make 99.9% people worse off, couldn't bring the corporations down.

Hiya,

Thank you for your kind words and clarifying the scope of your question

and sorry for having slightly deviated away from it.

When I have the time I will try to find or create a relevant thread and move my post in there if that is possible.

In any case very glad to see long Covid and ME/CFS being discussed/addressed on LW, many thanks for that.

If ever at some point I feel I can contribute in answering your question within its scope and I have the energy & time to do it, I will gladly do it. In the meantime I will read with interest any answers/comments from the participants to this (from a personal point of view at least) interesting and useful thread.

Kind regards

2Randomized, Controlled
<3

Interesting discussion here :)

Just my 2 cents:

I am wondering about 2 things:

  1. If/when TS (technological singularity) happens, then the economic actor having created SI (super intelligence) would very likely very quickly exponentially increase to some ultra-high/out-of-scale value while almost all the other economic actors value would decrease towards 0, wouldn't it? It's the concepts of "singularity" and "winner takes all" isn't it?
  2. The world (including the economic world) pre/during/post-TS is very difficult to predict / very speculative in nature (one of th
... (read more)
1Roman Leventov
1. No. The economy and the market will be booming up until (and if) a complete transition out of the monetary system happens, including in the presence of ASI.

Hi Phil,

Loved you essay, so interesting, exciting, fun & educative, thank you for it :)

Here is a few points I would like to make as they come "as is" in my limited brain:

1) I totally subscribe to it as well as to the many "longevicists" (or whatever it is called, is there a name for it?) before you like Aubrey about addressing human aging as a disease/condition/self-damage/... that has to be addressed directly. As would determined any simple "root cause analysis" why indeed not spending much more resources into directly addressing the root cause rather... (read more)

2PhilJackson
1. Indeed - people are finally thinking "what if ageing has something to do with all the age-related disease?" This is great, so long as you remember that "ageing" is not just one single root cause of age-related disease; rather, it's a multitude of self-inflicted injuries the body slowly accumulates, which combine to make us frail and disease-prone.  2. Simulations of that fidelity level would indeed be ridiculously powerful tools, but I don't know how long it'll take to reach that level. Also, with a true full-body molecular simulation you'd have the ethical problem that a simulation at that level of detail is for all intents and purposes a human being, and may no longer be ethical to experiment on. The strength of damage repair as a medicinal paradigm is that it exposes a whole host of targets that we can safely go after, confident that doing so will improve function without having a full understanding of how the body works. Often we try to treat disease by changing the way the body works (e.g. statins), but this is very hard to do without side-effects because of how complex and inter-connected the body's systems are. But the things I call "damage" are age-related changes that are unambiguously bad for you and can in principle be reversed. Doing so might not cure all age-related diseases, but it should prevent them all, since by definition they tend not to occur in people who don't have a lifetime of age-related changes. 3. People are absolutely applying the centaur-intelligence thing to ageing already (e.g. Gero, Altos, In Silico), indeed I think all current applications of AI are working in synergy with human intelligence, and I hope it stays that way for as long as possible. It's good that we are indeed able to benefit from (what currently passes for) AI long before it reaches the level where we can just ask ChatGPT "how do I cure ageing" and it just tells us. 4. What matters here is what we want. For now, I quite enjoy being made out of meat, and I think
Answer by Fractalideation*10

Hi there,

Newbie here, first post on LW.

Sorry in advance if I make some mistakes in using this website/forum, please let me know when/where relevant what I should do / shouldn't do when using the LW website/forum, thank you.

Jumping in on that thread as I happen to have a strong interest in AI since around 1992 and AGI, AC & TS since around 2004 in big part because of Eliezer's writings at that time (early/mid 2000s) then Ray's book and Ben's book in 2005, etc... In 2009 I have also made a bet with myself that the TS would happen in 2027 and I still stan... (read more)

2Randomized, Controlled
This comment was made before I updated the question to clarify what's in scope and added the moderation guidelines. I'm sorry to hear about your health issues with LC. They sounds truly terrible. This question isn't addressed at the topic you're asking about, however.