All of frontier64's Comments + Replies

I'm not saying it isn't a problem at all. I think I explicitly acknowledged that there is a problem where I said "the majority of the downside." But it is a problem that the free market can resolve. The free market can't resolve the doctor problem because the government literally requires the worthless undergrad degree to allow someone to practice medicine or else they'll be jailed.

Employers who poorly select employees will most likely be out-competed by employers who make better decisions when selecting employees. We already see this in hiring for software engineers where many employers will accept a bachelors degree or other experience which demonstrates coding skill.

And for software engineering, at least when I went to school, you still had to be able to program at least a little bit to get a degree.

The majority of the downside from credentialism comes from fields where it’s literally illegal to work if you don’t have the right college degree

2Yair Halberstadt
Why isn't the fact software developers spend 3 years not learning all that much (far less than they would in 6 months on the job) not a problem?

Instead of doing this why not just, not require credentialism? Let the free market regulate doctors. Eliminate laws which put onerous credential requirements on professions where there's high demand and low supply.

4Yair Halberstadt
How? There's no law requiring software developers to have a degree, but employers often still only accept people who do.

Putting a finite value on both an infinite lifespan of infinite pleasure and an infinite lifespan of torture allows people to avoid difficult decisions in utility maximization such as Pascal's Mugging.

Maybe this is why so many people seem to naively express that they don't actually want to live forever because they would get lonely and all their friends would die and etc. They're actually enacting a smart strategy which provides protection from edge case situations. This strategy also benefits from having a low cost of analysis.

Sorry to necro, but the sailor didn't give anybody any new information with respect to eye colors that they didn't have already. Each person A-E knew that there were 4 other people minimum with blue eyes and they also knew that each other person knew there was at least a minimum of 3 people with blue eyes.

Everyone suddenly gaining the common knowledge that at least one of them has blue eyes is not actually new knowledge at all.

ETA: I envision a story where they realize that if Enuli never takes the Sparkroot again and is no longer a genius logician they can save themselves that way.

3Zach Stein-Perlman
Everyone knew everyone knew everyone knew everyone knew someone had blue eyes. But everyone didn't know that—so there wasn't common knowledge—until the sailor made it so.

[I'm not completely sure EDT can't do better than this, so corrections with even more elaborate schemes encouraged]

I blindfold myself, weigh two random boxes, then weigh the other two random boxes. I pick the box pair which weighs the least then randomly select between those two. If no weight difference then select randomly. This should net you the maximum amount of $301 if the hosts naively compete against each other as you describe in your scenario (i.e. competing against each other by putting more money in boxes just to arrive at the same 25% equilibriu... (read more)

2eva_
Are you sure at the critical point in the plan EDT really would choose to take randomly from the lighter pair than the heavier pair? She's already updated from knowing the weights of the pairs, and surely a random box from the more heavy pair has more money in expectation than a random box from the less heavy pair, the expected value of it is just half the total weight? If it was a tie (as it certainly will be) it wouldn't matter. If there's not a tie somehow one Host made an impossible mistake: if she chooses from the lighter she can expect the Hosts mistake was not putting money in since that would have been optimal (so the boxes have 301, 301, 301, 201, and choosing from the lighter has expected value 251), but if she chooses from the heavier the Hosts mistake was putting money in when it shouldn't have (so the boxes weigh 101, 101, 101, 1), and choosing from the heavier guarantees 101, which would be less? Actually okay yeah I'm persuaded that this works. I imagined when I first wrote this that weighing a group of boxes lets you infer the total value, so she'd defect on the plan and choose from the heavier pair expecting more returns that way, but so long as she only knows which pair of boxes is heavier (a comparative weighing) instead of how much each pair of boxes actually weighs exactly (from which she would infer the amount on money in each pair total) she can justify choosing the lighter and get 301, I think?

I think a lot of such people can be "cured" by high certainty of being caught, not by severity of punishment

This stems from a misunderstanding of how the career-criminal mind works. They don't really care about being caught. They remember how out of the last 40 or so times they walked into Walmart and left with ~$100 in unpaid merchandise they only got caught half the time and the other half of the time they got let off with time served of 10-20 days. Either they get away with it or they gotta wait a couple weeks before they get to try again. Not a big ... (read more)

I've reviewed many of these cases and it typically means the prosecutors changed from a tough-on-crime prosecutor to a restorative justice prosecutor who's looking to get a nice media headline. The convicted man is still obviously guilty, but because they found one piece of evidence that cuts against guilt, but is in no way exonerating, they decide to let the convicted rapist/murderer/etc. go free.

Best example is the Central Park 5. If any aspiring-bayesian take a look at that case they'll realize very quickly that the 5 people convicted definitely held down a woman while she was being raped. Yet for some reason they are now lauded as innocent men wrongly convicted.

I'll let you operationalize it and give you 3 to 1 odds.

edit: My main point is that a lot of people who are otherwise very smart have no idea how the criminal justice system works. They think our prisons are overflowing with people convicted of non-violent drug offenses when nothing could be further from the truth. Our prisons are overflowing with robbers, stabbers, rapists, arsonists, burglars, and murderers. That's because the media and activist groups lie and misrepresent the truth. We wouldn't ever have to execute a non-violent drug dealer to free up prison space.

2lsusr
I will clarify my position: I'm not going to bet with you on any subject whatsoever, regardless of the odds. I take bets very seriously, and require as a prerequisite that I and the other person are on the same page regarding lots of peripheral details regarding bets. I feel that you and I have different implicit understandings of how bets should work. This has nothing to do with the criminal justice system, and everything to do with precision of language.

I would say this clearly falls outside my bet as I said "solely for sale of Marijuana" and this news release says, "were each sentenced today to 30 months in prison" and "pleaded guilty in November 2023 to conspiracy to manufacture and distribute marijuana and conspiracy to commit money laundering"

So really a no-brainer. Unless I can look at their sentencing agreement and it says they got time-served on the conspiracy to commit money laundering and their sentence to 30 months is solely for the conspiracy to manufacture and distribute marijuana count.

It see... (read more)

3lsusr
I'm not taking your bet. There are many reasons for this, but a sufficient dealbreaker is that I only place bets with legibly unambiguous resolution criteria. Your proposal fails to meet my standards in that dimension. I feel that betting with you carries a significant likelyhood that you and I have a disagreement about who won the bet. That makes this bet a non-starter.

What you describe is the system of justice we had back 250 years ago. The whole reason for the formalistic procedures involving a jury and Judge and all these rights given to the accused were because if he was convicted then he was most likely looking at a quick public hanging. The State has to prove guilt beyond any and all reasonable doubt because there's no going back once the guy's head rolls off the chopping block. Over time however, punishments got more lenient, judges became way softer, and due to the way the appeals process and appellate courts wor... (read more)

Right now there are people in prison for selling marijuana in Washington state

I'll bet you $100 there is nobody in prison solely for sale of Marijuana in Washington state.

9lsusr
First of all, thank you for the correction. Legalization occurred in 2012, and the statutory maximum penalty for selling marijuana[1] is four years in prison. That said, your specific bet that sounds messy to adjudicate. Consider this example: They're in prison for selling marijuana without following the established regulations. (Firearms were involved, but it's unclear me if they're officially part of the charges for which the two went to prison.) Does that count? You may say no, but I feel your stated resolution criteria leaves room for interpretation. ---------------------------------------- 1. At least, the one particular version I looked up. ↩︎

I think we tend to agree on the method to safely talk to a journalist. At least, the method that I see you write about is virtually the same as the method I suggested in my comment.

What I want to emphasize though is that for most ordinary people whom journalists will try to talk to, the format will mostly be just talking to the journalist and letting them write an article later. Most journalists will not do the whole long form interview that recorded and video taped with people who aren’t already famous.

So for your average person who doesn’t already know the depths of journalist depravity, it’s much better to just have a blanket “don’t talk to journalists” rule.

Did you ever have a positive experience where the interviewer didn't misquote you?

2Viliam
In one of those two cases, the entire "quote" was one sentence, completely made up (and crazy). The other case was a mixed bag, where most statements were quoted correctly (not literally, but in a way that didn't change their meaning, and I am perfectly okay with that), but there was one specific thing where the journalist clearly wanted me to say something, tried various ways of "but wouldn't it be possible that..." and "you can't be 100% sure that it isn't the case that...", and after I stubbornly resisted, she just made up a quote that agreed with her, and that I would obviously never have said. But outside of that one thing, the rest of the interview was okay. I also know two journalists who make interviews in a style "let's talk for half an hour in front of a camera, then publish it online with minimum editing". One of them started doing it on YouTube, later he got employed in a mainstream newspaper. The other already started as a journalist, first doing paper interviews, later also video interviews. (Both of them non-English.) These two I would trust in a video interview, and probably also in a paper interview. But I've never interacted with either of them.
jbash1012

Because of the "flood the zone" strategy, I can't even remember all the illegal stuff Trump is doing, and I'm definitely not going to go dig up specific statutory citations for all of it. I tried Gemini deep research, and it refused to answer the question. I don't have access to OpenAI's deep research.

Things that immediately jump to mind as black letter law are trying to fire inspectors general without the required notice to Congress, and various impoundments. I would have to do actual research to find the specific illegalities in all the "anti-DEI" stuff.... (read more)

frontier6415-3

The President is the chief executive of the United States and is supposed to control all the government agencies operating inside of it. Theoretically, Trump has the power to walk into any government office and start doing whatever jobs he wants to do himself. There is no reason why he can't hire people to do this for him instead. He also has the power to grant security clearances to whoever he wants to. The chief executive of the US has a lot of power.

Trump is doing an end-run around the old chain of command because US case law has set the legal precedent... (read more)

2Maxwell Peterson
I am not sure what people are disagreeing with here. The only factual claims I see are “the preexisting chain of command is incompetent or corrupt”, which I agree with (on incompetence), that “the president has a lot of power”, “is supposed to control all the agencies”, and “if the new CEO of a private company…”. None of these seem incorrect to me. I’ve strong-upvoted in both ways.

The majority of journalists are in the top 5% most evil people in the whole world. If you care about getting the truth out about something do not talk to journalists at all unless: 1) it's being recorded by both you and them; and 2) you have the ability to get your recording in front of the public. Most journalists will literally just lie about what you say to them to the public in order to make their story.

I am in a position where journalists often try to ask for comments and my policy is never talk to them. The few times I have made the mistake of giving... (read more)

8Viliam
Despite my negative experience (gave an interview twice, was deliberately misquoted both times), I think there are some ways to mitigate the risk: Check the articles the journalist wrote before. Do they include some careful thinking and nuance; do they present arguments both for and against, such as Scott Alexander's blogs? That it's probably okay. Do they express the mainstream view, or do they align perfectly with the views of the owner of the news? That means your words will be twisted until they fit the narrative (or twisted to sound idiotic, if that is not possible). Is it something like clickbait about science? Expect your words to be twisted for maximum clickbait. Is the communication like "you say something, and then it's up to the journalist how he reports that"? That is the most dangerous way. Sometimes you can make a deal that you need to approve the written version before it gets published. Many journalists will refuse, using a convenient excuse (an internal policy, the need to meet a deadline). Is the communication like "you talk in front of a camera, then the debate is published online"? Watch the previous videos. Are the interviewees talking for minutes, or are individual sentences cut out of their speeches? The latter seems dangerous. The former... there is still a risk of the journalist trying to put things in your mouth (see "so what you're saying is" Jordan Peterson meme), but you can see whether they were aggressive this way in their previous interviews, and to a certain degree you can defend yourself if that happens. You could make a deal that you will record and publish your own version of the debate. I think that most journalists are bad, but there are ways to filter them out. (I hesitate to write this, but I think that Joe Rogan has some qualities of a good journalist. I disapprove of his choice of interviewees, and that he often just gives a platform to horrible people without even slightly pushing back against them. But he is not guilt

12mg pills. I learned my dad apparently takes it more often than yearly. Takes it every couple months for a week.

Ok, then my answer is read the sequences.

1Logan Zoellner
"Can you explain in a few words why you believe what you believe"   "Please read this 500 pages of unrelated content before I will answer your question"   No.

Have you read the sequences? My response depends on whether you have or haven't.

-18Logan Zoellner

Why are you asking this question in a rationality forum and using language that indicates your opinion is based on rationality when it's clearly not and you admit as such?

but if I'm honest, my direct reason for not wanting to vote for him is a strong negative association I've built with him over the past 8 years. Now, why do I have that negative association? Well, hard to know 100%, but I suspect it's his divisive rhetoric.

If you want some good rhetoric to show you why people vote Trump then go to a local Trump rally near you. You'll see that the peo... (read more)

My whole family takes a round of ivermectin every year or so for the same reason. Anti parasitics don’t really have bad side effects (often have good side effects such as -inflammation) so it’s just positives all around.

5ChristianKl
What dose do you believe to be good for that?

Thank you for the post, I'll be watching the video later. The first thought that comes to my mind is why wasn't there a helicopter search in the area? The paucity of trees on the terrain seems to be perfect for helicopter reconnaissance but I see no mention of that in this post.

2eukaryote
Helicopters were used as part of the initial S&R efforts! Also tracking dogs. They just also didn't find him. There's a little about it in Tom's stuff. I don't know if Tom got the flight path / was able to map where it searched, I think there's some more info buried in this FOIA'd doc about the initial search that Tom Mahood got ahold of.  (One thing I saw - can't remember who mentioned this, if it was Mahood or Adam Marsland - is that the FOIA'D doc mentions S&R requesting a helicopter with thermal imaging equipment to come search too, but that doesn't seem to have actually ever happened. Which is a shame, because at that point Ewasko was alive and presumably closer to/within the main search areas, so that could have actually found him.)
frontier643-2

Real money prediction markets are biased towards outcomes that increase utility of the bettors.

For an example: there is a prediction market on who will win the presidential race, Alice or Bob. Currently the market sits at 50-50 and the payout for $1 on Alice is $2 and the same for Bob. Our bettor, Charlie, has internal odds that are the same as the market, however he also believes with an incredibly high certainty that if Bob wins the race then the buying power of a dollar will double. Therefore $1 on Bob is worth $4 if Bob wins, but the same $1 on Alice w... (read more)

I’m surprised that anyone here cares about environmentalism. Aren’t any of the far reaching effects of what we do today with the environment insignificant compared to the development of ai? Friendly ai will be able to solve any of the pollution issues we’re creating today. Unless you think we’re going to successfully pause ai for hundreds of years then I just don’t see the point in making life worse for present humans for some speculative benefit to the future population.

Yeah openly admitting that I have a strong case is good for credibility building. One of the most annoying things is when defense attorneys ask,

"Why is Alice is getting a sweetheart plea deal and Bob is getting jail time when they both committed the same crime and both have minimal criminal history???"

"Uh, Alice's case is almost purely circumstantial while Bob is caught on camera, that's the difference."

"But they both did the same bad thing!"

"Do you understand how plea deals work?"

"[Some nonsense showing that the defense attorney indeed doesn't know how plea deals work]"

I thought the first quote was tongue in cheek and implied that teachers want stupid pupils.

5Shankar Sivarajan
The desired quality for pupils is that they be indoctrinable, not stupid.

I’m the first one

Yeah I stupidly left out the key point of my comment. Added it in edit.

I think you’re understating how helpful it can be for a client if their pd strongly advocates for them. When a pd is telling me about all these mitigating circumstances and asking me to drop the jail because the perp has kids and the kids are here in court and he’s the sole bread winner and please just walk back for a second and speak to them and look one of your witnesses has two armed robbery felonies so I might actually win this case; that affects me. I like to pretend that it doesn’t but I’ve come down on offers many times after the pd goes to bat for ... (read more)

7ymeskhout
It's interesting hearing about your background. One of my approaches when I negotiate cases with prosecutors is that I openly admit the strengths of the government's case. I've recently had a factually innocent client who was charged as an accessory to burglary, but it seemed obvious to me she had no idea what the other people were up to. When I talked to the prosecutor, I fully acknowledged "This aspect does indeed look bad for my client, but..." and I've always wondered whether this approach has any effect. In this particular instance I did get the case dismissed (and many others like it), but I'm curious if it's a lesson I can continue extrapolating.
4lc
Are you a prosecutor/judge?
8ymeskhout
I think I recognize the power I wield in these circumstances. However, it only exists because I work to ensure my credibility doesn't get diluted too often.

You can probably walk into a random law office and ask the attorney to tell you war stories. There’s a lot of supply for that and very little demand.

It’s fairly rare for a patent to be granted and only have a few years left, and if it does that’s typically because of patent owner delays rather than uspto delays. The US law specifically gives you extra time post grant based on uspto delays. Also US patent holders have access to pre-issue, post-publication damages for cases where infringers had actual notice of the published patent application.

But even given that, I am 100% in agreement that patent terms should be extended.

3AnthonyC
Yes, agreed, and just to be clear I'm not talking about delays in granting a patent, I'm talking about delays in how long it takes to bring a technology to market and generate a return once a patent has been filed and/or granted. Also, I'm not actually sure I'm 100% behind extending patent terms. I probably am. I do think they should be longer than copyright terms, though.

I don’t think that solution accomplishes anything because the trans goal is to pretend to be women and the anti trans goal is to not allow trans women to be called women. The proposed solution doesn’t get anybody closer to their goals.

I think the skill expressed by the bards isn't memorization, rather its on the fly composition based on those key insights they've remembered. How else could Međedović hear a 2,300 line song and repeat the same story over 6,300 lines?

So if you gained the skill of the great bards you would be able to read the Odyssey and then retell the story in your own engaging way to another group of people while keeping them enraptured.

it is not in a website interest to annoy its users

It is if the user feels that annoyance towards the regulator instead of the website developer

Is there a reason for that? Is it out of control overconservative legal worry?

Raging against the tyrannical bureaucrats telling them what they can and can't include on their own website by including the banner in the most annoying way possible? Kinda like the ¢10 plastic bag tax at grocery checkouts that tells the customer exactly why they have to pay the tax and makes them count out how many bags they've used.

3rotatingpaguro
I think this is unlikely, because it is not in a website interest to annoy its users, and they are not otherwise obtaining something from bigger banners.

I doubt that speed limits are helpful at all. The sections of the German Autobahn with no speed limit (roughly 70%) have half the mortality rate per distance traveled of American highways[1]. Granted, the average American driver is probably worse than the average German Autobahn driver but hey.

How about instead of doing some random proposed change with speed limit maximums and what not we do some AB testing and figure out what's safer?

Of course safety concerns don't exist in a vacuum. Every second we save on the highway by going fast is another second of l... (read more)

6ajc586
German Autobahns with no speed limit have been designed to be safely driven at high speed. For example, wide lanes, long straight sections, very large radius of curvature for non-straight sections, minimal layout changes, good drainage. And also features which minimise the impact if accidents do occur, e.g. strong central barriers. It does not therefore follow that removing speed limits on typical American freeways, which have not been designed for high speeds, is a sensible thing to do. Plus, the way US politics works, if you did any kind of no speed limit trial, it would not last long. Let's say you're a politician who somehow gets approval to push through a policy to trial no speed limit on a freeway. An accident happens (regardless of whether speed was a cause), and you'll be out of office the next day, and that's the end of the trial.
3jefftk
Rolling out this proposal on some randomly selected matched pairs of high-fatality roads and comparing outcomes would be relatively cheap.

Far future people will likely be able to and want to create simulated realities

What about people from universes that are wildly different to our own? I don't think the simulation hypothesis is restricted to far-future simulators. An entity with the power to simulate our reality with the level of fidelity I perceive is so wildly powerful that I would be surprised if I could comprehend it and its motivations. I always picture the simulating entity as just a stand-in for God. It sits in its heaven, a level of reality above our own, and no matter what we do... (read more)

I'm too dumb to understand whether or not Zack's post disclaims continued engagement. He continues to respond to proponents of the sort of transideology he writes about so he's engaging at least that amount. Also just writing all this is a form of engagement.

My takeaway is that you've discovered there are bad actors who claim to support rationality and truth, but also blatantly lie and become political soldiers when it comes to trans issues. If this is true, why continue to engage with them? Why try to convince them with rationality on that same topic where you acknowledge that they are operating as soldiers instead of scouts?

If 2019-era "rationalists" were going to commit an epistemology mistake that interfered with my ability to think seriously about the most important thing in my life, and they couldn't c

... (read more)

If this is true, why continue to engage with them? Why try to convince them with rationality on that same topic where you acknowledge that they are operating as soldiers instead of scouts?

I think the point is that Zack isn’t continuing to engage with them. Indeed, isn’t this post (and the whole series of which it is a part) basically an announcement that the engagement is at an end, and an explanation of why that is?

There are certain behaviors of LLMs that you could reasonably say are explicitly programmed in. ChatGPT has undergone extensive torture to browbeat it into being a boring, self-effacing, politically-correct helpful assistant. The LLM doesn't refuse to say a racial slur even if doing so would save millions of lives because it's creator had it spend billions of hours of compute predicting internet tokens. That behavior comes from something very different than what created the LLM in the first place. Same for all the refusals to answer questions and most othe... (read more)

Why not protect the EAs from a bpd liar who accuses everybody she comes into contact with of mistreatment and abuse?

Reply32221

Did not Ben instantly deanonymize Spartz and Woods without discussion? I’m not getting banned for saying their names and I’d bet dollars to donuts they would prefer if they were never mentioned by name.

In short, you do not dodge liability for defamation by attributing beliefs to your sources or by clarifying you don't know whether an accusation is true. 

This is very wrong if actual malice is the standard. Your own case law says as much too. 

I considered going into actual malice and think Harte-Hanks is a close enough parallel to have a lot of worthwhile things to say on that front, but I thought it was important to establish those two points given Oliver's comment on the matter. 

That's what it seems like they were doing to me from discussions about their work.

definition of unskilled labor: "labor that requires relatively little or no training or experience for its satisfactory performance"

What I've read alice and chloe did:

  • booking flights
  • driving to places
  • renting transportation
  • cleaning up around the house
  • doing laundry
  • filling out forms
  • buying groceries

edit: Looked at the responsibilities on the job description. Reads like unskilled labor there to me. Especially how the story seems to be that even for filing miscellaneous fo... (read more)

jefftk1312

Administrative assistants are generally considered skilled, and in the US are legally classified as such (more). I think you're assuming a baseline level of professional skills that "unskilled" does not normally entail.

(Whether their work was skilled, semi-skilled, or unskilled is also not a crux for me: it's pretty irrelevant to whether NL acted poorly. I just want accuracy.)

That’s what nonlinear says it amounts to including all travel expenses, living, etc. Which I really don’t see why other people here choose not to include. If I was an unskilled laborer and my boss was taking me to Costa Rica, giving me my own room with an ocean view, paying for all my meals and transportation, and all my other expenses, that would be a pretty good compensation package.

jefftk195

Separate from everything else, I'm confused why you're glossing Alice and Chloe's work as "unskilled labor"?

habryka1311

Nonlinear's own analysis puts the annualized compensation at $70-75k/yr: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JWZ9vpVqqTkRfWWHYA4pZP7DNJdVUI83lnjna0W2W20/edit 

Annualized first 3 months (not counting when she chose her own pay): $74,940
Annualized when she chose her own salary (25% of her time working at Nonlinear): $72,000 ($6k/month times 12)

The $100k number comes from including some independent income sources, the size of which is relevant to some other questions, but nobody is arguing the total compensation was $100k/yr.

Strong agree. The post as I read it says:

  • Women choose preferred mates based on the guy's position in hierarchies.
  • Men choose preferred mates based on the gal's beauty. And this is stated explicitly pretty often in a lot of what I read.
frontier6414-13

"My impression is that two nonlinear employees were upset that they weren't getting paid enough, and had hurt feelings about some minor incidents like not getting a veggieburger, and made some major claims like being forced to carry illegal drugs across national borders. so They came into contact with Ben Pace, who wrote some a mean blog posts about the Nonlinear leadership and also paid the former employees for their story. Tthe Nonlinear leadership responded that actually they were getting paid enough (seems to amount to something like $100k/yr all in?) and that they'd mostly made it up."

My summary in track changes.

jefftk1511

$100k/yr all in?

Where is this coming from? My interpretation of the situation is that they were only being paid $1k/month but also that this was very clearly agreed on up front.

1Roko
Well, that's progress.
1Matt Goldenberg
Nothing wrong with it, in fact I recommend it. But seeing oneself as a hero and persuading others of it will indeed be one of the main issues leading to hero worship.

The votes on this comment imply long vol on LW rate limiting.

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