All of Izeinwinter's Comments + Replies

This is wrong - The body isn't a closed system, but an ongoing exporter of entrophy. There is no fundamental reason why "better repair mechanisms" wouldn't result in an permanent health. I don't like calling this immortality, because.. well, mishap and violence will still get you eventually, but the whole decay and slow dying thing isn't written into the laws of physics or even biology. It's just that Azathoth never had a reason to fix it.

There are better options if you want to go nuclear for propulsion. http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/718391main_Werka_2011_PhI_FFRE.pdf

It's not an unreasonable amount of mass to get into LEO, and so very elegant as a drive.

Eh.. There is indeed work being done on this. Google seawater greenhouse - Which is basically a way to engineer a cooler, wetter micro-climate and turn a net profit.

In this case they would have to change already existing law in a way that is blatantly against the interests of the majority and manage to do so it globally - because if any country defects from a policy of limiting top mods to the upper class, every country has to, or get buried 20 years later. This is not a winnable political struggle.

It can't actually - Medical patents are already borderline in terms of "political viability". A system of patents that gave the rich this kind of advantage would result in the end of patents. Heck, it is already law in many places that you cannot hold IP in human genes.

0V_V
Perhaps. But never underestimate the political clout of the wealthy.

People are in general very, very bad at spotting signs of interest. This is not unique to you. - The non-verbal communication channel for "I'd like to get to know you in a romantic fashion" just does not work very well at all.

Trying to become adept at reading it is, of course, possible but unless you have sky high social intelligence to begin with, I do not recommend it.

What you need to do instead is figure out how to express unambiguous, unmistakable interest in a way that does not scare the shit out of potential romantic partners. If someone ... (read more)

First option doesn't exist. The third world is well and truely aware that science is a thing. As for the second.. Writing someone who is old, but not impaired by decay is very, very difficult, due to lack of examples, but I think this might be less of a leap than it seems. Necessity will force mobility upon our protag, and contact with various cultures will immunize against believing received wisdom without proof. Going from there to "reality is the final arbiter" isn't much of a leap.

.. Now I am trying to think what applicable skills someone re... (read more)

0Richard_Kennaway
George Bernard Shaw wrote some in his play "Back To Methuselah". It is long; search for "Lutestring" (the name of one of the characters) and read forwards from there. Context: Mrs Lutestring and The Archbishop are, covertly, over 250 years old, and their secret (previously not even known to each other) has just come out. The others in the scene are of ordinary ages and, as far as they know, short-lived. Then search onward for the subtitle of act 5, "As Far as Thought can Reach", set in the year 31,920 A.D. (Shaw's speculative mechanism for life extension can be ignored.) And of course there is Lazarus Long.

The thing is, how would you distinguish a world in which the female population of said high-school are missing five centimeters and 4 points of IQ due to dieting from the one we inhabit? Where do we get a baseline from? Arrgh.

1Lumifer
That's no great mystery. Contemporary medicine has a pretty good idea about what kind of deficiencies, caloric and otherwise, stunt growth and IQ. There is a trove of empirical data available, most of it from the third world, and the subject is well-researched. Moreover, the second half of the XX century provided a few natural experiments in which some chronically malnourished populations stopped being malnourished (Japan and Korea come to mind) so we know quite well how it works and what to expect. If you want to do your own empirical research, that's easy, too. All you need is a data set of height and weight for a sample of teenage girls. Off the top of my head, you would start by temporarily discarding the left tail of the distribution (the could-possibly-be-underweight girls) and estimating the scaling factor, the weight/height ratio. That's basically how BMI works except that they got the factor somewhat wrong (for ease of pen-and-paper calculation). Once you know the known-to-be-not-malnourished scaling factor, you go back to the full data set and use the factor to calculate the "fatness" (aka height-adjusted weight) from height and weight -- again, that's basically BMI -- and plot height on the Y axis and fatness of the X axis. If your sample is big enough (or drawn from the appropriate population), you would see that at the extremes the relationship between fatness and height would break down -- in the left tail that would be when malnourishment seen here as very low fat would affect height. Take a sample from someplace like Somalia and you should be able to see it in empirical data easily enough. Take a sample from a Western country and you would have to go far into outliers in the left tail to see that breakdown if it's there at all. People with stunted growth likely exist in the West, but their numbers are miniscule.
1Salemicus
Such a world would not have an incredible 30.4% of girls aged 2-19 being overweight or obese. Like Lumifer, I am stunned at the notion of today's high-school girls being dangerously underfed.
2Douglas_Knight
Follow the citations: malnourishment stunts male height more than female.
2[anonymous]
Wait, what?! There are some bad evo psy, especially the "pop", not actually peer reviewed kind, but to write off the whole discipline... I mean, are you aware it is mostly just about getting ideas from evolution, but their experimental testing is with the methods of "normal" mainstream psychology? This is precisely what the article talks about. After they got these ideas, they tested them with normal psychological tests.
4Lumifer
Eh, no, not plausible. Go to any high school and look at the girls, see how many malnourished to the point of stunted growth you'll find. I am also pretty sure that by late teens IQ is set and undereating will not affect it.

Honestly, I think almost all media treatments of this entire topic will be extremely problematic in hindsight once an actual cure for senescence is found.

In this particular case, I'd expect her to become... very interested in biochemistry. That would be a much better plot, wouldn't it? One woman's fight to cure ageing because she knows for a fact it can be done, but at the same time trying to not end up strapped to a lab table. Heck, for the first period, the fact that women were massively overlooked in science would be outright helpful. - Getting hired ... (read more)

0advancedatheist
If this happened to someone in an undeveloped non-Western country that didn't have much contact with the rest of the world, or in a premodern society several centuries back, the character wouldn't have the ideas to think about his or her situation as a scientific problem. But a reasonably intelligent woman who grew up in the U.S. in the early 20th Century would at least know of the existence of a culture of science that could shed light on her condition. This raises the question of whether a nonaging person encountering science after several centuries would have the abiltiy to absorb the implications of this relatively new and unintuitive way of thinking.

.. Clothes made by people with any sense of pride in craft? I sew for a hobby, and for the purpose of making gifts. - for example I just finished a nice summer jacket for my brothers birthday, english wool, silk lining. Cost to me: <70 euro. (and time, but eh.) I learned to what to do largely by reading on the internet and taking old clothes apart to see how they were built.

The clothes sold to women is depressing as all hell in that regard. Materials, build, functionality - Lowest bidder doesn't begin to describe it. "I don't think you even tried... (read more)

Sure it is, if you are in the vicinity of a donation site on a regular basis anyway. Pop in, donate, read while doing so, pop out again. Warm fuzzies during pleasure reading time.

Warning, my opinion on this may be influenced rather heavily by the fact that I essentially don't notice the donation, nor do I mind needles.

Bad prior. Gang violence is a major murder statistic, but it's pretty far from being "most". Quick googling says: "1 in 6 murders". The most common motive, at 50% is "Argument". So.. men are more likely to escalate those to homocide?

1V_V
Makes sense.

.. The thing that puzzles me here is why Knox was ever prosecuted at all. The prosecution had Guede. Who left his fingerprints all over the scene, fled the country, had a history of burglary and knives and changed his story repeatedly. That's a pretty simple and very solid case. Why the heck the prosecution insisted on trying to pin the crime on two more people who could have no plausible reason at all for conspiring with him is just inexplicable to me. I mean, traces of dna from people who lived in the apartment? Wtf? All that proves is that they indeed, lived there.

The thing that puzzles me here is why Knox was ever prosecuted at all. The prosecution had Guede.

The answer is simple and banal: they didn't get Guede until after they had already decided Knox and Sollecito were guilty. Not prosecuting Knox and Sollecito would have required them not only revise to previous beliefs in which they had become psychologically invested, but also to retract previous public pronouncements -- in short, to admit they had been wrong.

From the inside of their minds, no doubt, Knox and Sollecito just felt so suspicious, in the early... (read more)

2James_Miller
Selection bias in us hearing about it since a foreign government unjustly prosecuting an extremely attractive American girl is going to generate more publicity than if the girl were seen to be probably guilty.

It does address it. What we call heroic action is high combat ability and resources deployed for good. Hermione's point is that privileging that particular class of good works is an error - The proper measure of virtue is if you do the things which fall within your reach. Thinking in terms of heroes is a distraction,

Note that wizarding britain still largely fails hard on this count.

The description of the founding of the wizengamot. War is probably not a very descriptive term for what was going on before it - The political structure implies that it is what came after a period of feuding families. In this case, feuding families with magical might backing up the kind of stupidity bloodfeuds cause.

Actually, the one wow I really do not get all wizards are not under is very simple. Merlin laid down his interdict due to a crisis of magic being used in wars in utterly unrestrained ways. Blocking people from learning certain kinds of magic is a daft way of stopping that. What you do is you take every single wizarding child of 8, and make them swear to never use any magic that would harm more than one person. Still free to fight, still free to defend themselves, just noone capable of area effect magics of destruction anymore.

3fezziwig
How do we know the crisis was war, and not (for example) people gradually reinventing the arts with which the Atlanteans destroyed themselves?

Mostly, resurrecting dead children. The population used to be lower, but kids also used to have piss-poor odds of making it to adult-hood. In terms of QALY, this would have been the best use, and if a child goes missing from a sickbed only to wander into the kitchen feeling chipper and fine, noone would even think twice.

It occurs to me that this limit means Flame could, in theory, have been using the stone flat out for five hundred years without anyone catching on. 56 million people died this year. If the stone was used to save as many of them as possible, at random, then with only moderate use of magic for coverup purposes compared to shit we already know the magical world is pulling of, that is just going to be utterly undetectable. "Here have a second chance at life. Also a magical compulsion to keep your mouth shut".

5Subbak
So what would he have been doing? Saving victims of accident so that they end up being fine after a small hospital stay? Miraculously curing terminally ill people? I find it unlikely that he could do anything else with long-term benefits without anyone catching on. But yeah, I like that alternate character interpretation of Flamel.

Eh.. Voldemort is a legimens. But he isn't an unusually good one at all. He actively dislikes actually reading peoples minds. He simply had a very impressive talent for entirely non-magical cold reading and inference. The wizarding public heard tales of that, and in the same way they failed to consider "hidden broomstick enchantments!" credited him with scary superpowers he didn't actually have.

This is an inference from the text, but a high probability one. - However, it is also stated outright in the text that Harry's mental defenses are nothing special. He's an occlumens, but according to his teacher in that art, who bloody well should know, not a perfect one.

6Velorien
The latter statement isn't evidence for the former. Harry dislikes broomstick riding as an activity, but is still naturally gifted at it, and successful on the occasions when he needs to do it. Here is our best example of Voldemort talking about his abilities: That sounds pretty advanced to me, and the way he speaks of it ("with my command of Legilimency") suggests pride in his abilities as well. Here is Moody talking about Voldemort's abilities, with Dumbledore listening and not disagreeing: We are never told what the wizarding public at large thinks of Voldemort's Legilimency powers, so I don't know where you're getting that argument. And for the record, this is Mr Bester's assessment of Harry: It's also worth noting that while Moody doesn't seem especially impressed at the power of Harry's Occlumency barriers, his only comment is that they are rusty, not that they provide insufficient protection for practical purposes.

No, but moderating the memory charm is foolishness. He isn't even remotely proficient with that charm. He should either have gotten expert help, or gone for a total wipe.

5Vaniver
I think I would have just transfigured him into the jewel without doing the memory charm until much later, but on reflection I think that given Harry's uncertainty about how V's mind transfer system works, doing a substandard memory charm now is better than not doing one at all.

We have some evidence Harry has defense professor permissions and didn't trip any wards because of that. He practiced memory charms. In Hogwarts. If the castle thought of him as a student, that would have set alarms ringing, with professor permissions, no alarms. Not strong evidence, because Harry was Dumbledores pet disaster, and it is entirely possible he'd hear an alarm like that, check up on what Harry was doing, and ignore it as long as he wasn't casting it on students. But it's an implication.

0Astazha
Would you quote me where Harry used obliviate in Hogwarts on someone that would have tripped wards? I don't recall that.

It does. I mean, it's possible "Goblet curse" trumphs Rebirth Magic,

But my preferred theory is that Flamel is Baba Yaga, and Voldemort read that story all wrong because he managed to err on the side of excessive cynicism, which is a lot simpler. No murdering took place at all, just an elopement.

This also explains why Flamel only interferes in politics by teaching chosen champions - She is still bound by the goblet rite on the Battle Magic position, so that is the only way she can oppose dark lords that don't show up at her door and try to kill ... (read more)

0Vaniver
Sure. But we have Word of God that suggested that Baba Yaga would not appear in the story again before the bit where Dumbledore said Flamel was dead. Was that "Baba Yaga won't show up again because 'Flamel', who is actually BY, is about to die offscreen" or "Baba Yaga died six hundred years ago, get over it?" Unclear. But I would suggest that, narratively, the defeat of Baba Yaga by sixth-year Perenelle exists as a clue for the plausibility of the defeat of Voldemort by first-year Harry Potter.

Shorter point: Your argument supposes that Harry - at age 11 - has mental defenses better than Flamel at age >600. Seriously, no. Yes, the resonance, but if Legitimancy was that powerful, he would just have someone else dig through Harry's skull.

2Vaniver
It's almost as if Harry is a mental clone of the most powerful Legilimens in recorded history. ಠ_ಠ

Yhea, two problems with that: 1: I really don't put it past Dumbledore to just lie about everything to Voldemort, and 2:. Flamel had access to the stunt Voldemort pulled on Hermione for a minimum of 500 years, and potentially more like a thousand. I figure good odds killing Flamel just gets you a rebirth in fire phoenix-style and an annoyed arch-wizard.

3Vaniver
Doesn't this also apply to Baba Yaga?

Yhea, that's not a workable approach. Seriously, Flamel is centuries old and has had the key to eternal life for all of that. and the largest hoard of lore on the planet for most of it. Trying to legilimency that mind has the most likely result of you becoming a drooling vegetable. Certainly, its not going to actually work. If it did, it would be point 1 on every single aspiring dark lords to-do list. That's actually my main reason for thinking "Not dead". A lot. Really, just a an absurd number, of people must have already tried this. It doesn't even matter what "It" is. Someone tried that one already. And failed. If Voldemort had attempted it in person? Maaaaybee. A hired hit? Nope.

4SilentCal
I agree with your assessment of how powerful Perenelle/Flamel (side note: need a good portmanteau a la Quirrellmort) should be, having been able to outwit Baba Yaga in her sixth year and then having six hundred years of excellent leverage to accumulate lore and also maybe play with what the stone can do. That objection notwithstanding, the most plausible non-Voldemort killer would be Bellatrix, using her superpower of very strict obedience to orders like "Just use AK and do not hesitate for any reason".
2Vaniver
The relevant section (Ch 108): Perenelle's safety relied on the Stone's uniqueness and hiddenness, which is no longer a factor as far as Quirrell is concerned.

Okay, Harry is really overdoing it here. It would have been much safer to pretend utter ignorance of everything, or at least to limit his reaction to falling over. The scene as set will cause sufficient theorizing without trying to force a particular narrative.

On a meta level: Getting this scene from a bystander means they are not in the mirror. So that's that.

I.. also just realized that "Flamel" can't possibly be dead. The rite Voldemort used on Hermione was not one of his own devising, but a piece of lore well known enough to have a usual res... (read more)

1Vaniver
Had more lore than Voldemort. Legilimency is fun.
0falenas108
That would require getting a hold of and killing a Phoenix, which would be difficult even for Quirrel.

.. My personal guess about Canon parsel-tongue is that it creates a mind in the snake you talk to based loosely on your own - Hence the python in the zoo just wanting to escape it's cramped living situation, and thus the Basilisk in hogwarts being all murdery - it's nothing more than a funhouse mirror of Voldemort.

This was never tested, because Canon Harry has brain damage from starvation and various other psychological trauma inhibiting his thinking, and never even tried asking the basilisk to back off.

The HPMOR basillisk cannot possibly bear any resemblance whatsoever to the canon one anyway, Because that thing couldn't teach anyone anything.

0Jiro
My personal guess about it is that it is that most people attribute to animals a lot more agency than they really have, and the story is written with an authorial worldview that assumes that most people's views on this matter are actually true. Given that worldview, no explanation is needed at all. Of course, that worldview is itself inconsistent, but the inconsistencies have relatively little relevance to talking to snakes.

...I am now!

If you want to extend your life without doing incredibly evil shit, "Adopt long-lived animagus form, shift into it when old, never shift out again" is a fairly straightforward application of magic we know wizarding kind has access to.

One obvious problem is that I doubt Salazar would murder students on request, but heck, Voldemort could have set Myrtle up without his consent.

My original thought was simply that killing the basilisk was just too obvious a problem with the lore deposit, and that for this reason there would be backups.... (read more)

0TobyBartels
In canon, at least, the Basilisk is all into murdering students, suggesting victims and egging on the Heir. Indeed, it is the Basilisk's murderous mutterings in Parseltongue that make Harry aware of it.
0gwern
I believe canon says Animagus forms are not chosen; Salazar would have to be lucky to get the basilisk as his spirit animal rather than a rattlesnake or cobra or something.

That attack wasn't actually magic. Not at the point where he attacked Voldemort. He was literally pulling on a physical thread.

8Transfuturist
He was not pulling, he was transfiguring it shorter. And IIRC transfigured materials cause the resonance regardless.
4Astazha
But it was transfigured by Harry's magic. There does not appear to have been a resonance from it, though, which surprised me.
0Vaniver
I mean when he transfigured Voldemort into something to take with him. (That did happen, right? Or did I misinterpret that?)

There is no point in adopting it as a plan because it is what will happen if he does nothing at all. It's a reason to not do certain things- such as point this possibility out, but not in and of itself any kind of plan.

1Kawoomba
"No action" is an action, same as any other (for a grokkable reference, see consequentialists and the Trolley experiment). Also, obviously it wouldn't be "no action" it would be selling Voldemort the idea that there's nothing left, maybe revealing the secret deemed most insignificant and then begging for that to apply to both parents.

He doesn't need to kill them - Thats why I went with "Really bright light". Voldemort ordered them all to keep their eyes on him, so any visual effect will hit every single one of them at light speed.

And he is wearing magically secured glasses. Wait, he may have prepared this as an attack... Welding goggles, mirrored sunglasses.

Oh. For. Swears Loudly

I just thought of the silliest solution ever. I don't want to assign this a probability, except "Low, unless EY really just has to poke fun at the Basilisk brouhaha". He's brought Slytherin... (read more)

0TobyBartels
Wait, are you suggesting that Slytherin's Basilisk is Salazar Slytherin, in Animagus form? (Edit: spelling.)

Thing is, dying isn't the worst tactical option here.

There is a chance buying the farm will just throw Harry into the horcruxi. Not certain enough to do it deliberately, but enough that any plan you come up with has to be better than the option of

"Do nothing, die, hope to hang out in the horcruxi until Voldemort buys it again, let resonance remove you both from play"

Which is a non-negligible bar to clear. Telling him a trick which might be the power he knows not to buy another minute of breathing doesn't pass muster. Telling him of the possi... (read more)

Trolls do grow up, as previously notied. That's not the most likely way for that to be a problem. Rather the reverse. I mean, if troll regen runs off your genetic template, there is a good chance she is going to wake up as the prime-of-life (22?) adult version of herself, and continuously revert to that. I would even call it likely, except that from a meta perspective it would cause.. squicky.. reactions.

5Velorien
Point of pedantry, but we don't actually know that. It is possible that they spawn into existence full-grown as part of some magical process (fission, perhaps), or that their regenerative powers don't activate until they've grown to adult size. For the latter, it's not like they don't have enough other natural defenses to protect them until they reach adulthood.

.. sigh the point is survival. A radiation pulse will hurt Harry the most, and will not be immediately obvious to people not fried by it. The idea is to disable opposition and summon help.

In the event no help instantly materializes, dodge and start the incantation for fiendfire - it doesn't actually matter if you can't cast it. Everyone present will recognize it, and to a blinded wizard, fleeing should be utterly reflexive at that point.

Yes, but given that he might be tied to the horcrux network, that is strictly a more dire defeat than just letting Voldemort kill him. There is a chance his demise will poison the horcruxi for Voldemort - if they are both in there, that should obviously set of the resonance, and that is the end of the dark lord. This is useless as a strategy because if it works at all, it is what will happen if he just does nothing, But bringing it to Voldemort's attention is a loosing move.

I spent a fair bit of time thinking of things to tell Voldemort to get him to stop... (read more)

Mostly I brought it up because people keep suggesting anti-matter. Anti matter could be mistaken for a nuclear weapon, which could escalate to WWIII, so the wow means he can't use it anymore. A pure light pulse wont set off those warning systems. Or at least, not at the level I'm thinking of.

9skeptical_lurker
A small antimatter explosion would not be mistaken for a nuclear weapon. In fact, a big antimatter explosion might be mistaken for a nuclear weapon, but since a missle would not have been detected, no-one would no who to retaliate against, and so retaliation would be delayed long enough for people to realise that there is no fallout and so it cannot be nuclear.
3bramflakes
Nitpick - antimatter will also produce a pure light pulse, just the wavelengths are much shorter than the visible spectrum.

Buffing the dark lord further is not an option. There is tonnes of things Harry could infer and then tell him that would make him delay. But this would be trading moments of life for further fucking over the world. Not a good trade.

1jkadlubo
He would tell he can do it, but not necessarily how it works. Of course knowing that problem is solvable facilitates solution, but since we know the solution, we also know it would take time for Voldemort to find and use it. So it is buffing, but with a time delay. That's why I think it's the simplest solution. Quirrelmort did start reading a book on physics, but is certainly far from understanding it deeply enough to do partial transfiguration. This move would simply buy Harry time. It won't solve the problem of Voldemort threatening the world, but will keep Harry alive, which is the objective of this quest. OK, then use that to buy Harry's own life. My idea was more about Harry buying his own life than telling about partial transfiguration.

Lets see..

Notes: EY didn't say that noone was aware of what was happening, just that anyone who would help Harry think he is at the game. Given the prophecy about Harry, this has disturbing implications.

Anyway: Obstacles: 39 minions in not-defensively enchanted blacks. One dark lord who can't use magic on you, but who can shoot your ass, An absolute prohibition on moves that could escalate to world threatening levels.

Assets: Naked pasty english lad. Wand. Parseltongue.

.. You know, normally in this sort of situation I'd recommend talking. Parselton... (read more)

4CodingHare
Is it? Harry only took the vow moments ago--before that point, actions he was taking could have lead to the end of the world, and those action's consequences may still be in motion. The Vow only forces Harry to inaction if he knows he is at risk of causing the end of the world, as well. World ending may still be on the table.
2jkadlubo
Could he tell Voldemort aout partial transfiguration and request his own life spared?

He is the hogwarts headmaster. I figure they defied him in that capacity quite sufficiently. Heck, possibly even in his capacity as head honcho of the Ootp

The theory is that the prophecy was always about him - or at least that it was always a possible read on it, in the same way as Neville could have been the prophecied child. That is why it was spoken in his presence, not in Voldemorts. It isn't cheating, it is settling the open question. And well, he told people it was about Voldemort because letting it be known that you suspect you are a dark lord with... (read more)

0LauralH
The prophecy was only heard by Severus and Minerva.

And since todays temp work was impressively mindless, I got rather a lot of thinking done.

Fair warning, this may well just be heading right into epileptic trees turf.

Dumbledore just cast himself from time in order to fulfill the prophecy about Harry Potter.

That line about how Harry will have to find some other dark lord to vanquish? It was not about the far future at all, it was about the next four minutes.

Let me explain: As long as the prophecy is in play, only Harry can defeat the dark lord. And that is not going to work against Voldemort. An 11 year... (read more)

0jefftk
How does the fake Cloak hide you from the Mirror?

General Theorem: This series of chapters ought to be named "Tom Riddle and the Illusion of VIctory".

Voldemort has a nigh-absolute escape hatch. He can escape nearly any defeat, any trap, simply by dying. Possibly it's even worse than that, and he can abandon bodies at will.

He also has a strong tendency to discount the intelligence of anyone who is not him.

The order of the pheonix was operating under the theory that he was a body-jumper from the word go.

The traps laid, the strategems in place are predicated on the central principle of allowing ... (read more)

0WalterL
Adding to this theory, what does Dumbledore mean when he says he's in the mirror AND at Flamel's mirror? Just a Time Turner use, or is Dumbledore still in play?
027chaos
Wow, I certainly hope you're right. I love the ideas you've mentioned as possible traps.

Okay, either we are still running sims in the mirror, or Dumbledore hexed the ever loving fuck out of that cloak. Voldemort is acting like he just took an enormous dose of Bhal's.

Or.. he can't kill Harry, and knows it? It's plausible, as about a million people have suggested it that killing Harry would send him into Voldemort's horcruxen, which might be bad.. but no, there are lots of not-fatal at all ways of putting a stop to that prophecy...

3Astazha
Not killing Harry has been confusing me for a long time now. I still don't get it.

Voldemort isn't that good a coder - It's a continually updating system, that loads his present mindstate onto the entire system.. And he just rekeyed it to Hermione. All backups and lore: Gone.

Dumbledore loaded the cloak with Bhals stupefication, didn't he? Some delivery mechanism that only tiggered when worn by an adult. Hence the mad cackling and very poor plan for stopping Harry from breaking the universe <,<

0GeraldMonroe
I agree that Voldemort seems to be holding the idiot ball this chapter. With that said, you'd kind of expect an immortal god-wizard who's 10 steps ahead to be buffed with poison and magic protections up the wazoo, etc.
8Phigment
This is a completely excellent suggestion. Dumbledore, knowing that Harry was an expected pawn in Voldemort's plans, just booby-traps all the personal possessions that Voldemort would logically want to deprive Harry of, like the cloak, his wand, his pouch, his time-turner, Hermione's corpse... In the same vein, booby-trap the Philosopher's stone. Coat it in a fine layer of contact poison, so that anyone who managed to retrieve it from the mirror and handled it with bare skin would get whammied. Then, if you actually win, wear gloves.

The thing is, my reasoning doesn't actually depend on the horcrux realization, tough I give it better than even odds they knew that long before he even got the Hogwarts letter. Like, some time around the bitten math teacher or the science fair incident.

The cloak is the obvious counter to the mirror. Using it isn't some super-obscure piece of lore. The mirror has power over things reflected, the cloak removes you from that category. Put yourself in Dumbledores shoes as you are packaging up that thing after spending oceans of time and effort setting up the ... (read more)

Been thinking this through all day now.

Situation at the start of the school year: The stone is in the mirror, and it is anticipated Voldemort will be attempting to retrive it. Dumbledore is in possession of the true cloak of invisibility, and has "Flamel" on speed dial. Harry is known to be a harrycrux, which means Voldemort will either be taking over his body, or at least checking up on him.

There is no way Dumbledore gives Harry the cloak without anticipating Voldemort using it against the mirror. He wasn't obligated to hand that thing over ... (read more)

0Astazha
I do assume that Dumbles operates on extensive access to prophecy as well as his own plotting, so it's possible that he gave Harry the cloak because he know this is required even if he doesn't know why. One possibility I've been kicking around is that Harry will destroy this world with Quirrell in it (and the stars themselves) to take out all of his horcruxes, but will transport himself and much of the rest of the world into a mirror realm first. The mirror and it's contents will survive, and Quirrell will be left out of the mirror world escape because the cloak is covering him. I can't really make the details work in my head, but it's a scenario where the cloak becomes a liability to Quirrell.
3gjm
Supposing (though it might be wrong) that mirror-Dumbledore is speaking truth, it's not clear that he realises what Harry is until that point in ch17 where he starts laughing. Which is after Harry has received the cloak. (And, I think, after D. has promised not to take it away from him -- though he hasn't promised not to require him to store it somewhere secure away from Hogwarts.)

Honestly, it sounds like sarcasm. Dumble is even stranger than usual this chapter.

1Viliam_Bur
"Stranger than usual" could be an evidence for not being the real Dumbledore, but instead Voldemort's imaginary Dumber-dore. We were already shown in the chapter that Voldemort had a wrong model of him. (Maybe acting like insane was Dumbledore's long-term strategy to prevent his enemies from simulating him precisely. But that seems rather paranoid. On the other hand, he sometimes works with Moody.)

.... Okay, I've got nothing. They are.. still in the mirror?

Dumbledore was acting very strange. The part of my mind that spits out theories is going "If Dumbledore can employ future-scrying-based planning techniques, please fuck off, I refuse to anticipate the plots of gods"

Edit: After bullying my imaginary voices. for a bit:

...I'm not at all sure Dumbledore was even there! Arrgh. "Illusion" is way up there in the plausible theories range. A whole ten percent or so.

The cloak is an obvious counter to a mirror trap.. But Dumbledore put... (read more)

2Izeinwinter
Been thinking this through all day now. Situation at the start of the school year: The stone is in the mirror, and it is anticipated Voldemort will be attempting to retrive it. Dumbledore is in possession of the true cloak of invisibility, and has "Flamel" on speed dial. Harry is known to be a harrycrux, which means Voldemort will either be taking over his body, or at least checking up on him. There is no way Dumbledore gives Harry the cloak without anticipating Voldemort using it against the mirror. He wasn't obligated to hand that thing over to a first year, as opposed to hiding it under the proverbial rock in Greenland. Probability this was a misstep so low I can't be bothered to calculate it. It isn't just that he would have to miss the potential interaction here, every other person involved in building the trap would have to also miss it. For an entire year. So it's a plot. This is the point where my certainties become less certain - I think what is going on is that the trap is set up to give Voldemort the false impression of victory at every step of the way while at the same time trying to take him off the board in various ways. This is being done to avoid him fleeing via blowing up Quirell's skull. This means either Dumbledore was a fake of some kind or if actually there, that he lied through his teeth agreeing with every point of fact Quirrel brought up in order to convey zero actual information. Beyond that I thought of so many possibilities for what the actual trap could be that my head is currently spinning. Option one : The True Cloak of invisibility is no such thing. They made a ringer. Option two: They flat out just cursed the darn thing. Option tree: The cloak has funny interactions with spirits, and the entire point is to kill voldemort while he is wearing it. Option 4.. you get the point. I also think that there are likely plots in motion not related to the mirror at all - it would fit dumbledore's style to attack this problem at every possibl

dying while wearing it would shield him from his own hocruxes or something?

holy crap, awesome you noticed this. Seems plausible.

The phrasing is that nothing can be taken from anyone protected by the contract. Not that gifts or trade are forbidden, Which means that if BY drops a note to the effect that she is subcontracting her responsibilities as battle magic teacher into the goblet that particular teacher is granted forbearance. So as long as the goblet was in a place she could get at, no curse.

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