All of Jade's Comments + Replies

Jade00

You're referring to the phrase "many villages were ravaged by the killing of the Arabs of Muhammad", written after Muhammad's supposed death, "Arabs of Muhammad" meaning 'Muslims' the way "people of Christ" means 'Christians'. That Muslims and Christians existed doesn't mean the characters they invoked to justify violence, supremacism, etc. existed as actual humans.

Criteria for considering Muhammad and Jesus near certain are so lax, we'd have to consider some Greek/Roman gods near certain.

1Lumifer
So you're arguing that by 632 the violent and supremacist Arab hordes were justifying their violence and supremacism by inventing an imaginary prophet who lived merely a few decades before (so some of "his" contemporaries were still alive). Because they were so tricksy they made him not a terribly appealing character -- an illiterate merchant's apprentice who married a cougar and then went a bit crazy -- and attributed to him a whole book of poetry clearly written while on acid. And hey -- it worked! Their creation (I guess it was a joint effort -- takes a village and all that..?) was so successful that it caused the fastest massive conquest in human history. An interesting theory.
Jade00

Then why don't you just point to evidence of his existence being more likely than others'? We have bodily remains, intact own writings, or historical records made during the lives of many born in 6th century, e.g. Columbanus, Pope Gregory I, founding emperor of Tang Dynasty, Radegund, Venantius Fortunatus, Theodora). So why don't we have any one of those types of evidence about Muhammad?

1Lumifer
You don't count the Koran as "intact own writings"? :-) Yes, I am well aware that it was compiled quite some time after his death from a collection of records and that, by tradition, Muhammad was illiterate. The Arab society around VII century wasn't big on writing -- the cultural transmission was mostly oral. However external sources mention Muhammad already in 636 AD.
Jade00

Historical Muhammad not certain: http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB122669909279629451 . Of course, people have set about trying to protect minds from a 'fringe' Bayesian view: "Prof. Kalisch was told he could keep his professorship but must stop teaching Islam to future school teachers." In case anyone missed it, Richard Carrier explicitly used Bayes on question of historical Jesus. I don't know if Kalisch used Bayes, but his language conveys intuitive Bayesian update.

The bearing of fictional stories is simple: calculate probabilities of historical X... (read more)

1Lumifer
What's your comparison baseline? Compared to the screen in front of your face, he's not certain. Compared to pretty much anyone born in the VI century, he is quite certain.
0gjm
I did say almost certain. My impression -- which, as I said above, is no more than that and could easily be very wrong -- is that the Jesus-myth theories require less "conspiracy" than the Muhammad-myth ones.
Jade20

You left out the 'magical' part of my question. If magical beings exist(ed), then everything becomes more mysterious. That's partly why we don't pester JK Rowling about what extra-special boy Harry Potter was based on. We don't even suspect comic superheros like Batman, who has no magic, to have been based on a real-life billionaire. We certainly don't have scholars wasting time looking for evidence of 'the real Batman.' Modern stories of unlikely events are easily taken as imaginings, yet when people bucket a story as 'old/traditonal', for some people, th... (read more)

0Salemicus
No, I didn't leave that part out. Of course magic makes everything else more mysterious i.e. P(magical Jesus) is infinitesimal. But P(non magical Jesus) is not low. We do ask JK Rowling what non magical boy inspired Harry Potter.
Jade20

Would you say the origins of other religions become more mysterious if there never were whatever magical beings those religions posit? Would you think it likely that Guanyin was real human of unknown gender? Do the origins of fictional stories become more mysterious if there never were the fictitious characters in the flesh? Did Paul Bunyan exist, as there were similar lumberjacks?

You're not supposed to tie yourself to any hypothesis, even if mainstream, but rather update your probability distributions. Bits of the NT weren't written until long enough afte... (read more)

0Salemicus
Yes, of course. The least mysterious explanation of Paul Bunyan stories is that there really was a Paul Bunyan. And the closer the real Paul Bunyan hews to the Bunyan of the stories, the smaller the mystery. P(stories about Bunyan | Bunyan) > P(stories about Bunyan | !Bunyan). But just because a story is simple, doesn't necessarily make it likely. We can't conclude from the above that P(Bunyan | stories about Bunyan) > P(!Bunyan | stories about Bunyan).
1Salemicus
Neither sufficient nor necessary: * The origins of Christianity become more mysterious, not less, if there never was a Jesus. * We don't need to tie ourselves to a fringe hypothesis to posit non-supernatural origins for the Gospels.
0entirelyuseless
This is not following the advice of the parent comment, since we do not yet have a Joseph Smith Myth theory.
Jade90

elharo was referring to 'veil of ignorance,' a concept like UDT applied by Rawls to policy decision-making.

Jade00

From what I've learned about brains, the left brain is engaged in symbolic thinking about a problem, which engages more logical, methodical problem-solving. For a combination that you won't arrive at through that approach, you have to give your brain, apparently involving activation of the right dorsolateral prefrontal cortex and other right-brain parts, more time to integrate info from stored memory or lower-level processed stimuli or to make novel associations related to the problem. When left prefrontal cortex is engaged in focusing on performing a ta... (read more)

Jade20

Infants' behaviors predicted by Bayesian models

There's another argument that Bayesian theories of brains are just-so stories where whatever happens is optimal, the response being that Bayesian modelling is not the same as implying that brains are optimal, the counter-response being that "many Bayesian researchers often appear to be make claims regarding optimality". Finally, there's a call for unification between Bayesian and non-Bayesian theories: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21864419

Jade00

Why assume I was using a continuum? Is a continuum necessary? Even if we must put them on a continuum, why assume the order you've assumed? We could, for example, base the continuum on how wrong their theories of humans are, in which case, it would be difficult, if not impossible, to lump the individuals into those three categories and place them on the continuum.

Any more excuses or unnecessary assumptions for me to dispel? I have yet to see a better theory or counter-evidence not accounted for by my theory. Instead, I see just-so theories pigeon-holi... (read more)

3A1987dM
Even if by “Creeps/rapists/PUAs” you meant to point at points along a continuum, and the connotation that said points are close together was unintentional, you got the order wrong, as rapists ought to be at one extreme rather than in the middle.
pjeby210

What do you know about them [creeps, rapists, PUAs] that makes them like apples and oranges in your mind?

I was originally going to argue with wedrifid and say he was being uncharitable in interpreting your statement as considering all three groups to be basically the same: my interpretation was that you meant "some creeps, some rapists, and some PUAs", and your statement could then be read in a meaningful light.

However, this new question suggests that you did in fact mean to lump all three groups of people together as a single category, so I'm... (read more)

Jade-30

We don't have to "casually demote" anything. Like Fox News says, "we report -- you decide."

Generally, "need" is used to refer to something perceived to be necessary in an optimization process. There are cases where a human doesn't need companionship, let alone sex (see recluses or transcendentalists' recommendations that persons isolate themselves from society for a while to clear their heads of irrationalities).

If "the average case" involves little luminosity of sexuality and lots of sexualization of beings, then ... (read more)

Nornagest110

Nice Guy and Nice Gal are idealized gender roles for an optimal society.

I think we're talking past each other here. The "Nice Guy (tm)" phenomenon I was referring to is categorically not an idealized gender role within an optimal or any other society, hence the sarcasm trademark, although it has its roots in (a misinterpretation of) one idealized masculinity. Instead, it's a shorthand way of describing the pathology you described in the ancestor: the guy in question (there are women who do similar things, but the term as I'm using it is tied... (read more)

Jade70

Your theory fails to account for cases of creepiness among men surrounded by their targets (women, children, men, whatever). See my explanation.

0hg00
I agree. I'm not sure what fraction of creepy behavior is explained by my theory. BTW, you might like this comment.
4Barry_Cotter
This comment is the first that has ever made me want to build an army of sock puppets for downvoting purposes, not that I shall do so.
wedrifid230

That Readercon example points out an irrationality in the thinking of some creeps/rapists/PUAs

Seriously? Creeps/rapists/PUAs. People kept reading after that introduction?

A1987dM220

"sex is a need."

Taboo “need”. Yes, it's not necessary for survival; but homeless people can survive too, and still not many people say stuff like “shelter is not a need” or “stop acting like you're entitled to shelter”. (But I still agree no-one is expected to give you a sleeping place solely because you think you are a decent person.)

I mean, Maslow put it in the bottom layer of his pyramid... (Though the fact that he separately lists “sexual intimacy” higher up means that by “sex” in the bottom layer he likely meant the kind of sex that even prostitutes can give.)

Nornagest190

I'm not sure I'm entirely comfortable with this line of thinking. Sexuality isn't a physical need in the sense that, say, water is a physical need, but it is a pretty fundamental drive. It certainly doesn't morally oblige any particular person to fulfill it for you (analogously, the human need for companionship doesn't oblige random strangers to accept overtures of friendship), but it's sufficiently potent that I'd be cautious about casually demoting it below other social considerations, let alone suggesting sexual asceticism as a viable solution in the ... (read more)

6hg00
Do you want to taboo "want" and "need"?
Jade20

Metaphysics is when one tries to understand macrophysics. Symbols are from how conscious beings process and use info, which they do in different places and with different bodies/processors encoded with info from all their previous places all the way back to the beginning or infinity. All these differences are what I refer to as "perspectivism," which we have to correct for in trying to understand macrophysics and in helping beings.

I can think of only one way in which a human can output a TOE useful to other humans: there being plenty of cosmic ... (read more)

Jade40

Does it work for understanding non-human peoples?

Jade00

Looking "good" is still based on priors, which in anorexics, vegans, and ascetics usually involve perceptions of costs their brains subconsciously figure would be reduced if people ate less, ate less meat, or consumed less of everything.
Some vegans feel disgust when thinking of meat, even lab meat
"Disgust as embodied moral judgment"

Generally, all signaling is good from the perspective of the signaler's brain, which may be updated, like when Buddha left groups of ascetics to continue optimizing.

Jade20

One reason for privileging the laws of physics is revealed to be the product of a confused metaphysical picture.

I have a fix for others' "confused metaphysical pictures." It's another (moving) picture: an updated, more complex, dynamic version of Powers of Ten (that includes info that came out of different humans and at least one non-human animal and a computer -- to convey perspectivism). But it's in my head and I don't have the skills to express it through multimedia production & distribution. Help?

Jade50

When asked for favorites or 'what do you like to do for fun,' I offer recommendations (for myself and/or the questioner). Or, to help the questioner generate recommendations, I give recent likes, potential likes, and/or liked/disliked characteristics. This way, we have ideas of what to do in the future and don't get stuck on past interests or activities that have become boring. The NY Times website also uses the word “recommend,” instead of “like,” on its Facebook-share button. [If you didn’t know this already: information about your preferences may be ... (read more)

Jade00

Another way to get one category instead of two... Think of boredom as a signal of not incorporating new, useful physical info. Breathing and thinking (usefully) are not boring because those processes facilitate the body's exploitation or incorporation of physical info. In other words, boredom arises from a lack of novelty on the level of physics, though the process of breathing may seem repetitive or non-novel on the level of biomechanics.

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