All of JEB_4_PREZ_2016's Comments + Replies

Well that was one hell of a read. For some reason it reminded me of this old classic by Eliezer. Thanks for sharing.

2bogus
Another 'old classic' by esr, that's quite related to Eliezer's point.

I'm enjoying these posts. Each time it's another red pill. Well done!

0bogus
I agree. I also like your username!

This is a remarkably good post with which I couldn't have more fully resonated. Thank you!

There's a reason the saying "If you have to ask for the price, it's too expensive for you" exists.

That saying has more to do with poor people not having the purchasing power of rich people and less to do with rich people and their lack of stinginess.

A huge reason why lottery winners go broke is that they don't earn more money

False. Most jackpot winners (and almost all of the ones that go broke), come from the lower and less educated classes. If they were to invest their entire prize in passive investments and live off the annual return... (read more)

All [long-term] wealthy people care about price differences. They'd go broke if they didn't (see lottery winners). Even billionaires don't just throw their money around, because their money is still scarce and they want to spend it so as to maximize their expected utility.

Replacing bread with wine doesn't change anything; if a billionaire slightly prefers one type of wine to another, he doesn't arbitrarily pay a ton more for it. He pays the market price.

0ChristianKl
There's a reason the saying "If you have to ask for the price, it's too expensive for you" exists. A huge reason why lottery winners go broke is that they don't earn more money, there are other rich people who do earn money and who spent it lavishly.

Alice would probably not want to pay $1,000 for a loaf that she prefers only slightly to the $1 loaf. She'd likely be willing to pay $1.05 or $1.10 for it. And Bob would be willing to pay $2 or $3 or maybe even $4 since he wants it so badly.

0philh
I did not intend that to be taken literally. I picked an extreme example to make the effect intuitively obvious, not because it was realistic. If you think the effect doesn't exist, or is too small to be worth mentioning, at realistic levels, then that seems worth saying. But it doesn't seem very interesting to say that my example was unrealistic. There exists an amount that Bob can value a loaf of bread, where he's willing to pay $1 but not $2. Nothing I said is inconsistent with Bob valuing the bread at that level.
0ChristianKl
Some billionaire's like Warren Buffet do care about the price difference between a $1,000 and a $1 loaf but many don't. It might be more clear when you replace "loaf of bread" with wine.
0Laoch
No you won't... ...because the configuration of life that refers to itself as you will be gone.

Should LessWrong have been more open to political discourse? Might that have boosted popularity during its heyday and helped to offset the exodus of Eliezer and company?

4hellointernet
No.
2ChristianKl
Popularity with the wrong kind of people (people who only come for politics) produces noise.

my utility function tells me to

I agree with the first sentence. "Akrasia" is just the brain being [quite reasonably] unsure whether its long-term goals are really worth the effort.

where are the stupids? Half of the population is below the median intelligence, where are they? Where do they work? What kind of jobs do they take?

Clearly you've never worked at a big corporation.

0Lumifer
Your username is delicious :-) But low-IQ people won't do well in a large corporation. They are not that good at covering their asses and are not very valuable as minions. A large corp will probably have difficulties getting rid of them (for a variety of reasons), but it's not their natural habitat.

And I still don't understand why would I want to become an ideal utility maximizer.

If you could flip a switch right now that makes you an ideal utility maximizer, you wouldn't do it?

0Lumifer
Who gets to define my utility function? I don't have one at the moment.
0entirelyuseless
I would never flip a switch like that.

Also worth noting: LWers should be extracting more utility from their money than non-LWers.

But on a baseline day I consume between 1 and 1.5 gallons of water alone, not counting any water in the food I eat, or any other beverages such as almond milk.

That's an absurd amount of water (not from food) to be consuming every day.

I think my "no free will believing self" causes me to model my future self more pessimistically, albeit more accurately, than my "free will believing self" used to.

More specifically, I now pretty much by default see my future self as destined to fail at achieving my current goals due to hyperbolic discounting and, among other things, unexpectedly low willpower striking at random times and lasting for random periods. So, my focus is mainly on continual massive upfront investment during the good times (the rare days when I've got an ab... (read more)

4Daniel_Burfoot
... you sound like a smart guy, but you are going to have a hard time being taken seriously here with that username.

Well, you value whatever you're doing instead of going to the gym more than you value saving the world is what I was getting at. People value their own expected utility more than they value societal expected utility, even if most individuals in society would be better off if everyone somehow valued societal expected utility. Seems reasonably likely to me anyways.

Perhaps I misunderstood you; now it seems like you were saying "why do we hyperbolic discount?" or something to that effect.

"I would generalize the question, because the generalization applies broadly - whatever we profess to value, whatever we believe we value, why aren't we expending more time and energy actually creating that value?"

Okay I'll bite.

0buybuydandavis
I'm not going to the gym because of the tragedy of the commons? I really don't think that's it.

I've always thought it was interesting to think what you would actually do with eternity... You could have kids...like 1,000 >kids. And fall in love every week. And win Nobel Prizes in everything. And travel to the edge of the Universe. Or create >your own Universe and be the God of it. Etc. Etc. There might be thousands of years of novelty in that. Maybe millions. >But the returns are diminishing. Just think of all the amazing stuff we completely ignore and are bored with already.

I understand that boredom is an issue for many people, but I nev... (read more)

0Brillyant
Scope insensitivity seems to be a strong possibility here.

If a dude's ordering half a dozen hookers to his room, he doesn't mind publicity for it.

The question is, how much of this sentiment among the elderly is based on it being improbable that there will be affordable replacement organs or other "anti-aging" technologies in their lifetimes?

Some of us 20-somethings are trying to decide whether to (A) go into YOLO mode or (B) sacrifice utility for the next 60 years in order to maximize expected utility for the next 1,000.

If you enter into a short sale at time 0 and cover at time T, you get paid interest on your collateral or margin requirement by the lender of the asset. This is called the short rebate or (in the bond market) the repo rate. As the short seller, you'll be required to pay the time T asset price along with lease rate, which is based on the dividends or bond coupons the asset pays out from 0 to T.

So, if no dividends/coupons are paid out, it's theoretically possible for you to profit from selling short despite no change in the underlying asset price.

0Douglas_Knight
The lease rate is an interest rate (ie, based on time) in addition to the absolute minimum payment of the dividends issued. It is set by the market: there is a limited supply of shares available to be borrowed for shorting. For most stocks it is about 0.3% for institutional investors, but 5% for a tenth of stocks. The point is that this is an asymmetry with buying a stock. Now that I look it up and see that it is 0.3%, I admit that is not so big, but I think it is larger than the repo rate. I see no reason for the lease rate to be related to inflation, so in a high inflation environment, you could make money by shorting a stock that did not change nominal price. (Dividends are not a big deal in shorting because the price of a stock usually drops by the amount of the dividend, for obvious reasons.)

Makes sense. Thanks for the reply.

If you asked me whether I'd like to live another thousand years (assuming no physical or mental degradation), I'd ask >myself "Why would I want to live 1,000 years?" and, failing to find an answer, decline.

Isn't the obvious answer, "because, assuming your life isn't unbearably bad, living the next 1,000 years has higher expected utility than not living the next 1,000 years?"

Responses like yours confuse me because they seem to confidently imply that the future will be incredibly boring or something. It's possible, but the opposite could also be true. And even if it was unexpectedly bad, you'd still likely be able to opt out at any time.

0Epictetus
We don't have accurate predictions about what the next 1,000 years are going to look like. Any probability calculation we make will be mostly influenced by our priors; in other words, an optimist would compute a good expected utility while a pessimist would reach the opposite result. I'm saying that if there's nothing impressive about my life in the present or the past, then I'm not one to expect much more out of the future. Some people have a cause or goal and would like to live long enough to see it through--good for them, I say. I harbor no such vision myself. It's possible that something comes up at a later time and, over the course of 1,000 years (say), it seems rather likely that at some point I'd encounter that feeling. It's equally likely that something unavoidably bad comes up. On balance, I'm indifferent.

Significant lifespan extension would change all of our cultural norms so much that it isn't realistic to expect non-nerds to begin to wrap their heads around it in any meaningful way. And they sure as hell can't be expected to change their minds about any of their core beliefs/values, let alone the fact that they don't want to live "forever."

Honestly, do people in the West really think Arabs actually believe 100% of the nonsense they spout?

Yes. Maybe not 100%, but 75-95%.

1[anonymous]
Let me attempt to phrase this well: people in the West believe that one shows status through high-handedness, by concealing emotions and not getting riled-up. People in the Middle East believe that one shows status through bombast and braggadocio. They mostly know the nonsense they're spouting is nonsense, but in their minds, they'd be weak and low-status not to spout it, even in the expectation that nobody would really believe it (because it's nonsense).