All of JScott's Comments + Replies

JScott30

Applause lights. You should really read the sequences.

It took me a moment to understand that you were creating a parody. I'm not sure if that moment was indicative of EHeller, in fact, being on to something.

Anyway, on the original comment - yes, there was a little bit of tu quoque involved. How could I not? It was just too deliciously ironic. Even when accusing someone else of failing to formalize and test their ideas, it's easy to fail at formalizing and testing ideas. It's not meant (entirely) as a tu quoque - just as a warning that it really is easy ... (read more)

0[anonymous]
I rather doubt that. It's probably just you confusing the map for the territory. Okay, okay, I'm done. >>
JScott40

There also appears to be an unspoken contempt for creating novel work. Lots of conjecture that such-and-such behavior may be signaling, and such-and-such belief is a result of such-and-such bias, with little discussion of how to formalize and test the idea.

Can you think of any ways to formalize and test this idea?

2EHeller
Of course- here is a simple test. Go through discussion threads classifying them as apparently novel/not novel, and attempts to test ideas/conjecture. Check ratios. Compare the karma of the different categories. Obviously, its not a perfect test, but its good enough to form the belief I shared in my post. And of course, I didn't suggest that every idea needs to be formalized or tested- merely that there is not enough present here for Less Wrong to develop from a source of popularization of other's ideas into a forum for the creation of novel ideas about rationality.
1[anonymous]
Applause lights. You should really read the sequences.
JScott90

Not a large number; this is mostly gathered from discussions on internet forums. The sites I hang around on are generally science-fiction related in nature. While there are a few people who know of LW and think it has something valuable, many (relatively high-status) members think of it as being overly "self-important" or "full of hot air"; most don't outright disagree with the overall point (or never pin down their disagreement exactly), but state that the jargon makes LW useless, or that it states obvious things in a pretentious way, ... (read more)

3Swimmy
I've linked LW several times on a (videogame) forum and the reaction has been mostly positive. A few are regular readers now, though I don't believe any participate in discussion. I think two have read most of the sequences. At least one regularly links EY articles on Facebook. Another small sample, of course. And I haven't really linked articles on FAI/MWI/cryonics.

I've tried to get a family member to read parts of the Sequences in hopes of getting to a point where we could resolve a long-standing disagreement, but they don't show much interest in it.

In my experience, it works far better to internalize the message of a text and then communicate the pieces of that message that are relevant to my discussions with people as they come up, than to point people to the text.

Of course, it's also a lot more work, and not all discussions (or relationships) are worth it.

JScott350

Long time lurker, first time poster here.

My general impression of the general impression of LW is that it's an Eliezer Yudkowsky fanclub. Essentially, if you ask anyone what they think of Eliezer Yudkowsky, you'll know what they think of LW - which is unfortunate, because lots of people seem to think EY is "full of hot air" or "full of himself" or "a self-important wanker", and this maps on to their attitude about LW.

7taw
I think EY is a self-important wanker, and SIAI is a society for self-important wanking, but I enjoy LW quite a lot. (and if you see LW as anything more than entertainment, you're doing it wrong) And lukeprog is entirely wrong about LW being mainstream - there are parts of LWian beliefs that are "mainstream", but a lot of them are anything but. Cryonics, AI foomism, weird decision theories etc. - that's all extremely far from the mainstream, and also very wrong. Bayesian fundamentalism is also non-mainstream. Yes, Bayes rule is all neat, but it isn't the answer to universe and everything.

For what it's worth, I think Eliezer is a very bright person who has built a serious fanclub that reinforces all of his existing views, and has thus cemented a worldview that can casually brush off all negative feedback because "my fanclub says I'm right / I'm smarter than them."

This maps quite well to my view of LessWrong as a whole - there's a strong bias to accept affirmations of belief and reject contrary viewpoints. My gut reaction is that the standards of evidence are significantly different for the two categories.

I am a counterexample. I think Eliezer is a self-important wanker, but I have a favorable view of LW as a whole. I agree that I might be rare. I also wouldn't describe myself as a "part of the LW community." I think I attended a total of 1 meetup.

2Aharon
How many people did you look at to get this general impression of the general impression? Unfortunately, I don't have any comparison because both the site and the person seem to be largely unknown in Germany. I can only speak for myself - I didn't get this impression. Sure, there are some fringe ideas, but the discussion contains tons of stuff not the slightest related to Eliezer Yudkowsky or his opinions.