LESSWRONG
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All of jt4242's Comments + Replies

Undiscriminating Skepticism
jt424240

If you disregard the happiness of the women, anyway

No, it suffices if less women's happiness sacrificed are needed than the amount of men whose happiness will be increased (assuming the "amount of happiness" - whatever that is to mean in the first place - is equal per individual). Then you can regard the happiness of women and still score a net increase in happiness. That's the whole point of the argument.

I don't understand what you were saying in the second sentence.

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0hesperidia
Although I accept this argument in the abstract, I oppose anyone actually trying to propose a policy like this in the real world because, historically, men have overvalued their feelings/utilons as compared to women's feelings/utilons. It's a simple ingroup bias, but similar biases in "amount of happiness"-evaluation have historically resulted in the stable maintenance of large pockets of unhappiness in societies (see also: slavery).
-1MugaSofer
^ Upvoted for this. If you reject deals with positive expected outcomes because they violate some sort of ethical law, you're a deontologist. That's what deontology is.
Undiscriminating Skepticism
jt424220

"...getting them to admit that Scandinavia is not doing something inherently wrong with it's high tax system, given that they have relatively high happiness and quality of life."

There is another conservative argument against this: To acknowledge that it might actually be true that the average happiness is increased, but to reject the morality of it.

Too see why someone might think that, imagine the following scenario: You find scientific evidence for the fact that if one forces the minority of the best-looking young women of a society at gunpoi... (read more)

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-2MugaSofer
Even better, we could imagine that torturing Jews to death increases average happiness, because of all the happy racists. Or removing Freedom would end all wars and poverty Or [insert sacred value tradeoff here] would result in positive net utility. IOW, that seems like a mindkilling example.
-2PrawnOfFate
If you disregard the happiness of the women, anyway This can be looked at as a form of deontology: govts don't have the right to tax anybody, and the outcomes of wisely spent taxation don't affect that.