All of Kisama's Comments + Replies

Kisama00

I was going to give military an honourable mention but I didn't want to make my comment any longer than it already was. Yes the military frequently does aim to kill people, but not always. Capital punishment is defined as putting someone to death.

0TheOtherDave
OK.
Kisama00

If you don't kill any people, you won't kill innocent people. If you do kill some people, you might kill innocent people. Where is the equivocation?

1Eugine_Nier
If you don't drive cars, you won't kill innocent people in auto-accidents. If you do drive cars, you might kill innocent people in auto-accidents.
Kisama-20

Can you clarify why feelings of guilt are important here?

They aren't particularly, but

We mostly don't seem to care.

I thought we were talking about feelings, my mistake. I suppose the point was that I do care if innocent people die, so by extrapolation I assume other people do too.

I mean, I have no idea how much guilt executioners feel.

Please, pardon my rhetoric.

Also, I think got carried away with the whole "guilt" theme - feeling guilt, guilt by assocation...

But how much guilt they feel or don't feel doesn't play much of a role i

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2TheOtherDave
I am neither arguing for capital punishment, nor against it. I was exploring a claim I found remarkable, but I realize now was meant merely as rhetoric. Tapping out now.
0Eugine_Nier
You're equivocating between "killing innocents" and "killing people". Stop it.
Kisama20

What you say is true, but when I get into my car I'm not planning to go out and find a suspicious looking pedestrian to hit hoping he'll turn out to be not innocent ;)

More seriously, the one time I was involved in a pretty serious collision the sensation of heart-squeezing dread I experienced in the moments I thought someone might have been killed or even just injured and that I might have been at fault... was not pleasant. If an innocent person were hurt as a consequence of my actions I would certainly feel the guilt of it. Does the hangman feel the guilt of his noose?

1A1987dM
Someone is dying from malaria because you didn't donate $1600 to the Anti Malaria Foundation.
0Eugine_Nier
I assume all the people involved (judge, prosecutor, hangman) feel guilty if the person they kill turns out to have been innocent.
4TheOtherDave
Can you clarify why feelings of guilt are important here? I mean, I have no idea how much guilt executioners feel. Ditto soldiers, police, commuters, doctors, and other people whose activities sometimes result in innocent deaths. But how much guilt they feel or don't feel doesn't play much of a role in my decision to support or not support medicine, commuting, law enforcement, military action, or capital punishment.
Kisama10

I enjoyed reading the essay, finding it insightful and well-written, which is probably why the bit I disagreed with prompted me to argue.

or because they know it has a gruesome history of occasionally killing the falsely accused. But I still don't think this is a good argument.

I've never understood how proponents of capital punishment can simply sweep aside the possibility of killing even a single innocent person as a negligible consequence.

But taking something with both costs and benefits and then placing it next to something that only has costs

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7TheOtherDave
Huh. I find it no more puzzling than the fact that proponents of, say, large-scale construction, or mining, or driving cars, or pretty much everything else we do, can treat as negligible the possibility of killing a single innocent person . I mean, innocent people die all the time as a consequence of stuff we do. We mostly don't seem to care.