All of Klao's Comments + Replies

Klao20

Wow, this is amazing! Both, the idea and your presentation of it.

Very insightful and though-provoking. And, my mind was completely blown by the fact that you have converted. It so doesn't fit into my models that I am quite confused. I would be very curious what's behind it and what would you answer to your own questions (before and after). But, I guess you wrote about it a lot, so I'll just go and read it.

And yes, this definitely deserves a discussion post!

Klao50

Very interesting list, thanks Louie!

I just randomly clicked on a few links for online courses, and it seems there's at least one issue: The "Probability and Computing" part points to "Analytic Combinatorics, Part I" coursera course, which is not about probability at all. The MIT and CMU links for this part seem wrong too. Someone should carefully go through all the links and fix them.

2Louie
Just to clarify, I recommend the book "Probability and Computing" but the course I'm recommending is normally called something along the lines of "Combinatorics and Discrete Probability" at most universities. So the online course isn't as far off base as it may have looked. However, I agree there are better choices that cover more exactly what I want. So I've updated it with a more on-point Harvard Extension course. The MIT and CMU courses both cover combinatorics and discrete probability. They are probably the right thing to take or very close to it if you're at those particular schools. Thanks again for the feedback Klao.
Klao20

Awesome summary, thanks!

Klao30

The funny thing is, that the rationalist Clippy would endorse this article. (He would probably put more emphasis on clippyflurphsness rather than this unclipperiffic notion of "justness", though. :))

Klao90

You just say: 'For every relation R that works exactly like addition, the following statement S is true about that relation.' It would look like, '∀ relations R: (∀x∀y∀z: R(x, 0, x) ∧ (R(x, y, z)→R(x, Sy, Sz))) → S)', where S says whatever you meant to say about +, using the token R.

I would change the statement to be something other than 'S', say 'Q', as S is already used for 'successor'.

4tim
I agree that the use of S here was confusing. Also, there is one too many right parens.
Klao10

In Hungary this (model theory and co.) is part of the standard curriculum for Mathematics BSc. Or at least was in my time.

Klao110

(Audiatur et altera pars is the impressive Latin name of the principle that you should clearly state your premises.)

That's not what I thought it means. My understanding was that it's something like: "all parties should be heard", and it's more of a legal thing...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_alteram_partem

3Eliezer Yudkowsky
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/logic.html#alterapars
Klao40

I'm really itching to try this out! ;)

(Consider this as a word of encouragement. I'll to think about my predictions and will post them here if I come up with anything useful. But, in the time being I wanted to say at least this much.)

Klao100

Who is the intended audience for this?

If someone has a good grasp of Bayes, it's not that informative. (Though I liked the original idea and the story. :)) But, if one doesn't already understand the math behind this, then it's just a bunch of magic numbers, I am afraid. The second half of it for sure.

3HonoreDB
The intended audience for the second half is me ten years ago--someone who has never heard of the concepts, but would find them intriguing enough to unpack the math and follow the links. For the rest, I thought the novel angle on familiar philosophy might be fun.
Klao20

The link to the "Hamlet" is broken. Not that it's hard to find, but you might still want to fix it.

0HonoreDB
Thanks, fixed.
Klao40

I would be interested in a sequence like that. Of course, if it only touches rationality tangentially then maybe LessWrong is not the best place for it. But again, I personally would be very interested in it.

Klao20

Yes, this should work. With (hard) sciency stuff I actually do this. For example, after finishing the Quantum Physics sequence (and some reading of my own afterwards) I did a series of lectures about "the Intuitive Quantum World" here in the office.

I need to find some audience, who would be interested in the more general topics that I learn here on LessWrong. And of course, I would need to read a lot to have a real deep understanding. But yes, this is a very good answer to my question!

Klao00

Sorry to ask, but is this still on?

Wakefield, could you post some details here if it is? (I've sent you a private message, but maybe you didn't notice it.)

Klao30

I didn't downvote that comment, but might have, if I followed the conversation live. My thinking when I read it was: "He can't possibly really think that it is a homonym! So, for the sake of the argument he arrogantly (because that all caps spelling does show off some arrogancy) distorts reality and expects us to accept it?!"

But, now I see that this is too much of a correspondence bias. You probably just wanted to show that "explanation" has two different meanings, but in the head of the discussion just found a very bad example for your... (read more)

Klao00

Thanks!

I think, first and foremost these psychological needs were "to understand how things are". And that's in short why I am here now. :)

Klao10

Yes, I think this is a pretty good reading of my post. And it makes the issue seem less pressing and more manageable.

Klao20

Now, this is a much better question! And yes, I am thinking a lot on these. But, in some sense this kind of thing bothers me much less: because it is so clear that the issue is unclear, my mind doesn't try to unconditionally commit it to the belief pool just because I read something exciting about it. And then I know I have to think about it, and look for independent sources etc. (For these two specific problems, I am in a different state of confusion. Cryonics: quite confused; AGI: a bit better, at least I know what my next steps are.)

How do you deal with this?

Klao-20

Yes, I saw it coming. :) Thanks! It does matter to me.

Klao20

This sounds like a very good piece of advice. A slight problem is that some of the jargon is very useful for expressing things that otherwise would be hard to express. But, I'll try to be conscious about it.

4Karmakaiser
A litany I repeat to myself when learning new topics is that: "One must be be able to teach the class to learn the lesson." By being able to explain the science of heuristics and biases in your own terms, citing LessWrong only when absolutely necessary you internalize concepts and relationships that make the research more tangible for you.
Klao20

No, it's not too dark, it is useful to see an even stronger expression of caution. But, it misses the point a bit. It's not very helpful to know that Eliezer is probably wrong on some things. Neither is finding a mistake here or there. It just doesn't help.

You see, my goal is to accept and learn fully that which is accurate, and reject (and maybe fix and improve) that which is wrong. Neither one is enough by itself.

1Shmi
How about accepting that some things are neither, but you still have to make a choice? (E.g. inevitability of (u)FAI is untestable, and relies on a number of disputed assumptions and extrapolations. Same with the viability of cryonics.) How do you construct your priors to make a decision you can live with, and how do you deal with the situation where, despite your best priors, you end up being proven wrong?
Klao40

I guess, this is similar to the second part of thomblake's comment. Thank you for explaining this!

But, if it really can mean such different things, then that particular in the survey question wasn't formulated very carefully.

Klao40

So, a person who doesn't believe in god, but still thinks that he has an "immortal soul" or something? Thanks for explaining!

Klao20

General applicability of Bayesian inference: Judea Pearl, "Probabilistic Reasoning in Intelligent Systems", chapter 2. (Definitely not an explanation suitable for a teenager, but for a college student interested in the topic it is very good, I think.)

Klao160

I completed the survey. Thanks, Yvain, for doing it!

The option "Atheist but spiritual" gave me a pause. What does it actually mean?

2FiftyTwo
Certain forms of Buddhism are religous but not theistic, so possibly they'd count? Gave me pause also, a clarification/more options would be useful.
8[anonymous]
I can't speak for anyone else, but in my case it'd refer to someone who is an atheist and materialist ontologically, but who finds aesthetic reward and mental stability in certain forms of ritual and narrative applied to relatively specific domains of life (like holidays, rites of passage and other culturally and cognitively-significant stuff, as long as it's been vetted to strip out the more obvious kinds of crazymaking and irrationality such things can induce).
thomblake120

"Atheist" refers to the lack of a belief in gods. "Spiritual" includes all sorts of other supernatural notions, like ghosts, non-physical minds, souls, magic, animistic spirits, mystical energies, etc. Also, "spiritual" can refer to a way of looking at the world exemplified by religions that some atheists consider a vital part of the human experience.

Klao30

Same here. I had to look them up to understand what they are about and answer the question meaningfully. (But, after looking the options up the choice was actually easy.)

Klao20

I half-counted it. I counted from the time when I finally created an account at lesswrong.com.

Klao10

Thanks for the link, looks very relevant!

Klao10

Yes, of course, I realize that there are all kind of subtleties why one way might be better for some people and something else for others etc.

But, the frightening realization for me was, that in the heat of the debate my brain can come up with all kind of elaborate arguments. But because the reason I came up with them was to win the debate (and not to figure out how the things really are), I am screwed, no matter how clever are my arguments. (http://lesswrong.com/lw/js/the_bottom_line/)

And yeah, it would be cool to come up with ways to figure out how the t... (read more)

2Shmi
This could be one way, if applied to oneself.
Klao00

Hmm, it's nice that there is this pretty compact formulation for two coupled but separately "unpolarized" photons. But, this still leaves me with a question of how does one "unpolarized" photon (a photon for which half of the squared amplitude would pass any polarized filter) looks like?

I would guess that there is no such thing. We might be ignorant about the photon's polarization, but it does have some definite polarization even before it passes any filter. Otherwise, it has to be in a similarly tangled state with something (eg. its source).
Hmm, how would I check this?..

1Luke_A_Somers
You can construct a photon that will pass any linear polarization filter 50% of the time, by constructing a circular polarization photon. If you include arbitrary polarizing filters including elliptical polarization, then yes, you will need to have a 2-or-more-particle entangled state to get 50% regardless of filter. Having 2 or more particles entangled is of course the overwhelmingly normal case. If you take photons from an incandescent lightbulb and attenuate the signal until you're counting photons, then half of them will pass any polarizing filter you can construct (not counting inefficiencies in the polarizer, obviously).
0wnoise
You're right. Such a thing is not expressible as a wavefunction, as an unentangled pure state. Entanglement with something else that you are ignorant of (unentangled with) is one way of getting the right statistics. So too is expressing it as an impure state in the density matrix formalism. Some people appeal to the "church of the larger Hilbert space", saying that only pure states exist, and that system is entangled with other, unobservable ones.
Klao00

This post (together with the previous one) left me in a quite a bit of a confusion. How does this model with polarization vectors correspond to the old "amplitude distribution over a configuration space of «a photon here and a photon there»"? What are the configurations here, and when are they distinct? (And it seems I am not the only one who got confused by this.)

I think, I found the solution; the photons have a distinguishing property: spin. So, if configurations are more like "a photon with a +1 spin here, a photon with a -1 spin there...... (read more)

0Klao
Hmm, it's nice that there is this pretty compact formulation for two coupled but separately "unpolarized" photons. But, this still leaves me with a question of how does one "unpolarized" photon (a photon for which half of the squared amplitude would pass any polarized filter) looks like? I would guess that there is no such thing. We might be ignorant about the photon's polarization, but it does have some definite polarization even before it passes any filter. Otherwise, it has to be in a similarly tangled state with something (eg. its source). Hmm, how would I check this?..
Klao00

This left me totally confused too.

But then, I realized that there is a property of photons that can help with this confusion here: spin. So, the configuration space is not a "a photon here and a photon there...", but a "a photon with a +1 spin here, a photon with -1 spin there..." And then this phase thing arises from the values of the amplitude distribution for the configurations with photons of opposite spins. This makes the math quite a bit easier too.
I might be completely mistaken about this, though.

Klao70

Yep, Maxwell equations do produce the same results. The fun quantum thing is that this also happens with individual photons.

0Decius
What about if one path length is longer than the other, by either more than one light-beam length, or, in the case of an individual photon, more than one light-photon length? I'm assuming that matching two different paths to that level of precision is improbable even intentionally. Can a beam of light or a single photon interact with itself non-locally? What if the alternate path has a different detector intermittently intercepting it?
Klao30

Two ideas I got after 5 minutes (by the clock :)) thinking.

If the tests are stressful and mentally (and possibly physically) exhausting, then even if it is still possible to prepare just for the test, it will not be as far from preparing for the "real thing". So, something like Initiation Ceremony could be done periodically and not just for initiation.

Give the students "stories" and see if they can make heads or tails of them. (How accurately can they guess the omitted details? Can they predict how it continues? Etc.) But, where can you... (read more)