All of Leafy's Comments + Replies

Leafy00

I'm surprised that translation between languages isn't mentioned as a more simple example of where misinterpretation of meaning can arise.

Additionally, most people will now be aware of the variation in symbolic meaning between cultures (ie finishing all food on your plate being a compliment in some countries, and a sign that you weren't given enough food in others).

It's almost as if there is a requirement to have a constant reality-check process operating within the mind to ring alarm bells if the received response is against expectation. If this were oper... (read more)

Leafy00

Two questions that occur following reading this:

1) Using the Blegg/Rube example would it be reasonable to suggest that the reaction to a purple egg would be different had it occured 20 years of working on the machine with no anomalies, than if it was the first off of the conveyor belt ... or the fith etc? What would be a threshold between casual acceptance and dumbfounded confusion?

2) The concept of neural pathways strengthening with usage and heightening connections through multiple observations leads to the question: At birth are our neural pathways all ... (read more)

Leafy50

It is clear that the human body is good at adjusting and fine-tuning itself in response to immediate need. What in-built "amplification" do we have when intelligence is needed, and how could it be harnessed?

For example: The natural fight-or-flight reflex appears to provide instant alertness and focus, and I would imagine blood-flow to decision making functions is enhanced? Linked to a comment below I have found my reaction time and competance at rapid reaction computer games improves rapidly following surges in adrenaline. Is this coming from the improved focus (could this be simulated?), or increased bloodflow?

1wedrifid
Mostly the former. Blood flow can help cognition a little (see vasodilators such as ginko biloba) but it doesn't really target rapid response. The improve focus effect from adrenaline can definitely be simulated. Take anything from caffeine to amphetamine in large quantities.
2knb
Sympathomimetics? Ephedrine is an example that is often available OTC.
Leafy10

Interestingly I have noticed a similar "time slowing" effect in rapid reaction computer games following extreme bursts of adrenaline for whatever reason - I wonder if action movies at 2x give you an adrenaline boost?

1mattnewport
I noticed real life slowing down after extended multiplayer sessions of Quake 3.
Leafy10

I would suggest that the greatest leap forward in recent years of combined human intelligence has been the internet, and an Intelligence Amplification method is having ready access to it and the base level of intelligence required to correctly use it for information!

4knb
Probably the biggest single thing you can do (if you aren't doing it already). It took me till my junior year of high school to realize that feeling exhausted and light-headed till lunch isn't normal.
2wedrifid
Not just carbohydrates. Fat and protein.
Leafy140

I read your last section ("Note general failure mode: ...") with amusement as I have found myself following almost the exact train of thought several times recently.

It was an appreciated, although unpleasant, kick-in-the-teeth to realise that my thought process actually belied negative aspects to my character rather than positive ones.

Could I ask for advice then on reversing this situation? What internal monologue, or indeed actions, should be ideally followed based on a situation identical to the one given in the article.

5Alicorn
I'd advise redoing the entire process, carefully and methodically. Note that the monologue I wrote doesn't include a single mention of the person's positive traits; it doesn't come up with a story to excuse the person's irksome behavior; and the behavior of the monologuer is not conducive to reaping cognitive dissonance, because she has a complete explanation in mind for why she's doing as she does (she is high-minded and tolerant and good) that doesn't involve liking the person. This means that if you get to that monologue, the steps I outline didn't "stick".
Leafy00

Science.

To me it is a process, a method, an outlook on life. But so often it is used as a pronoun: "Science says tomatoes are good for you".

It should be used to encourage rational thinking, clarity of arguement and assumption and rigorous unbiased testing. The pursuit of knowledge and truth. Instead it is often seen as a club, to which you either belong by working in a scientific profession, or you do not.

As a child of a mixed religeon household I felt like an outcast from religeon from an early age - it didn't matter that I have beliefs of my ow... (read more)

Leafy50

I used paint to take part of one cube, split through the "special" square and move it over to the other image - my brain told me that I was seeing one colour, but the second the opposite image came in contact with its rival square my brain began telling me the square had been grey all along. Remove it and the effect was reversed. It was almost as if my mind was trying to erase any false memories - quite a fun experience.

Leafy-20

How is this not just a simple arguement on semantics (on which I believe a vast majority of arguements are based)?

They both accept that the tree causes vibrations in the air as it falls, and they both accept that no human ear will ever hear it. The arguement appears to be based solely on the definition, and surrounding implications, of the word "sound" (or "noise" as it becomes in the article) - and is therefore no arguement at all.

3bigjeff5
I think that may have been the point: You can define a thing based on any criteria you like. It simply has to allow your expectations to agree with reality in order for it to be true. One says "it is sound because it vibrates regardless of whether anyone hears it." This person believes that sound is the vibrations. The other says "it is not sound because it is never processed in a mind." This person does not deny that the vibrations exist, he simply believes it isn't sound until someone hears it. These two have different definitions of "sound", but within their definitions both allow expectations that are completely consistent with reality. The point is to make sure your beliefs "pay rent" - that they allow you to have expectations that match up with reality. If the second person had the same belief of what sound was as the first (i.e. vibrations in the air), yet also believed that vibrations in the air do not occur when there is nobody to hear them, that belief would not pay rent. When they recorded the sound with nobody around he would expect there to be nothing at all on the tape, yet there would be something on the tape. The only way to resolve this is to adjust your belief after the fact, which means your belief couldn't pay its rent.
Leafy150

There seem to be far too many people hung up on the mathematics which ignores the purpose of the post as I understand it.

The post is not about truth but about conviction. Eliezer is not saying that there could be a scenario in which the rules of mathematics didn't work, but that there could be a scenario under which he was convinced of it.

Deconstructing all elements of neurology, physics and socialogy that make up the pathway from complete ignorance to solid conviction is not something I could even begin to attempt - but if one were able to list such steps... (read more)

1AndyCossyleon
I wish I could vote you up so much more! The distinction between a-convincing-argument and what-it-would-take-to-convince-me is very real and overlooked by almost everyone posting here. To take my own experience in becoming convinced of atheism, I sometimes like to think I accept atheism for the same reason that I accept evolution--because of the evidence/lack thereof/etcetera. But that is simply not the case. I accept atheism because of a highly personal history of what it took to get me, personally, to stop believing in Christianity, and start believing in something else that, as much as I would like to pat my rational self on the back, has fairly little to do with the arguments and evidence I heard on the matter. When asking someone why they believe something or are convinced of it, "what is the reason?" and "what is your reason?" are two totally different questions.
Leafy20

I appreciate that these are being used as simple analogies, but since they are phrased as real-world scenarios I feel that it weakens my visualisation of the situation in hand by not explicitly commenting on the time-scales over which the teacher/pupil wishes to maximise their utility.

Each example refers to the impact of the initial setup, or decision made when faced with an excuse, to the overall utility of the outcome but fails to convey to me clearly the success or failure criteria.

I would find it valuable if we were able to split the scenarios into a t... (read more)

Leafy30

Continuing on the "last responsible moment" comment from one of the other responders - would it not be helpful to consider the putting off of a task until the last moment as an attempt to gather the largest amount of information persuant to the task without incurring any penalty?

Having poor focus and attention span I use an online todo-list for work and home life where I list every task as soon as I think of it, whether it is to be done within the next hour or year. The list soon mounts up, occassionally causing me anxiety, and I regularly have c... (read more)

Leafy00

If I could attempt to summarise my interpretation of the above:

Joe realises that the best payout comes from proposing sincerely even though he is defined to be insincere (10% probability of surely breaking his promise to never try and leave her if they marry). He seeks a method by which to produce an insincere sincere proposal.

As sincerity appears to be a controllable state of mind he puts himself in the right state, making him appear temporarily sincere and thus aiming for the bigger payout.

As you have not assigned any moral or mental cost associated with... (read more)

Leafy00

I would not ignore the impact of an internal stimulus other than tastiness in driving over-eating.

In the case of chocolate, for example, I have often continued to eat well passed the point at which both my common sense and even my taste have begun to object to satisfy a craving.

Here the craving is clearly visualised in the form of direct sugar and chocolate stimulating the pleasure senses. Knowing the impact allows me to focus will-power towards avoiding it and yet I still give in on occasion.

Now consider the stimulus hidden more deeply. MSG subtly adding ... (read more)

Leafy00

Just clicked through to the following screen after selecting "no - it didn't get it right" to see the resulting poll:

Yes - 63% No - 32% Don't know - 5%

0Unknowns
This is based on all the estimates that people have voted on. So it's not strange if it's only getting 63 - 70% correct; it's giving many estimates which are less certain than this.
Leafy00

Darn - claims my blog is 63% woman. Not sure how to take that!

0Unknowns
These percentages are supposedly Bayesian estimates, so it basically just means that it isn't easy to tell one way or another but the thing was more inclined to take it as female. If the thing is well calibrated it would be right 63% of the time and wrong 37% of the time with this estimate. But at least for my tests it was right even more often-- it seems other people had different experiences.
Leafy00

Possibly I want to limit my hypothesis to life-forms, thank you for the feedback.

1Alicorn
There are cute inanimate objects. Tiny ones. I have adorable polyhedral dice, which I acquired by squealing over them so much that their prior owner thought I should just keep them.
Leafy30

Is it not worth considering "cuteness" to be defined in terms of threat levels. It seems to me that in most cases there is a direct correlation between cuteness and perceived threat.

By threat I am referring not just to physical (claws versus soft paws, large vs small, dominant versus meek, hard versus soft) but even biological (messy / unhygenic looking creatures versus fluffy / cuddly looking ones) or social (flawed versus flawless).

This may explain why some people perceive cuteness differently. One person may look at a human baby and see no pos... (read more)

3NancyLebovitz
It can't just be harmlessness-- all sorts of things (like pencils) are harmless but not cute.
6AdeleneDawner
This also might explain why some of us think that babies are cute, and others of us don't: Not that babies themselves are potentially dangerous, but that messing with someone else's baby is potentially dangerous, particularly if the baby belongs to someone who's not a tribemate. I suspect that finding a given baby cute correlates with how much we trust the baby's parents; in the case of strangers' babies, it would correlate with our priors regarding how dangerous it is to interact with strangers. This doesn't explain why some stranger's babies register as cuter than others, though - perhaps that correlates with how much the babies look like people who we believe would trust us to interact with their babies?
2DanArmak
Cats are dangerous predators and many housecats scratch or bite humans in play, but they're still cute, often in the very moment of doing so. They can also appear cute when hunting real prey.
Leafy50

It is common practice, when debating an issue with someone, to cite examples.

Has anyone else ever noticed how your entire argument can be undermined by stating a single example or fact which is does not stand up to scrutiny, even though your argument may be valid and all other examples robust?

Is this a common phenomenon? Does it have a name? What is the thought process that underlies it and what can you do to rescue your position once this has occurred?

4wnoise
It takes effort to evaluate examples. Revealing that one example is bad raises the possibility that others are bad as well, because the methods for choosing examples are correlated with the examples chosen. The two obvious reasons for a bad example are: 1. You missed that this was a bad example, so why should I trust your interpretation or understanding of your other examples? 2. You know this is a bad example, and included it anyway, so why should I trust any of your other examples?
Leafy00

Could I take a slightly different tack on this?

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the objective is to increase donations to charity? So if, for example, this approach generated $1bn but only from people who would have donated anyway then the gain is zero.

The core questions that we are then addressing are:

  • how do we convince people to donate more to charity than they would without our intervention?
  • what stops people from donating the full amount that they would wish to, and how can we remove these barriers?

The first would be tackled by focusing on &qu... (read more)

1thomblake
This approach was supposed to take ad revenue from Craigslist, that presumably would otherwise have gone to the owners of some other website, not to charity. The people being recruited here aren't being asked for money.
Leafy00

Actually no I am not. I began studying the Actuarial exams when I started work and have passed the ones that I took but stopped studying 3 years ago.

I found them very interesting but sadly of only minor relevance to the work that I was doing and, since I was not intending on becoming an Actuary and therefore was not being afforded any study leave in which to progress in them, I decided to focus my spare time on my own career path instead.

Why do you ask?

Leafy70

Hi everyone.

My name is Alan Godfrey.

I am fascinated by rational debate and logical arguments, and I appear to have struck gold in finding this site! I am the first to admit my own failings in these areas but am always willing to learn and grow.

I'm a graduate of mathematics from Trinity Hall, Cambridge University and probability and statistics have always been my areas of expertise - although I find numbers so much more pleasant to play with than theorems and proofs so bear with me!

I'm also a passive member of Mensa. While most of it does not interest me th... (read more)

0bgrah449
Out of curiosity, are you an actuary?
Leafy20

That is not how I interpreted the statement. To me it conveyed a strong dismissal of any further discussion on the subject.

Since the context was in conversation with a skeptic who could clearly have benefited from a clear and reasoned argument but was instead presented with this comment, my opinion is that this undermines the issue.

I am willing to accept that this may not have been the intention of the statement.

Leafy00

"As I once said to someone who questioned whether humans were really related to apes: "That question might have made sense when Darwin first came up with the hypothesis, but this is the twenty-first century. We can read the genes. Human beings and chimpanzees have 95% shared genetic material. It's over." "

I don't believe any scientist worth their lab-coat would ever use the phrase "It's over".

One of the central tenets of science is constant questioning and healthy skepticism. Statements which imply that 'since it's good en... (read more)

6Cyan
Welcome to LessWrong! One of the common tropes around here is that zero and one are not probabilities (that's probability in the Bayesian sense). When Eliezer writes "it's over", he doesn't mean that no evidence could convince him otherwise; he just means that he assesses the probability of observing such evidence as negligible in light of the currently available evidence. (Or at least, that's my understanding.)
4Morendil
The phrase "it's over" shouldn't be taken to mean that we can learn no new facts; rather that we cannot go back to a previous state of ignorance.
0[anonymous]
Welcome to LessWrong!
Leafy40

I am quite surprised that more Karma functions do not track both the Up Votes and the Down Votes and display a running tally of each.

On a relative basis I would be far more interested in reading a post that has had 1,000 Up Votes and 999 Down Votes, than one which has had a single Up Vote.

4Jack
Well I guess you could solve this problem by posting duplicate comments- one for positive karma and one for negative karma. But I feel like it would be distracting. ;-)