All of Lethriloth's Comments + Replies

I did see those points. I think the ritual as designed does not do a good job of supporting those points because, again, all the pressures are being lined up against pressing the button. I will acknowledge that there is probably no good way to design a ritual to celebrate the virtue of ignoring social pressure and career consequences to do the right thing (At least not one as participatory as this one) but that doesn't mean we should build a ritual with the exact opposite message.

7gjm
The Less Wrong team could undertake to pay (say) $500 to the first person to launch the missiles, if anyone does. Perhaps also, since not everyone shares their view of how valuable the LW front page is, undertake to give (say) $2000 to some cause widely regarded as deserving, if the missiles are not launched. It seems likely that for most people this would make the direction of the personal-gain incentives be the same as Petrov's actually were. Not the exact same sort of incentives as Petrov's, of course, but it would surely reduce the extent to which all the incentives are exactly backwards compared to those that Petrov himself faced.

I (and I suspect I am not alone here) believe that the current structure of the Petrov day ritual misses what is admirable about Petrov by about a mile. You write that the goal of the ritual is to eventually be able to demonstrate that:

we have 1000 people that if we give them the chance to be a troll or a conscientious objector or a something–they don’t take it

but Petrov himself was a conscientious objector (of a sort) and that's why we admire him. He - in defiance of social pressure, risk of professional consequences, and danger to his life - abandoned hi... (read more)

Strong upvote for the comment. I think the situation is even worse than what you say: the fact is that had Petrov simply reported the inaccurate information in his possession up the chain of command as he was being pressured to do by his own subordinates, nobody would have heard of his name and nobody would have blamed him for doing his job. He could have even informed his superiors of his personal opinion that the information he was passing to them was inaccurate and left them to make the final decision about what to do. Not only would he have not been bl... (read more)

5Ruby
In my opinion, the most important thing about Petrov is that he didn't press the metaphorical button even though it was an option. The incentive structure and pressures make those decisions more admirable, but the core of the thing is not pressing the button and the ritual celebrated to date let's us reenact that element. Also, it's possibly the name "Petrov Day" anchors us too much but I don't actually think the entire focus should narrowly be around Petrov and his specific actions, such that all the symbolism needs to around his specific actions. The holiday can and should generalize to the things we learned and were challenged by in the Cold War. I probably should have said something to this effect in the retrospective. (I think this is what was on the mind of the team when they created the ritual.)
samshap130

I'm actually ok with the social pressures inherent in the activity. It's a subtle reminder of the real influence of this community. The fact that this community would enforce a certain norm makes me more likely to be a conscientious objector in contexts with the opposite norm. (This is true of historical C.O.s, who often come from religious communities).

Linch*270

Yeah I think this is a pretty important point. I pointed out this before here, here, and here (2 years ago). I personally still enjoyed the game as is. However I'm open to the idea that future Petrov Days should look radically different, and wouldn't have a gamefying element at all. But I think if we want a game that reflects the structure of Petrov's decision that day well in an honest way, I personally would probably want something that accounts for the following features:

1. Petrov clearly has strong incentives and social pressures to push the button.

2. ... (read more)

4Duncan Sabien (Deactivated)
If you single out that line, you're correct that it leaves the wrong impression, but definitions elsewhere in the piece are exactly in line with what you describe: