All of LM7805's Comments + Replies

LM780500

There's a lot of content here, and replying to old posts is encouraged, so I think there should be plenty of material.

LM780510

Depends mainly on how we both learn best. For me, when it comes to learning a new language that tends to be finding a well-defined, small (but larger than toy) project and implementing it, and having someone to rubber-duck with (over IM/IRC/email is fine) when I hit conceptual walls. I'm certainly up for tackling something that would help out MIRI.

0klkblake
Sounds like fun! I'll PM you my contact details.
LM7805150

if some post or comment is confusing to you, don't skip it and leave it to people who might have the right background. Ask for clarifications.

I am hereby publicly committing to doing this at least once per day for the next week.

2A1987dM
What if one day you don't read any comment you find confusing? You keep on reading until you find one?
LM780580

Modafinil eliminates the feeling of being tired, but not the body's need for sleep. Being in sleep deficit weakens the immune system, and I've seen long-term modafinil use without sleep recovery end in pneumonia. So, if I take modafinil to work on a project or stay alert for a long drive, and I finish before the modafinil wears off, I'll go to sleep anyway, because even if my brain doesn't care whether it gets sleep or not, my body needs it. With stimulants like caffeine, getting to sleep before the stimulant wears off is difficult and leads to less sleep.

LM780520

Most social-science studies are designed to elicit answers in such a way that the participant doesn't realize what question is actually being asked. For example, when William Labov studied the distribution of rhoticity in spoken English, he asked people innocuous questions whose answers contained the sound /r/ in (phonetic) environments where rhoticity can occur. He'd go into a multi-story department store, look at the map, and ask an employee something along the lines of "Where can I find towels?" so that the person would answer "Those are ... (read more)

LM780580

One class of questions you didn't bring up has to do with perceptions of risk. There was a poster at this year's USENIX Security about a Mechanical Turk experiment that purported to be a Starbucks study evaluating the usability of a new method of accessing the wi-fi at Starbucks locations: click here to install this new root certificate! (Nearly 3/4 of participants did so.) I can't find the poster online, but this short paper accompanied it at SOUPS.

1Peter Wildeford
Risks, biases, and heuristics would be good to look into. One would have to be careful to avoid using measures that participants have prior exposure though (a problem that is unusually common in MTurk), so surveys probably would have to create unique measures.
LM780500

I've TAed a class like the Programming Languages class you described. It was half Haskell, half Prolog. By the end of the semester, most of my students were functionally literate in both languages, but I did not get the impression that the students I later encountered in other classes had internalized the functional or logical/declarative paradigms particularly well -- e.g., I would expect most of them to struggle with Clojure. I'd strongly recommend following up on that class with SICP, as sketerpot suggested, and maybe broadening your experience with Pro... (read more)

LM7805120

My local hackerspace, and broadly the US and European hacker communities. This is mainly because information security is my primary focus, but I find myself happier interacting with hackers because in general they tend not only to be highly outcome-oriented (i.e., inherently consequentialist), but also pragmatic about it: as the saying goes, there's no arguing with a root shell. (Modulo bikeshedding, but this seems to be more of a failure mode of subgroups that don't strive to avoid that problem.) The hacker community is also where I learned to think of co... (read more)

LM780510

Also, presuming that the talk Andreas Bogk has proposed for 30c3 is accepted, you'll want to see it -- it's a huge pragmatic leap forward. (I apologize for not being at liberty to go into any more detail than that. The talk will be livestreamed and recorded, FWIW.)

LM780540

Eh, cryptocurrency has been a thing since the 80s (see Chaum's Blind signatures for untraceable payments, 1983), but it was patent-encumbered for a long time. If you look at the people involved, they're all cypherpunks of one stripe or another, so I'd place cryptocurrency as a subset of hackers at least initially. (The community has certainly expanded since the emergence of bitcoin.)

LM780530

Toby Ord has some elderly C code (see Appendix II) that he used in his societal iterated prisoner's dilemma tournaments. You'd have to modify it for your purposes, but it's a small codebase.

LM780500

I model people constantly, but agency and the "PC vs. NPC" distinction don't even come into it. There are classes of models, but they're more like classes of computational automata: less or more complex, roughly scaling with the scope of my interactions with a person. For instance, it's usually fine to model a grocery store cashier as a nondeterministic finite state machine; handing over groceries and paying are simple enough interactions that an NFSM suffices. Of course the cashier has just as much agency and free will as I do -- but there's a p... (read more)

LM780500

The way I see it, the difference between an online algorithm and a self-training AI is that the latter would not only need such a heuristic -- let's call it "knowledge base evaluation" -- it would also need to be able to evaluate the fitness of novel knowledge base evaluation heuristics.

On reflection, I'm now contradicting my original statement; the above is a stab toward an algorithmic notion of "self-training" that is orthogonal to how restricted an algorithm's training input set is, or who is restricting it, or how. Using this hal... (read more)

LM7805100

Hold on, is he trying to imply that prokaryotes aren't competitive? Not only does all single-celled life compete, it competes at a much faster pace than multicellular life does.

8cousin_it
Yeah, I know. I don't agree with the text, but I think it's interesting anyway.
LM7805100

The Feynman Lectures on Computation did this for me by grounding computability theory in physics.

LM780520

I wouldn't call Google's search personalization "self-training" because the user is responsible for adding new data points to his or her own model; it's the same online algorithm it's always been, just tailored to billions of individual users rather than a set of billions of users. The set of links that a user has clicked on through Google searches is updated every time the user clicks a new link, and the algorithm uses this to tweak the ordering of presented search results, but AFAIK the algorithm has no way to evaluate whether the model update ... (read more)

0LM7805
On reflection, I'm now contradicting my original statement; the above is a stab toward an algorithmic notion of "self-training" that is orthogonal to how restricted an algorithm's training input set is, or who is restricting it, or how. Using this half-formed notion, I observe that Google's ranking algorithm is AFAIK not self-training, and is also subject to a severely restricted input set. I apologize for any confusion.
LM780560

Are self-training narrow AIs even a going concern yet? DeepQA can update its knowledge base in situ, but must be instructed to do so. Extracting syntactic and semantic information from a corpus is the easy part; figuring out what that corpus should include is still an open problem, requiring significant human curation. I don't think anyone's solved the problem of how an AI should evaluate whether to update its knowledge base with a new piece of information or not. In the Watson case, an iterative process would be something like "add new information -&... (read more)

0[anonymous]
Is what Google does for search results based in part on what you do and don't do considered self training? What I mean is that two people don't see the exact same Google results for some queries if we were both signed into Google, and in some cases even if we both aren't. Article: http://themetaq.com/articles/reasons-your-google-search-results-are-different-than-mine An entirely separate question is whether or not Google is a narrow AI, but I figured I should check one thing at a time.
LM780500

In the past I've manually edited my hosts file to point time-wasting sites to 127.0.0.1, which is a small obstacle at most -- I can easily edit it back -- but is enough of a speedbump to remind me "oh, right, I'm trying to avoid that right now." This time I haven't needed to; I managed to become so frustrated with the fact that my queue was saturated with short-term rewards that weren't netting me anything in the long run that choosing not to visit the sites doesn't seem to require much willpower.

This leads me to wonder whether I could eliminate other influences I want to avoid by making myself sufficiently frustrated with them, but that seems like it would be an unpleasant skill to pick up.

LM780500

Have you read Pierce's Types and Programming Languages? If so, would you say it provides sufficient foundation for this book?

1Risto_Saarelma
I'm not sure it works as a prerequisite. I've read most of it, but don't feel like it got me any closer at all to figuring out category theory. Since category theory was invented to unify abstract algebra and topology, maybe textbooks in those would work instead? I kind of worry about how much the whole category theory talk on programmer forums is the blind leading the blind. Mathematical maturity is difficult to communicate, and I don't have a clear idea just how far along the ladder of mastery levels you need to be before you can make category theory start paying rent.
LM780510

All of these are dummy subjects. English does not allow a null anaphor in subject position; there are other languages that do. ("There", in that last clause, was also a dummy pronoun.)

LM780520

My experiment in massively curtailing my use of Twitter and Facebook is going well. Objectively, I'm completing more items on my to-do list on a daily basis; subjectively, it appears that my ability to focus has improved, which I'm willing to chalk up to not feeling compelled to check new-message notifications and therefore just not having that distraction, though I would like to be able to measure this in some way.

I was expecting to feel rather cut off from the world, but fortunately this has not been the case. I've been more responsive to more personal m... (read more)

1jetm
Are you using any tools to keep yourself cut off, or do you merely choose not to visit those sites?
LM7805170

Another meme that arguably reached the Bay Area via the 1960s/1970s counterculture, but predates it, is "intentional community". This influences startup culture and hacker culture (specifically hackerspaces), and to some (lesser?) extent seasteaders, the back-to-the-land movement, and rationalists as well.

4Julia_Galef
Great one, thanks!
LM780520

My experience with modafinil has been that sleep is possible, but not necessary.

0Richard_Kennaway
Why do it, if it is not necessary?
LM780550

"Security Applications of Formal Language Theory" is a good overview. (If you don't have IEEE access, there's a tech report version.) Much of the work going on in this area has to do with characterizing classes of vulnerabilities in terms of unintended computational automata that arise from the composition of independent systems, often through novel vulnerability discovery motivated by considering the formal characteristics of a composed system and figuring out what can be wedged into the cracks. There's also been some interesting defensive work ... (read more)

0klkblake
I might be interested in being your study partner; what would that involve?
0[anonymous]
What do you mean by having a study partner?
LM780510

I am interested in dependent type systems, total languages, and similar methods of proving certain program errors cannot occur, although I would have to do some background research to learn more of the state of the art in that field.

If you're not already familiar with Idris, I highly recommend checking it out -- it's a dependently typed Haskell variant, a bit like Agda but with a much friendlier type syntax. The downside of Idris is that, as a newer language, it doesn't have nearly as robust a standard library of proofs as, say, Coq. That said, the auth... (read more)

0klkblake
I'd heard of Idris. Parts of it sound really good (dependent typing, totality, a proper effects system, being usable from Vim), although I'm not a huge fan of tactic-based proofs (that's what the Curry-Howard Isomorphism is for!). It's definitely on the top of my list of languages to learn. I wasn't aware of the security focus, that is certainly interesting. Proving safety in the face of malicious input sounds fascinating -- a dump would be much appreciated.
LM780510

less wrong has a lot of opinions of the form "X is obvious and if you don't believe X you are crazy"

This strikes me as a problem of presentation more than anything else. I've had computer science professors whose lecture style contained a lot of "X is obvious and if you don't believe X you are crazy" -- which was extremely jarring at first, as I came into a CS graduate program from a non-CS background, and didn't have a lot of the formal/academic background that my classmates did. Once I brought myself up to speed, I had the methods ... (read more)

LM780500

Foxit Reader supports javascript, and libpoppler (which powers evince and okular, among others) does as well.

Without something to measure, though, that's really just a technical curiosity.

LM780500

If the PDF is signed by a certificate the user has manually installed, it can embed what Adobe calls "high privilege" javascript, which includes the ability to launch any URL. That's an extra step, which would discourage some users, but on the plus side it addresses the "who's given informed consent?" problem.

Momentarily donning a slightly darker hat: it is also possible for a PDF to launch an arbitrary executable (see pp. 30-34 of Julia Wolf's OMG WTF PDF, video). AIUI this requires no additional privileges.

0Lumifer
My estimate for the value of that "some" is 95%+ Not to mention that most of the people who can be easily persuaded to manually install a cert on their PC probably already have a dozen toolbars in their browser... :-D
LM780500

D'oh. My "Elsevier == paywall" assumption kicked in too quickly. Thank you.

LM780500

You can embed arbitrary javascript in PDFs, so what about including "phone-home" text-boxes for marginalia in rather the same way that online editions of Real World Haskell and other programming books have comment threads for each paragraph? I'd think other metrics like time-on-page could be measured as well. This would need to be disclosed, of course, and not every reader can be expected to comment, but the "how" seems tractable at first impression.

I don't have any useful insights on what response to measure.

0gwern
This doesn't seem usefully true. Some googling for search queries like 'a/b testing PDFs' or 'PDF phone home' show no one discussing the topic of A/B testing different versions of PDFs, and Wikipedia indicates that only Adobe supports JS and even it produces a popup when you try to phonehome. So any A/B test is going to work on only a fraction of users (how many LWers still use Adobe Acrobat to read PDFs?), and it will alarm the ones it does work on ('is this PDF spyware‽').
0Lumifer
I don't know how the security model works in various PDF readers, but wouldn't the javascript code be sandboxed, hopefully? Sane security practices shouldn't allow arbitrary code in PDFs to talk to random 'net addresses...
LM780500

Santos, Santos, and Shimony, "Implicitly preserving semantics during incremental knowledge base acquisition under uncertainty".

Santos, Wilkinson, and Santos, "Fusing multiple Bayesian knowledge sources".

The first describes a formalism called the Bayesian knowledge base that is more compact than the usual conditional probability table approach to a Bayesian network, along with other advantages; the second presents an algorithm for aggregating representations in this formalism.

I ran across this in a book on adversarial reasoning, and have... (read more)

3gwern
Your first link seems to be open access already. Your second link is easily accessed through Google Scholar where a PDF.pdf) is already linked. I think so; the worst that could happen is you get downvoted.
LM780570

The plural of anecdote is not data and neither is the singular, but: I am ten years older than my partner, and this is my partner's first relationship. When we got together, we talked a lot about relationship failure modes and the hazards present in our situation (more than just the age difference), committed to voicing and understanding any concerns/fears/etc. that we experienced, and actually followed through on that commitment. We're only about a year and a half in, but so far this has been amazingly successful. It's hard to suss out how much is due to ... (read more)

LM780510

I doubt Harry has read many RFCs, but IP over avian carrier had been around for just over two years at this point in the story.

LM780530

There are some underlying differences between most charities and bone marrow donation, though. The registry gets no utility from prospective donors until they match donors with patients, so if they can't reach a prospective donor, that database entry is worthless (except perhaps to artificially inflate the size of the database and attract financial donations). A charity that's already gotten some of your money has already gotten some utility, and would like to have more, but faces less risk from losing contact with people on their list.

Also, can you even s... (read more)

LM780580

Hi. I've been a distant LW lurker for a while now; I first encountered the Sequences sometime around 2009, and have been an avid HP:MOR fan since mid-2011.

I work in computer security with a fair bit of software verification as flavoring, so the AI confinement problem is of interest to me, particularly in light of recent stunts like arbitrary computation in zero CPU instructions via creative abuse of the MMU trap handler. I'm also interested in applying instrumental rationality to improve the quality and utility of my research in general. I flirt with some ... (read more)