All of mdcaton's Comments + Replies

0lessdazed
As "Singularity" is partly defined (by some) as being a point after which one can't make useful predictions, one should beware of the circular implication here.
3ahartell
I don't think this is true at all. In my understanding the general consensus is that it would not be efficacious to try imposing rules on something that is vastly smarter than you and capable of self-modification. You want it to want to be "friendly" so that it will not (intentionally) change itself away from "friendliness". I agree. Isn't that the basis for AI-based singularitarianism? I'm pretty sure Eliezer has put a lot of thought into the importance of goal-perserving modification and reproduction.
mdcaton40

Right, that's the noise in these questions. Some things have changed since the paleolithic, so are we talking about conventions that fit with old social norms and economic systems, or something less plastic. I don't know that we know yet.

mdcaton30

I was unclear on this point. As clarified above, I think you're probably right that 3 parents are better than two, for the kids. But ultimately, it's whether the arrangement is serving the parents' interests that will determine if kids are produced. The same person who loves being in long-term, child-free poly relationships might not want to be in a child-ful poly relationship, and in fact my intuition is that a lower proportion of people who are emotionally cut out for polyamory would eventually want kids. Need data.

7Kaj_Sotala
If you're saying that the kinds of people who typically wish to be poly are the kinds of people who typically don't want children, that might be so, though I haven't seen any evidence for that hypothesis. Anecdotally, the "wants children" / "doesn't want children" ratio seems about the same as in the general population, or maybe as in the general high-IQ population. Your original comment seemed to talk about the suitability of poly for raising children, given that the people involved want children, though. But I actually think that the main benefit of having three parents is for the adults, not the kids. Child-raising is typically really, really tiring, at least when the children are still young enough to need constant supervision. Having a third person around would really help make things easier. At the same time, there are all kinds of studies around saying that most of the things we'd expect to have an impact on the long-term outcomes of the children actually don't, and I'd guess that this would fall into the same category.
mdcaton70

Thanks for reading my (long) comment. RE the Laguna Pueblo, I will read up. Certainly it's not something that we've seen often. Whether this is because "things are different than they were before" or something else less plastic is another question.

To be clear, my argument about the correlation between polyamory and child-rearing is not about how effective a poly environment might be at child-rearing. On the contrary, I'd be that a stable poly family would provide access to consistent capital and caretakers that a mono family cannot. However,... (read more)

1[anonymous]
Leslie Marmon Silko is a good source there, re: pre-Christianization (and to some degree mid-and post-) sexual practices. I'd find that an easier statement to accept if I didn't see many, many people routinely make decisions about parenting (or becoming parents) that did not appear to involve such analysis. The only times I've seen parents really think and act the way you describe, was when they were financially-stable and comfortable enough in status from the start that any such alterations would change that (and even then, many of them wind up divorcing anyway if things go poorly instead of staying together for the kids' sake, something which may or may not be in the child's best interest as well). And even then, I've seen parents in such situations adopt polyamory or whatever; either they don't agree with your assessment, or they're not thinking about the decision in those terms in the first place. (FYI: This is what I meant re: your theoretical understanding of human sexuality -- it's not an attack on you, it's just me stating you appear to have an understanding of how people behave in these situations that's informed more by your big-picture theoretical beliefs about human behavior, than by a direct assessment of how people really behave -- at the very worst, I am accusing you of generalizing too broadly beyond the scope of what you know).
mdcaton100

I always counsel young males with still-healing injuries that will leave scars to think of good stories. As for females, most straight men I know are attracted to signs of toughness that don't otherwise confound the usual health-and-fertility signs (skin and hair), so scars might not always work. But anecdotes from LW commenters are not likely to be representative of the general conversation. Many women I know in SoCal that have impressive degrees from awesome schools hide their credentials for fear of scaring off men, and are surprise than I am surprised. That's still the world we live in.

3Nisan
If I were feeling super snarky I'd say "That's SoCal". But your point is well-taken.
mdcaton330

Valuable post. Self-revelation is hard! I commend your account in this kind of forum. There are many considerations here, first and foremost of which is that emotional makeup a) differs greatly between people and b) is more set than we care to admit; i.e. not subject to hacking. If Alicorn's is to this degree, more power to her. Before the rest of my comment (as a mono): this is most emphatically NOT a moral judgment about polyamory. Consenting adults, will defend to the death your right, etc.

Other considerations (for someone like me, which maybe yo... (read more)

5wedrifid
More likely they would end up a LOT of peolple's secondaries. Possibly with a mostly political 'primary' alliance with each other.
1Eneasz
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_castration Not sure if it's available voluntarily, but you could ask your doctor.
3hairyfigment
I would expect a lot of people to realize they don't want to stay with the football player or cheerleader for very long. But in any case, you have to compare the result to what we have now:
[anonymous]220

(Smart polys, police this so we can all have a real discussion!)

Telling members of a social minority you're not part of what every member of that minority must do to be worthy of your time and consderation as a member of the social majority, is neither reasonable, rational or realistic. Just FYI. It's like asking "smart" queers to police the tendency of certain (stereotyped) gay men you have in mind to flame it up, or come to that, asking atheists not to be so militant...

Yes, many poly folks do think they're more evolved. Yes, this is just em... (read more)

In my personal experience, many of the people who think they're capable of polyamory are not honest with themselves, and once a partner starts seeing someone else, they experience bad jealousy which they're uncomfortable admitting, because after all they're not supposed to; they're poly!

This is true. Poly requires excellent communication skills to pull off successfully, even more so than ordinary relationships. I keep emphasizing that poly is not for everyone: not only because you need to be emotionally suited for it, but also because it often takes muc... (read more)

Strange7230

Explicit symmetrical polyamory has never emerged stably in history so far. It's worth asking why. Maybe this is coincidence; maybe something has changed now that will be more conducive, but I think it's worth pointing out.

Primates (including humans) raised in stable, supportive environments are more friendly, trusting, willing to take risks. Those who grew up desperately alone, or with only a few allies-of-convenience who might run off as soon as costs outweighed benefits or better prospects appeared elsewhere, are less friendly, trusting, and willing t... (read more)

MBlume170

Explicit symmetrical polyamory has never emerged stably in history so far. It's worth asking why.

As far as I know, explicit symmetrical anything hasn't existed for very long...

mdcaton70

Although this is an old article I came to it from the Theory of Knowledge article (link below). I'm commenting because this crystallizes my objections to a repeated theme at LW: that irrationality comes from unquestioned cached thoughts, and that modern education systems exacerbate this tendency. In other words, I'm questioning whether password-guessing and memorization in education are actually avoidable, even at the highest levels of optimization, and whether this isn't in fact the result of the expansion of knowledge and the limits of human cognition... (read more)

5JGWeissman
An alternative to having students of a field incrementally memorize its information for regurgitation on tests only to forget most of it after the test, would be to store the information in a well organized database and teach students how to search the database for information relevant to the current problem they face. I don't know how a student in the field could achieve this change. However, there are fields, such as software engineering, where you can work that way if you want, and make lots of money without getting licenses or degrees from established institutions. (It is encouraged to read old posts, and comment on them when you have something to say.)
8[anonymous]
I don't think LW claims that's the only place irrationality comes from. There's the various biases, an inability to update, akrasia, and so on... Actuarial science, I imagine. My second guess is pharmacy, but that seems less technical than actuarial science. Can you explain specifically "the need for it to be this way"? Would a person learning these things via SRS or a comparable long-term memorization system not wipe the floor with the crammers in real life? If someone who actually knows the material isn't at an advantage, then why do you need to know these things in the first place. I ask because I'm leaning toward "recognizing in hindsight the reason behind the structure of the system" is a bias in its own right, though I can't say its been analyzed anywhere, and I don't have enough evidence to definitively say one way or another. I'm a math grad student, and I also have a larger-than-feasibly-possible, unwieldy mess of information I need to learn, but I don't get the mercy of a multiple-choice exam. False dichotomy. Step two to three is lacking in justification. What? If you truly feel the profession is unethical (and why you would feel this way is not quite clear), pivot into another profession. It's not like everyone has to be a physicist or a construction worker. There are plenty of professions in the world (though perhaps not as many jobs as there used to be, I suppose). That's why we have SRS, nootropics, expert systems and (ultimately, someday) FAI. Heh! Math has plenty of "unpredictable detail." Heh. There's a difference between password-guessing and memorization that I think you've ignored in this... well, for lack of a better word, rant. There's nothing wrong with memorizing facts; there's everything wrong with memorizing the answers to questions. For instance, at some point a pharmacist needs to memorize that, say, grapefruit juice is contraindicated for some kinds of high blood pressure medicine (or was it cholesterol medicine? I don't know
5lessdazed
This seems like shifting the goalposts. How the system should be and what to do given that it is what it is are different questions. The OP addresses the first and you criticize it as if it addresses the latter.
mdcaton00

Was hoping to make it to this one from San Diego but couldn't; can't wait for the next one. Anyone in San Diego who needs a ride next time, hold onto my email, mdcblogs@gmail.com.

mdcaton10

A lot of the recent discussion of cryonics in the blogosphere is about others' basis for rejecting it. If you want it to become more available that's probably one of the steps to take. But grossly selfish? Or ghoulish, or an affront to nature, or any of those things? Much of medicine today would seem that way to someone living two centuries ago. For my part, I don't oppose it if others want to do it, and I applaud anyone who wants to use technology to improve their lives even if I think they're barking up the wrong tree; I don't plan to do it myself. ... (read more)

5AngryParsley
I'm signed up with Alcor. Several reasons: * Suicide is usually illegal and will get you an autopsy. * Cryopreservation techniques get better over time. * Cryonics probably won't work, but the expected value calculation favors signing up. The people staffing the cryo facility. You don't just toss some heads in a tank and forget about them. Constant monitoring and maintenance is necessary. You're also assuming that no friends or family sign up, and that you don't make friends with any cryonicists. And you're assuming it will always be expensive to revive people. You're talking about a society that uses nanotech or uploading to bring unproductive people back from the dead. You think it likely that life in that society would be worse than death? PS: Your website gives me a malware warning in Google Chrome.
3NihilCredo
I'm not (yet) a 'cryonicist', but the answer to the first question seems simple to me: by being frozen while still more or less healthy, you're giving up a variable length of time which you are certain to get, in exchange for improving by an unknown amount your small chances of maybe getting an unknown extra length of time (resurrection does not necessarily imply immortality, after all). You can't put exact numbers on any of that, but enjoying your current life (while hopefully fastening your seat belts) at least until the first signs of fatal disease seems a sensible choice. I would agree, however, that initiating "live cryonics" procedures makes sense once you're stuck on a deathbed and too tired to lead at least a decent intellectual life. [Disclaimer: I have bookmarked your post but haven't read it yet, so I apologise if the above was addressed.] Your second question I subscribe to, and is in fact currently one of my main doubts about cryonics.
mdcaton00

Gah! I couldn't make meetings in the Bay Area, then I moved to SoCal. Finally a meeting in SoCal, and I'm away today. Is there a calendar?

mdcaton10

Fixing the leak is the best solution. Much easier and more realistic with a team of one (yourself) than it is with more than one.

While we can all probably give examples from personal experience equivalent to the real estate agent leaking the minimum price, my personal favorite resulted in the current border of California. Ever wonder why the West Coast border between the U.S. and Mexico is between San Diego and Tijuana? At the end of the war that resulted in this border, there were American troops occupying Mexico City. Why draw the line there? Turns ... (read more)

mdcaton70

Is this question really so hard? Remind me never to hide from Nazis at your house!

First off, Kant's philosophy was criticized on exactly these grounds, i.e. that by his system, when the authorities come to your door to look for a friend you're harboring, you should turn him in. I briefly scanned for clever Kant references (e.g. "introduce the brownshirts to your strangely-named cat, Egorial Imperative") but found none. Kant clarified that he did not think it immoral to lie to authorities looking to execute your friend.

The larger issue here... (read more)

3Pablo
The critic was Benjamin Constant. He wrote: For Kant's reply, see his essay On a Supposed Right to Lie Because of Philanthropic Concerns.
4Nick_Tarleton
See Newcomb's Problem and Regret of Rationality.