All of memoridem's Comments + Replies

I'm not under the impression that doctors are less likely to be atheistic/rationalistic/high-Openness/etc. than the general population

Not much more likely either it seems. Doctors are a very diverse population, probably not many generalizations you can make about rationalism on that front.

If only a small minority of people are consequentialists by default, then coldly calculated actions that have good consequences would more likely be a sign of callous character than a finely tuned moral compass, which in turn could lead to bad consequences in other situations. People might not be as irrational judging these example situations as it seems.

You could try doing something that gives immediate feedback for sloppiness, like simple math problems for example. You might gain some generalizable insight like that speed affects sloppiness. Since you already practice meditation, it should be easier to become aware of the specific failure modes that contribute to sloppiness, which doesn't seem to be a well defined thing in itself.

I think for most people who ask this question, the range of fitting jobs is much wider than they think. You learn to like what you become good at.

If I were to pick a career right now, I'd just take a long list of reasonably complex jobs and remove any that contain an obvious obstacle like a skill requirement I'm unlikely to improve at. Then from what is left, I'd narrow the choice by some other criteria than perceived fit, income and future employment prospects for example and then pick one of them either by some additional criteria or randomly. I'm confid... (read more)

I think this feeling arises from social norms feeling unnatural to you. This feeling should be expected if your interests are relevant to this site, since people are not trying to be rational by default.

The difference between a pathetic misfit and and an admirable eccentric is their level of awesomeness. If you become good enough at anything relevant to other people, you don't have to live through their social expectations. Conform to the norms or rise above them.

Note that I think most social norms are nice to have, but this doesn't mean there aren't enoug... (read more)

Glad to hear I could be of help.

There's no reason why you shouldn't apply this to your other exercises too if you want to progress faster and less painfully. You might want to experiment with the number of sets to see what works best for you or vary the figure simply to make things a bit less monotonic. It's still nice to have "challenge days" every once in a while to see how awesomely many repetitions you can do at once.

1DataPacRat
I'm going from many years of no physically-demanding exercise at all to getting close to 30 of many of the basic exercises - so far, /every/ day is a 'challenge' day for me. But I'm getting better. :) I'm feeling quite cheery today - today's routine was as non-excruciating as yesterday's, so it seems the modification's a definite success. Which means the choice between 'avoid eventual decrepitude' and 'avoid immediate pain' has tilted decisively in favor of the former. ;)

Wow. That's some heroic effort you're going through.

Can't you use that treadmill time to read, watch or listen to something? Or meditate, you referred to buddhism in our other discussion.

If you haven't done so already, you could automate things further via a smartphone or a computer. There's software for almost any purpose. For example, my smartphone does my exercise plans for me and keeps track of progress and adjusts the plans accordingly, reminds me when to exercise and when to eat, reminds me to weigh myself in the morning and draws a prediction graph of my weight based on the last 7 day measurements and calculates how many extra calories have gone in or out based on the progress.

0DataPacRat
Do you mind if I ask which app(s) you're using?
0Brillyant
I watch TV on the treadmill to try and pass time as quickly as possible. Or audiobook. I have a hard time reading and running/walking. I'm low tech and should do a much better job of automating. The app you describe sounds awesome.

I get the high only from strenuous exercise that lasts about an hour or more, like soccer for example. Half hour runs or weight lifting do not have such an effect, and I don't find the reward worth the pain in those activities which means I do them in a more reasonable pace.

This suggests you might have to reach a certain level of fitness to be able to strain yourself enough to get the high and this level varies between activities and people. There are activities like swimming that don't give me the high at all no matter how hard I try, but oddly enough swimming is my favorite form of exercise.

Have you you tried doing shorter sets like 5x10 push ups with a minute of rest in between for example? You'll get much more push ups done this way, will progress faster and experience less burn. Try adding 1-2 push ups to those five sets every time you do push ups. If you reach failure point at any time, you're doing too many of them. Doing them every day might get counterproductive at some point, your muscles need rest to grow stronger. If you're already in pain when you're starting, you haven't recovered from the previous exercise.

3DataPacRat
Today's magic number was 25. (I started a few days after New Year's.) 5x10 push ups seems rather out of my range just yet - but 5x5 was a massive improvement, pain-wise, over 1x25. My main thought at the end of those: "Oh, if /that's/ all it's going to hurt from now on, this is going to be /easy/..." So even if no other suggestion helps much - this one particular comment could make the difference. I'd up-vote it more than once, if I could. :)
0DataPacRat
I'm just about to crash for the night; but I can answer that no, I've simply been increasing the number of push-ups, with at most a few seconds break between some of them so that I can keep going. I'm not in any pain when I start each day. (And any further replies will have to wait for the morn.)

If it hurts consider that you might be doing something wrong. If it's just the burning sensation, although this sensation is usually followed by a rewarding endorphin rush, consider that you might not have to strain yourself that much to get the most important benefits from the exercise. I exercise regularly, make progress, and it almost never hurts. If you do bodyweight exercises for example, you don't have to exercise to the point of failure to make progress, in fact that might even slow your recovery.

0DataPacRat
I'm not having any problems with jumping jacks, toe-touches, squats, or sit-ups, and if that sort of thing was all I was doing, I think I'd have few-to-no problems with keeping myself on the routine of doing them. The first day I started this 'get up and go' thing, I did one push-up; the next day, two; the next day, three; and so on. I'm currently in the twenties. I'm reasonably sure that what I'm experiencing is the 'burning sensation' you mention, though I'm not getting any sort of endorphin rush from it. And on the plus side, I actually /can/ do twenty-odd push-ups now, which I wouldn't have been able to when I started. (I know what that says about my physical state when I started.) I've skimmed what free manuals and guides I can find, watched a few Youtube videos, and so on; short of buying a gym membership for professional advice, I think I'm doing things as closely to 'right' as I can manage. It just hurts, each day that I do n+1 push-ups compared to the previous day's n. (And, similarly, for holding the plank position for a couple seconds longer.)

To motivate yourself further, imagine yourself as the granpa of steel you're going to become if you do the right thing.

I meant only that I am alive, and I see no reason that death is preferable at this point.

This could easily describe my preferences as well. Perhaps we just have different thresholds for logging out.

But the suffering caused by aging and disease is separate from any definition of death.

I fully agree with this distinction, but it doesn't matter much to my preferences. I think permanent cessation of consciousness is bad. Some things in life are worse though, and could override this preference. Outcomes that we value don't have to be directly experienced... (read more)

People usually ask questions to clarify some confusion. I don't know what yours is, but thought the article might be helpful since it elucidates this subject. Have you read it?

Organisms obviously don't directly optimize their genetic fitness. Deep Blue obviously doesn't directly optimize winning chess. If you want to economically predict their actions however, finding something they seem to optimize works as a rough model. This is easy if you know the process that made them. It's the nature of a rough model you can poke holes to it by finding exceptions, but this doesn't make the model useless.

Tim might be making a stronger claim than this. If that's the case I probably don't agree with it.

0[anonymous]
OK, I'm in complete agreement with you.

Doesn't this apply to any system where power is tilted and the high status members have ideologies? Should we call them all religions?

2Brillyant
I suppose this happens in the way you note. I don't advocate labeling LW, or anyone else, a religion. I just meant to say certain aspects remind me of religion. Other aspects are nothing like religion. I don't think cryonics is impossible. In fact, I'm probably in the proto-rationalist group that doesn't really understand the science but thinks it has a high probability of working someday. I just don't understand why it is so appealing. The dogma seems to be more that "cryonics and the option for indefinite life extension is good" more than "cryonics is possible".

I'm alive. It is my default state.

Stop eating. Let's see how default it is.

They have zero to do with one another and should not be combined in this discussion.

If that's how you want to have your definitions, I can live with that.

Please give me an example of a long term goal that would require 10 Billion years? How about 1 Billion? 1 Million?

No need for that. Just always have plans for tomorrow.

It does affect me quite a bit to know why my instincts and drives exist. Maybe it does nothing for you. Okay. That is interesting.

Why/how they exist a... (read more)

-1Brillyant
I meant only that I am alive, and I see no reason that death is preferable at this point. There is a difference beyond definitions here. We may have different definitions of death -- I think it is the end of individual consciousness. But the suffering caused by aging and disease is separate from any definition of death. It is an important distinction that goes overlooked oft times. Fighting to live; living to fight. I see this a hamster wheel. It has some novelty, but I see no need to prolong it indefinitely. Or, if it can be prolonged, it shouldn't be at the top of the list of problems facing humanity/the universe. I'm not sure I understand what your point is. I'm tapping on our conversation now. I'd be pleased to hear any responses you have.

I find the dogmatic-ish acceptance of certain ideas around here reminds me of religion

Did you actually look at the statistics? Whatever dogma you're seeing isn't there. It's more likely you're thinking some people you've had discussions with here are more representative of LW than they actually are.

4Brillyant
As in the church, it isn't too terribly important to dogma that it has widespread acceptance among adherents to a particular faith in order to be dogma. What is far more important to establishing dogma is having de facto authority and/or status leaders accept it and voice their support.

Does it matter really? From my perspective Tim proposes an economical tool for thinking about a system's goals, but probably won't lead to much insight and will cause bias compared to more labor intensive methods.

I think this post could clear most of your confusion about the connection between your genes and your goals.

0[anonymous]
What do I seem confused about to you?

Are you sure you didn't think you were replying to someone else? You made a lot of false assumptions about my mindstate.

I'd suggest death is a harmless alternative

So what has made you decide to live so far?

Also, I notice you are conflating non-healthyness and mortality

I combined two situations because I thought that would be more acceptable to you. That doesn't mean I'm conflating them. I do think there are good deaths and bad immortalities.

Most arguments for which exact lifespan is better would seem arbitrary to me.

If I couldn't think of any ... (read more)

0Brillyant
Sorry. I'm alive. It is my default state. I'm talking about (1) aging and disease and suffering vs. (2) death. They have zero to do with one another and should not be combined in this discussion. Please give me an example of a long term goal that would require 10 Billion years? How about 1 Billion? 1 Million? It does affect me quite a bit to know why my instincts and drives exist. Maybe it does nothing for you. Okay. That is interesting.

What about religious people who take vows of celibacy?

Consider that many of them probably fail and some of them probably take the vow after having children. Those who don't are so rare you might want to consider them defective from the perspective of propagation of genes. People have genetically inherited diseases too.

I think people care more about self-preservation than reproduction

It's reasonable to assume that the value of self-preservation declines with age and the number of children. Self-preservation in most instances seems to be instrumental to reproduction.

0[anonymous]
What about people who adopt children from a foreign country, rather than having their own biological children? I personally know a couple who did that. (I plan on doing the same if I get married - maybe not from a foreign country, but definitely adopting.)

If everyone was immortal and healthy by default, do you think it would even occur to you suggest death as a harmless alternative?

If someone tried to convince you that a 50 year lifespan is better than what we have now, what would be your reaction? Don't you find it interesting that your intuitions support a very narrow optimum that just happens to be what you already have?

Do you argue that "death is just the end of your conscious experience" in the case of anyone who dies prematurely? Try to imagine actual deaths in real life and their outcomes.

Have you read this fable by Bostrom?

-3Brillyant
Good question. I'd suggest death is a harmless alternative, and it would only be analogous with actual, literal, harmless alternatives. (Also, I notice you are conflating non-healthyness and mortality.) If a reality like death didn't exist, I guess it would be like any other non-existent, yet imaginable state. In fact, death is a state of non-existence, it is imaginable, and it is harmless. Most arguments for which exact lifespan is better would seem arbitrary to me. I can see some merit to a lifespan that allowed you to have kids, or grandkids. Maybe a lifespan where you reached full, mature adulthood makes some sense. But 50 years, 100 years, 1000 years... arbitrary. Yes, very interesting. Though it is also your intuition, and intuition generally, that opposes (and fears?) death so intensely. It is part of our eons-evolved programming. This death-avoidance intuition exists so that we will be best equipped as vehicles for the replicators we carry. That is all is was designed for. The fact you are arguing for some intrinsic value to indefinitely extended consciousness beyond its instrumental value as a tool of the replicators is simply a glitch; a side-effect to the necessary importance every surviving organism and species must attach to surviving. I don't "argue" it. That seems tacky, since I would be arguing only with the deceased friends or loved ones... since the deceased themselves would be...dead. I do, however, think it is a helpful meditation to ponder the implications of death, immortality, etc. I read and discuss my understanding of Buddhism with lots of people (these, for example), and I find explorations to better understand the human desire for permanence and striving for lasting satisfaction to be very insightful and helpful. From your cited fable... I did not read the whole fable, though I skimmed it (I get it, I think) and read the moral of the story. What I notice is that the author appears to be conflating the nasty parts of aging with deat

In the mornings I sometimes take a few caffeine pills after the alarm and continue sleeping until I wake up spontaneously when the effect peaks. Another way that works for me to increase morning alertness is to time some bright lamps to turn on an hour or so before wake up time.

I hadn't considered trying to counteract the nervousness induced by stimulants. I'll have to look into various relaxation techniques.

You can do this pharmacologically too, with beta blockers for example. Consider asking your doctor about it.

Have you tried caffeine naps i.e. take a caffeine pill then start taking a nap? The caffeine absorbs while you sleep so when you wake up you could be more alert right away. This could also prevent oversleeping.

2btrettel
You are full of good suggestions! I had not considered beta blockers at all. Perhaps I should; it appears that they also treat some of my other (minor) health issues. I have not tried a caffeine nap. Doing some quick reading suggests that it may counteract the grogginess I experience.

You could argue the opposite: if you expose yourself indiscriminately to people who don't share your values, they'll have a better chance to change them. I think I operate under this assumption. Most people wear some kinds of masks in various situations, and I think some people who insist they shouldn't just lack basic skills in deception and lie detection. I'm not implying people are more malicious than some people expect, I'm implying deception is generally thought of as a lesser evil than some people think.

If we talk about really hacking your preferences on some deep level, I agree with the danger of unintentionally becoming someone else.

Isn't there anything you already know but wouldn't like to forget? SRS is for keeping your precious memory storage, not necessarily for learning new stuff. There are probably a lot of things that wouldn't even cross your mind to google if they were erased by time. Googling could also waste time compared to storing memories if you have to do it often enough (roughly 5 minutes in your lifetime per fact).

What other skills work nicely with spaced repetition?

In my experience anything you can write into brief flashcards. Some simple facts can work as handles for broader concepts once you've learned them. You could even record triggers for episodic memories that are important to you.

0JacekLach
Yeah, that's pretty much the problem. Not really. I.e. there are stuff I know that would be inconvenient to forget, because I use this knowledge every day. But since I already use it every day, SR seems unnecessary. Things I don't use every day are not essential - the cost of looking them up is minuscule since it happens rarely. I suppose a plausible use case would be birth dates of family members, if I didn't have google calendar to remind me when needed. Edit: another use case that comes to mind would be names. I'm pretty bad with names (though I've recently begun to suspect that probably I'm as bad with remembering names as anyone else, I just fail to pay attention when people introduce themselves). But asking to take someone's picture 'so that I can put it on a flashcard' seems awkward. Facebook to the rescue, I guess? (though I don't really meet that many people, so again - possibly not worth the effort in maintaining such a system)

That made the picture a lot clearer, thanks. Makes those income figures relevant to me seem a lot less enviable.

I see, my bad. It's easy to lose the context by reading recent comments.

0A1987dM
Yes, that happens to me all the time too.

Have you tried any drugs to fall asleep faster when using stimulants in the evening?

1gwern
I don't usually look at interactions, because it's more important to establish an effect exists in the first place. Right now, I know that melatonin helps in getting to sleep, vitamin D impedes getting to sleep, high doses of magnesium citrate have ambiguous effects on sleep, alcohol usage seems to correlate with early bedtime (I forget about getting to sleep), and I speculate that Redshift/f.lux and masturbation help in getting to sleep but I haven't analyzed that experiment yet. I haven't looked at any interactions with nicotine or modafinil or anything, since I'd expect them to just independently make it harder to get to sleep.

Pharmacokinetics (half-life and other variables) of drugs and their different delivery methods are public knowledge, there are individual differences in metabolism of course.

When it comes to designing drugs there are quite a few things that are done in the delivery mechanism of the drug that can effect half-life.

For most drugs the elimination half-life is so long that a faster route of administration makes minor difference. For caffeine for example it's about 4.5 hours. You can shorten the absorption from < 1 hour to seconds but that probably won't ... (read more)

0ChristianKl
There are number that are public knowledge. Those numbers do have meaning. On the other hand individual differences are also important. A lot of pseudoscience comes from people having a rough theory about isolated facts and personal observations. I think it's often very valuable to stay with personal observations instead of trying to fit them into a simple theory you made up that seems to fit and that corresponds to isolated facts you find in books. You lose relevant information when you ask for half-life data instead of asking about what stimulants other people found useful for being stimulated at events closer to bed time without adverse effects on sleep. Take Vitamin D. A lot of the published research on it is misguided because it presumes that blood level of Vitamin D is the central variable that matters. Whether you take Vitamin D in the morning or evening doesn't have much effect on long term Vitamin D blood levels. It therefore isn't subject to study in academia. Making too much assumption when you don't need to do so often hurts understanding.

There are individual differences in metabolism rates of all drugs, so you might want to try some in the 3-5 hour range to see how they affect you. If tolerance worries you consider cycling some drugs or taking days off.

Nicotine could increase the clearance of caffeine as much as 50 %, you could use this to your advantage.

Consider raising your alertness nonpharmacologically, like exercise or cold showers for example. Consider working in an upright position.

In the other comment you said you have problems with sleep. There are several options to improve that ... (read more)

0btrettel
Thanks for your comment. If I don't particularly like modafinil for its long half-life then I'll take a closer look at others. I'm sure my sleep doctor would be glad to give me a few samples of other stimulants. I wasn't aware of the effect of nicotine on caffeine. Seems to be potentially useful. Nonpharmacological treatments generally don't do much anything in my experience. Naps work fairly well, though they can leave me groggy. Exercise wakes me up during its duration, but not for much longer afterward (This is consistent with normal people's experiences). Though, I have used exercise before to "anchor" my circadian drive (i.e., running in the morning helped my body know when to wake up), which I found worked well. Standing prevents me from falling asleep involuntarily, but it won't stop me from feeling very sleepy. Neither does walks; I need a certain level of physical activity to counter sleepiness. Some large meals make me very sleepy, but not all. Eating delicious greasy food at an alehouse on Fridays with some coworkers last summer at about noon tended to cause outright collapse at 2 pm (note that I don't drink alcoholic beverages), whereas eating a Chipotle burrito, which is similar in volume, causes no postprandial somnolence. Talking seems to wake me up more than I initially expected. I haven't tried cold showers, but I suspect they'd be counterproductive as a decrease in body temperature is known to trigger sleep. I thought I had issues with my sleep quality at night. I generally don't wake up feeling rested, and the sleepiness continues through the day, usually abating sometime after dinner or an afternoon nap. I just recently got the results of an overnight sleep study, and they indicated that my sleep quality should be okay. Assuming that the study was not misleading in some way, this leaves the possibility that I am a long sleeper, i.e., that I require 10+ hours of sleep per night to function correctly. I hadn't considered trying to counteract t

Could you be a bit more specific about the positive effect?

2James_Miller
More energy in the morning and lower levels of stress. But you can't generalize from this as to how neurofeedback would impact you.

Pure signal? Some people actually like their jobs, and perhaps the extra income too.

ETA: are people expected to work extra hours for free in the US?

2TheAncientGeek
People are widely expected to work extra hours for free in IT.
Nornagest100

are people expected to work extra hours for free in the US?

Depends on the kind of work you're doing. Under American labor law, workers in retail, manufacturing, or the trades can't be asked to work more than eight hours a day or forty hours a week without being paid their hourly wages plus a substantial overtime bonus. However, there's a loophole. American workers in clerical, administrative, and professional positions -- those on the administrative side of historical labor disputes, in other words -- are usually paid a fixed yearly income (salaried,... (read more)

2A1987dM
This subthread started with CronoDAS pointing out that it's hard to change the amount of money you earn by changing the amount of hours you work, and CoffeeStain pointing out that even if you can't do so in the short run you still can in the long run, because the more you work the more likely you are to be promoted. So, if we talk about the people who can just decide to work more hours this month to earn more money this month, we've come full circle here.

It's not just exploitation by elders in medicine though. Many young doctors work ridiculous hours by choice, and their more reasonable colleagues suffer as a consequence.

It's terrible that the expertise of doctors should make them fully acknowledge the dangers of sleep deprivation for example, yet some of them wilfully ignore the facts.

A disorder would be a description of what the person is reporting, since you can't scan their brain to establish the diagnosis. An important problem with this approach is that we don't know whether there's an impaired processing of the social necessity called self, or whether the person just perceives or describes normal processing differently, or whether they label a different process with the word self than people normally do.

You can migitate the problem by making the investment gradually.

0James_Miller
Yes