All of Metacelsus's Comments + Replies

Thanks for your support! I really think you're making a great impact here.

I'm sorry to break this to you, but cloning requires live cells, not just DNA. This is one of the reasons why it's so hard to bring back the woolly mammoth. (The other reason is that it's really hard to do IVF on elephants.)

So if you want to make a clone, you'll need to do something like what I did (take cells and preserve them in liquid nitrogen).

Preserving the entire brain is much more difficult than preserving cells, and requires specialized equipment.

2avturchin
Chemical preservation may not be that difficult. I tried to organize this for my cat with a taxidermist, but - plot twist - the cat didn't die. 

I don't know if targeted crossover is plausibly feasible.

 

It is definitely feasible. This is how artificial gene drives work.

So that's why you can't just make a human baby without knowing what you're doing: You stand a high risk of making a baby with developmental abnormalities that weren't severe enough to abort the fetus, but are severe enough that the child is suffering. If for some reason the moral consequences of that aren't enough to dissuade you, consider that other people would ban you and your children and your children's children and your artificial children and any similar research for 1000 years.

 

I cannot overemphasize this!

As a rough estimate, I think 3x to 5x more expensive. Marmosets are smaller (smaller than squirrels) whereas macaques (rhesus/cyno) are about 10x bigger (6 kg). And macaques take longer to develop (3 years vs. 18 months until adulthood). Finally, macaques are in high demand and low supply for pharma research.

But the benefit is that methods developed in macaques are more likely to translate to humans, due to the closer evolutionary relationship. Marmosets are a bit unusual in their embryonic development (two twin embryos share a common, fused placenta!) 
 

Unfortunately monkeys (specifically marmosets) are not cheap. To demonstrate germline transmission (the first step towards demonstrating safety in humans), Sergiy needs $4 million.

 

And marmosets are actually the cheapest monkey. (Also, as New World monkeys, marmosets are more distantly related to humans than rhesus or cynomolgus monkeys are.)

5GeneSmith
Do you have any estimate of how much more expensive testing in cynomolgus macaques or rhesus monkeys would be?

Ovelle, who is planning to use growth and transcription factors to replicate key parts of the environment in which eggs are produced rather than grow actual feeder cells to excrete those factors. If it works, this approach has the advantage of speed; it takes a long time to grow the feeder cells, so if you can bypass some of that you can make eggs more quickly. Based on some conversations I’ve had with one of the founders I think $50 million could probably accelerate progress by about a year.

 

A few comments on this:
1. The "feeder cells" you're discuss... (read more)

5lemonhope
Could you do all the research on a boat in the ocean? Excuse the naive question.
6GeneSmith
Thanks for the clarification. I'll amend the original post.

On the topic of SuperSOX and how it relates to making eggs from stem cells: 

The requirement for an existing embryo (to transfer the edited stem cells into) means that having an abundant source of eggs is important for this method, both for optimizing the method by screening many conditions, and for eventual use in the clinic.

So, in vitro oogenesis could play a key role here.

For both technologies, I think the main bottleneck right now is nonhuman primate facilities for testing.

Finally: we need to be sure not to cause another He Jiankui event (where an ... (read more)

I wouldn't say synthetic biology itself has been a bust. It's had lots of success in pharma (look at CAR-T, engineered antibodies, gene therapies, etc.) It's more like, "using synthetic biology to compete with low-margin petrochemicals" has been a bust.

I'm similarly pessimistic about meat produced in cell culture. It's very hard to compete on price with factory farming. (Stuff like Beyond / Impossible has better prospects though.)

2sarahconstantin
agreed

Bottom line up front: with my rough DIY test setup I got 80% filtration with a long beard, 92% with a short one, and 99.7% with stubble.

 

As a different way of looking at it: a short beard lets 26.7x more particles past than stubble, and a long beard lets 66.7x more particles past.
 

7jefftk
I don't trust my measurements as much in the stubble case, because of the risk of particles leaking into the bag through its exit. So presenting the other cases as relative to stubble risks compounding error. If the relevant counterfactual is not masking, then I think I'm giving these reductions the right way around?

>Mice lacking the Yap and Taz genes that control liver size have larger livers…but they also have liver cancers, and worse regeneration from liver injury.16 Similarly, mutant mice lacking Hippo signaling have unusually large livers that don’t stop growing when they hit the usual “maximal size”…but they also get lots of liver tumors not seen in wild-type mice.17

Notably, Yap and Taz are downstream mediators of Hippo signaling so these studies are looking at the same thing.

Turns out that several of the main studies about cerebrolysin may have been fraudulent: https://www.science.org/content/article/research-misconduct-finding-neuroscientist-eliezer-masliah-papers-under-suspicion

A lot of "weird testis genes" are epigenetically silenced in somatic cells (for example, suppressed by DNA methylation), and this epigenetic control becomes defective in disease states, especially cancer. There are a whole category of "cancer/testis antigens," proteins which are usually expressed only in the testis but which are expressed in cancers like melanoma. There are currently cancer vaccine trials to target immune responses against these proteins (which might also cause male infertility but that's probably an acceptable tradeoff).

Maybe something similar is going on with LINC01609 in Alzheimer's.

Dietary vitamin A (beta carotene) is not the active form of vitamin A (retinoic acid), it needs to be converted into the active form by the body's enzymes. Once retinoic acid is formed, it can bind to the retinoic acid receptor and regulate gene expression.

Retinoid treatment bypasses these enzymes and directly activates retinoic acid receptor signaling. So, eating vitamin A in the form of beta carotene won't directly increase retinoic acid receptor signaling because the rate-limiting step is the enzymes, but retinoid treatment will. This is also why you can't overdose on vitamin A by eating carrots.

Does this meet your criteria for a good answer? If not I can explain in more detail.

3Chipmonk
Hi, thanks for responding. You say: It is possible to eat the active form of vitamin A, for example through animal sources like liver.  When I said vitamin A, I meant vitamin A (not the compound in plants that can be lossily converted into vitamin A). So this doesn't answer the question IMO

Lastly, you shouldn’t use Retinoids if you’re pregnant or likely to become pregnant.

 

This needs more emphasis. Retinoid signaling is very important for embryonic development, so excess retinoids will really mess up your baby. 

I agree with this. There's a lot of snake oil out there and cerebrolysin is just one example. I had no idea it was so popular though.

200 mg/day is a pretty high dose (at least for me)

2AnthonyC
Yes it is, for sure. I told a nurse at a sleep study that that was my dose. She mentioned she took half a 100mg pill once and stayed up for over 24 hours straight. For me it was barely enough to stay awake through a normal day. It took those 4 years and more to find enough of the root causes to not need to be on it anymore.

Not just mammals, as far as I know it only works in E. coli bacteria and not in any eukaryotes.

Source:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07552-4

2bhauth
Right. "Having a nucleus" is a pretty big difference.

Interestingly there was just a similar article in the news section of Science, about glacier geoengineering.

https://www.science.org/content/article/avoid-sea-level-rise-some-researchers-want-build-barriers-around-world-s-most

2Roko
This is a very silly and inefficient way to lower the sea level though. It's much easier to just reduce the incoming solar flux.

>I'm using Quaise Energy as an example of a much larger overall trend - of the inability of investors to effectively evaluate technologies. The ability of investors to recognize good technical evaluations is the key thing that's lacking in the economy today; there are plenty of good ideas and there's plenty of investment capital.

Yeah, just look at Varda "manufacture drugs in space," and Colossal "bring back the wooly mammoth." It just doesn't make sense for these to be profitable businesses.

3bhauth
I could imagine some billionaires being willing to pay a lot of money for cloned extinct animals, if they can do it. Varda, they're trying to make ritonavir crystallize in a different way, but even if they can do that in space, and even if there isn't an easier way to do it...the crystals aren't the active form of the drug, it has to dissolve before it can do anything. If you want it to dissolve faster you can use smaller crystals, and if you want it to dissolve slower you can encapsulate it. It's totally meaningless. Earlier, I think they were trying to make ZBLAN optical fibers, but the only reason they were supposedly better in space was because there were fewer particulates than in labs without air filters, and also they're not actually better than current optical fibers in practice.

Reposting a comment from the Substack:

>Recently, he solved this problem!

I'm flattered, but I actually haven't gotten all the way to haploid cells yet. As I wrote in my preprint and associated blog post, right now I can get the cells to initiate meiosis and progress about 3/4 of the way through it (specifically, to the pachytene stage). I'm still working on getting all the way to haploid cells and I have a few potentially promising approaches for this.

Very cool. I wonder which University of Missouri lab the lentiviral plasmid leaked from...

5jefftk
I think it's most likely contamination within the lab doing the nucleic acid extraction, since talking to them they do work with lentiviral vectors.

I went a few times but eventually got grossed out by all the mold. (At least they don't sell live pangolins there.)

At the time, one of the biggest problems in physics was the “Blackbody spectrum”, which describes the spectrum of electromagnetic wavelengths emitted by a Blackbody. The problem with it was that the emitted spectrum was not explainable by known physics. Einstein achieved a breakthrough by considering light not just as a wave, but also as light quanta. Although this idea sufficiently explained the Blackbody spectrum, physicists (at least almost) unanimously rejected it. The fight between the “light is corpuscles” and “light is a wave” faction had been decided a century ago, with a clear victory for the “wave” faction. 

 

I thought blackbody radiation was Planck, not Einstein.

3Towards_Keeperhood
(I think) Planck found the formula that matched the empirically observed distribution, but had no explanation for why it should hold. Einstein found the justification for this formula.

Interestingly, many cancer "neoantigens" (for example, MAGEB1) are also expressed in meiotic cells in the testis. This is because they're usually epigenetically suppressed in healthy tissues, but cancer cells have messed up epigenomes. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer/testis_antigens

Also, I would disagree that synthesizing long polypeptides is easier than synthesizing long mRNAs. With polypeptides you have 20 amino acids to work with, and some require special treatment (protecting groups on sidechains). With mRNAs the chemistry is much simpler.

2bhauth
That's very true. That's not what I said: I said it's not harder and seems better. I'm aware of the chemistry involved and stand by that. Contrary to your implication, oligonucleotide synthesis also requires protecting groups.

Testosterone will land you in more legal trouble than modafinil.

Compounding pharmacies are gray-market. (Buying on "evolutionpeptides.com" would be black-market.)

No mention of modafinil? It's quite useful for maintaining productivity on low amounts of sleep.

2AnthonyC
I was prescribed modafinil for sleep issues for 4 years, 200mg/day. It definitely promoted wakefulness, but also made me more irritable.
1sapphire
I think modafinal is great for a lot of people. But I made the choice to only write up the very best (in terms of expected outcomes) stuff. Given that many substances have risks or legal issues it was much simpler for me to just not mention a lot of stuff. I do not intend any implicit claim that other things aren't useful. But I didn't make a list of 'stuff I've investigated and found less good on average' vs 'stuff I have not investigated'. Thanks for sharing moda is working that well for you

Semaglutide is the real-deal weight loss drug we have been praying for. It works well for 70%+ of people. Losing and keeping weight off is so difficult that prior to ozempic, it was reasonable advice to preach acceptance or extremely restricted diets. Prior to Semaglutide, I used to assume that most of my friends who wanted to lose weight would fail. Now I assume they will trivially succeed if they get on the drugs. Here is how to get on Semaglutide:

  1. I purchased sema, for myself and others, on this site: https://evolutionpeptid
... (read more)
4jimrandomh
That story doesn't describe a gray-market source, it describes a compounding pharmacy that screwed up.

For biology, JoVE ("Journal of Visual Experiments") is a very good source of videos like this. https://www.jove.com/ Unfortunately it's paywalled.

I agree, I think the most likely version of the lab leak scenario does not involve an engineered virus. Personally I would say 60% chance zoonotic, 40% chance lab leak.

Given that they had engineered viruses in the lab at biosafety level II, why do you think the most likely version of the lab leak scenario does not involve an engineered virus?

Answer by Metacelsus30

Spearman (rank) correlation is often a good alternative for nonlinear relationships.

1cubefox
That's not quite right. It measures the strength of monotonic relationships, which which may also be linear. So this measure is more general than Pearson correlation. It just measures whether, if one value increases, the other value increases as well, not whether they increase at the same rate.

>heats the water (adenosine diphosphate, ADP) to a closely related, higher-energy form (adenosine triphosphate, ATP), which is steam.

I would say protons are the steam, not the ATP/ADP. The electron transport chain "pressurizes" protons by pumping them, and then the protons flow through the ATP synthase "turbine".

I think the exact origin of SARS-CoV-2 is a largely irrelevant question. 

Given that it's plausible it could have come either from a wet market or risky biological research, we should shut down both.

(Personally I would say 60% "wet market", 40% "unintentional lab leak")

That make sense. If I were going for sarcasm I would have said Kary Mullis.

A Nobel-winning scientist like Gregg Semenza would obviously be the best possible expert

 

Funny you should say that . . .
https://retractionwatch.com/2023/10/02/nobel-prize-winner-gregg-semenza-tallies-tenth-retraction/
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-03032-9
 

6gwern
While he may be a co-winner he's not exactly a household name of a 'Nobelist', and certainly in our sort of online circles he's increasingly famous for non-Nobel things; OP is being sarcastic:

Emmett Shear on college-level organic chemistry. His experience was that the class was composed of a mix of science track and premed track students. The science students are there to actually learn and retain the material, so even though it’s a massive amount of compounding facts you have to learn, they do fine. Whereas the premed students are happy to do the work, but are thinking of the class as a structural barrier rather than source of information, so they cram rather than retaining information, and then struggle. So it is a question of motivation. How

... (read more)

As a scientist I strongly agree. It seems like there's been a few steps towards this in recent years, for example with things like the Arc Institute or FROs. Hopefully this model gets the attention of government funders.

>I haven’t heard a “Polack joke” in years and I wouldn’t be surprised if the rising generation is mostly unaware that there ever was such a thing.

On the contrary, I heard one at an ACX meetup in Boston in summer 2023. I was not amused.

1RamblinDash
I live in the Boston area too, and this doesn't exactly sell me on going to one of those meetups :/

>I think it makes sense for some country with a high rate of alcohol flush reaction to legalize using 1-butanol or oxane as a substitute for ethanol in drinks served at bars and restaurants.

The only downside is that butanol tastes pretty awful.

6gwern
Do all the butanols taste bad? I see on WP that it notes that 2-butanol has a 'burning flavor' which seems like a drawback, but I don't see any flavor (just 'alcoholic odor') mentioned in 'butanol' (although 1-butanol sounds like it's so easy to get I'd expect it to mention flavor & abuse if it were a viable ethanol substitute). https://www.psychiatrist.com/pcc/recreational-2-methyl-2-butanol-use-emerging-wave-misuse-ethanol-substitute/
3bhauth
But is it awful at 1-2% in water, mixed with other stuff? Apparently the odor is less pleasant at higher concentrations, and hedonically neutral at 300 ppm.

I think it would be useful to examine cases where important patents for Input X expired and prices came down quickly, allowing Input X to be used to produce much more of Product Y.

That is very wrong. Diamond is hard to make with enzymes because they can't stabilize intermediates for adding carbons to diamond.

 

As a biochemist, I agree.

It does integrate into the genome. It's gene therapy, but not gene editing (which means editing an existing gene).

Consolidating my previous comments:

I discussed this project with GeneSmith and I think it is promising, though very challenging to implement in practice. The hardest part will be safely and efficiently delivering the editing agent to a large fraction of the cells in the brain.

Some other points:

CAR T-cell therapy, a treatment for certain types of cancer, requires the removal of white blood cells via IV, genetic modification of those cells outside the body, culturing of the modified cells, chemotherapy to kill off most of the remaining unmodified cells in th

... (read more)

Thanks! I've added a link to the paper by Cory Smith and others to the relevant section and updated the section about CAR T-cell therapy to read "adds a single gene" rather than "modifies a single gene"

CAR T-cell therapy, a treatment for certain types of cancer, requires the removal of white blood cells via IV, genetic modification of those cells outside the body, culturing of the modified cells, chemotherapy to kill off most of the remaining unmodified cells in the body, and reinjection of the genetically engineered ones. The price is  $500,000 to $1,000,000.

And it only modifies a single gene.

This makes it sound like CAR-T is gene editing, but it isn't. Instead of editing a gene, it introduces a new one (a chimeric T-cell receptor). Although some c... (read more)

3GeneSmith
I was under the impression that the new gene usually integrated into the cell's genome. But that impression was from a conversation with GPT-4 so perhaps I'm mistaken. Or perhaps new gene insertions are not considered gene editing?

There's also a lot of statistics that go into designing experiments (rather than analyzing them afterwards). For example, fractional factorial designs, or adaptive clinical trials

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