All of mingyuan's Comments + Replies

[Context: For ~4 years up until a year ago it was my job to keep track of rationalist groups around the world, also I happen to have gone to UChicago]

I don't know of any other currently active rationality groups at universities, but I recommend joining this Discord server for people who run rationality meetups. Some of the organizers in there previously ran university groups, and even those who didn't will probably have helpful advice. 

For UChicago in particular, you probably already know this but you'll need to apply for RSO status before December 1s... (read more)

1Noah Birnbaum
Thank you for your help! I was already in the Discord and have been in contact (and am a part of) the EA group here. 

I do have some general sense here that those aren't emotionally realistic options for people with my emotional makeup.

Here's my take: From the inside, Nate feels like he is incapable of not becoming very frustrated, even angry. In a sense this is true. But this state of affairs is in fact a consequence of Nate not being subject to the same rules as everybody else.

I think I know what it's like, to an extent — I've had anger issues since I was born, and despite speaking openly about it to many people, I've never met anyone who's been able to really understan... (read more)

Whoops very late reply but in the pictures, the posters are actually just taped to 8.5"x10" sheets of black cardstock; after printing the virtues themselves we manually cut them all down to have 1/2" margins all around.

When we moved houses in 2019 we did frame them, using these frames that conveniently come in a 12 pack! (For the void we put a piece of black paper in the frame.)

Agree! Also, my response to the sentence you quoted would be: Playing guitar and playing piano are (for many people) almost entirely separate skills, which feel very different, are learned differently, and have different cultural connotations. People are more likely to base their choice of instrument on that (and the things TAG mentioned) than on some kind of optimization for 'most versatile musical instrument'.

But also I don't disagree with the original quote :) I mean, it definitely seems true that a lot of people play the piano and guitar, fewer (but st... (read more)

The advice this post points to is probably useful for some people, but I think LessWrongers are the last people who need to be told to be less socially graceful in favor of more epistemic virtue. So much basic kindness is already lacking in the way that many rationalists interact, and it's often deeply painful to be around.

Also, I just don't really buy that there's a necessary, direct tradeoff between epistemic virtue and social grace. I am quite blunt, honest, and (I believe) epistemically virtuous, but I still generally interact in a way that endears me ... (read more)

1Said Achmiz
I would certainly have thought this, but recent experience has shown the diametric opposite to be true. The OP’s advice is sorely needed here more than almost anywhere else. In particular, it is not just that LessWrongers need to be told to be less socially graceful, but—and especially—that they need to be told to demand less “social grace” (if what’s demanded even deserves such a respectful term) from others. I agree with this. But it’s precisely the “basic kindness” which doesn’t interfere with “epistemic virtues” that rationalists are unusually bad at; and, conversely, precisely the “basic kindness” (though, again, I consider this to be a tendentious description in that case) which does interfere with “epistemic virtues” that’s mostly commonly demanded. This leaves us with the worst of both worlds. I do not know you personally, so I certainly can’t dispute nor affirm this claim. But it does seem to me to be an entirely plausible claim… … if, and only if, we construe “social grace” in such a way that rules out its interference with epistemics (cf. this comment). Now, I think that this is a reasonable use of the term “social grace” (and for this reason I think that Zack has made a somewhat unfortunate word choice in the post’s title). The trouble is, such a construal makes your claim a question-begging one. And if what you mean is that, for example, in a scenario like the Feyman story in the OP, you would nevertheless attend to social status, behave with deference, couch your disagreements in qualifications, avoid outright saying to people’s faces that they’re wrong or that their idea is bad, etc., etc., well… then I think that your claim that such “social grace” doesn’t interfere with “epistemic virtue” is just flat-out false.

I love this post, you're one of my favorite bloggers

A trauma is an instance where something hurts you, and you develop coping mechanisms to route around the hurt, but the coping mechanisms limit your action space, blind you to some things, and distort your thinking a bit.

🫣

You can fix your emotional problems/confusions, but it'll take awhile.

But how?

This is not a very good LW comment, but, I’m interested in talking about this with you some time if you’re up for it.

Okay I bought the specific LED lights you linked, and I have to disagree. The color temperature is nice enough, but they have a very noticeable refresh rate, such that if I wave them back and forth my eyes have trouble keeping track of them. I don't think these are any better than other LED string lights I have, and my husband thinks they're probably worse (more noticeable flicker, though perhaps comparable CRI). I would definitely not light a space with them.

That said, I'm not put out about having spent $10 on these, because they're supposedly meant for outdoor use, and I wanted our front porch to be more illuminated anyway and basically don't care about the light quality there. And the claim did seem worth testing!

2AnthonyC
Fair enough, I guess I'm just not that sensitive to it.

Maybe, although the OP does say "How could something as fundamental as protein deficiency not be a standard, ordinary thing we test for?", so it sounded like it hadn't been tested at all.

But yeah now you've made me want to criticize the whole idea of normal ranges! One time I had a vitamin D deficiency that had me extremely ill for three months and even bedridden for part of that time, but clinically it was only mildly out of range, and the doctor just told me "Your vitamin D level is a bit low" – which I feel didn't sufficiently suggest that it might be t... (read more)

1Zian
In a later comment, the original poster said that the Total Protein seemed fine. Unfortunately, https://www.ajkd.org/article/S0272-6386(99)70278-7/fulltext suggests that the person looking at the labs would have to know that they ought to look closely at the albumin level, specifically. It wouldn't be the first time that "Reality has a surprising amount of detail" where overlooking 1 thing is enough to get into trouble. It would be unsurprising if the albumin level turned out to be low, if the A/G ratio was slightly off despite the normal-looking total protein values, etc. As SirTruffleberry said, this situation would be a place where having long-term trends could help.
7Viliam
I had a blood test once as a part of a regular checkup, and I suspected that some symptoms I have might be caused by iron deficiency. But the doctor looked at the results and said "nope, all values are within the norm". I told him my hypothesis, and he showed me the scale for iron, with the interval of "healthy", and he showed me that my results were exactly one pixel above the minimum. Which means healthy, yay! Because it would be a deficiency only if it was at least one pixel below the minimum. (Then I took supplements anyway and felt better. Of course, chances are it was just a placebo effect.) I happen to be a tall white man, but I wish doctors distinguished between "normal" and "technically still normal" values. Damn, I am not asking whether I am eligible for disability. I am merely curious about whether there is some trivial action I could take that has a potential to make me feel significantly better. (Not in USA, btw. Just saying, because the article mentions USA.)
5PeterMcCluskey
Most of the problem with the reference ranges is that they are usually just intended to reflect what 95% of the reference population will have. That's much easier to measure than the range which indicates good health. There isn't much incentive for any authority to establish guidelines for healthy ranges. So too many people end up equating "normal" results with good results, because normal is what gets quantified, and is usually what is reported on test results.
5AnthonyC
As a tall white man myself, I'd say that I have one value that's been somewhat out of range on every bloodwork panel I've had in a decade, and no doctor I've asked has cared. I've also found that I benefit from more of some vitamins than the ranges suggest I should need, so even for someone like me there's a lot of individual variation. Summary: I think you're right, but the ranges are even more nonsensical than that.
7SirTruffleberry
This is why we need a healthcare system in which people can get regular checkups. They should have an extensive medical history on you, that way their comparisons take into account what is "normal for you" and not just whether you're "normal amongst the population", since the latter may not even be relevant.

This comment made me happy! Thanks for the positivity!! 💖

Hm, so, I definitely agree about having very little faith in the modern medical system's ability to figure out most problems. I have a lot of experience with this myself and it's rough — I'm sorry it was bad for you and I'm glad you got better!

However, I'm pretty surprised that your protein levels were never tested! When I go to a doctor in America and tell them that some new thing is mysteriously wrong with me, their first recourse is pretty much always to order blood tests, and consequently I have had my blood protein levels checked six times in the past... (read more)

Funny you should mention this; it made me check my records. It turns out that none of the doctors actually requested bloodwork. However, I do have my own bloodwork, which I do every 4-6 months on my own. Looking through that, what I see for heptatic protein level is 7.2+-0.2 for the past two and a half years.

This includes my most recent test, where I had been taking massive amounts of protein for months. So whatever that test is measuring, it doesn't actually seem related to the amount of protein the body has available or needs.

1Zian
It is also possible that his lab values fell just barely within the normal ranges.

Interesting, I'll have to get some and see what I think! I usually steer clear of battery-pack lights because of some experiences where they died almost immediately, so I wouldn't have stumbled upon them myself. I am really sensitive to light quality though, so we'll see :)

I have not worked on the Inn, but the search term for that kind of light is 'recessed channel lighting' :) 

(I guess I should mention in the post that my recommendations were rental-space-oriented; Lightcone was able to install this recessed lighting because they own the space and can do whatever they want to it, but it's too invasive for a rental.)

3ada
Gotcha, and thank you so much for writing this post!

I'm surprised that you've omitted window treatments. Maybe they're just less of a thing that people think about in the spaces that you're documenting here?

Yeah, I'd actually have a ton more to say about making a space good as it applies to your home, but it didn't all seem relevant here — e.g. the Lightcone offices were in a WeWork with windows that didn't open. (ETA: Like I said at the top of the post, this isn't a guide to what I think is optimal; that would look pretty different.)

But totally agree with everything you said about windows! I especially lov... (read more)

So... when can we get the optimal guide, if this isn't it? :)

1nim
That's such pretty privacy film! Seeing it in a work space makes me wonder: Do you notice it cutting back on monitor glare from light coming in the window?

Oh thank you, I had no idea! I just thought the article was cool but knew very little about the topic going in.

Anyone claiming a particular style, brand, fabric, or article of clothing is optimal, full stop, is either lying, trying to sell you something, or confused about how optimization works

That's fair... but also I want to spread the word about my optimal dress. While it's only sold new on StitchFix, there are tons available secondhand (and usually cheaper) on Poshmark, and it comes in dozens of fabrics/patterns! (Search 'Kaileigh faux wrap dress' or just 'Kaileigh dress', in your size.)

It's obviously not actually 'optimal' but it's really comfortable and looks... (read more)

I basically haven't done any further research since I wrote this article, but my understanding was that you can fund a Cryonics Institute contract with work-provided life insurance, but it's not possible for Alcor, because Alcor has stipulations about who owns the policy. I hope that helps!

Epistemic check: Are you going off any kind of study or anything for baby boomers "being the most narcissistic in human history", or is that just a thing that feels good to say? 

I'm extremely skeptical that parents have become more abusive in general — life in the past was terrible in all sorts of ways and I'd be surprised if people were on average nicer fifty years ago. If you know more people your age who claim to have had abusive parents than people older than you who claim the same, consider the types of alternate explanations Zvi gives above, e.g... (read more)

0MSRayne
You're right that abuse is very old and is probably just now becoming something that people reflect on en masse, which would imply it's not the major cause of this shift. As for my evidence that baby boomers are narcissistic, well, I only have popular culture, my own gut feelings, and various possibly biased history youtubers as sources; I have never thought to look for studies on the matter. I would place at least 70% credence on there being at least one well-regarded study finding that boomers on average have a higher proportion of narcissistic traits than earlier generations, however.

I don't think it's that new or weird, I mean, I guess it depends what you mean by 'kids', but universities have been hotbeds of political activism since long before the internet. And I know that I had strong political 'opinions' growing up just by virtue of living in a city where 95% of the adults I encountered were liberal. My parents took me and my sister to protests against the Iraq War when I was five despite not being particularly politically involved people, and the 2011 Wisconsin protests happened when I was 14 and I and most of my friends were there (especially since school was canceled, so there wasn't much reason not to go).

1[anonymous]
Seems like politics are almost always led by the parties and their leaders themselves rather than the citizens involved. Then the parties themselves take in their supporters reactions and the cycle repeats. There has been an ongoing trend where the two parties in the US are moving further away from each other. This has led to both some people stopped caring as much as they did and some people started caring more than they did before. Those who drop out are more centrist while the more extremes are driven to increased engagement. I wonder if the same trend applies to the topic discussed in this post. 

What, lockdown? Absolutely not. Sticking around in Berkeley? I don't know, probably

Not Zvi and not a parent but: Every kid learns about death, and it is true for every kid that they might not get to grow up. Extinction is different, but not so different (to a child's mind) from the threat of nuclear war, or even regular war, both of which many children have had to face before. I'm also not aware of concrete policies on how to explain to kids that they and everyone they love will die, but it's not like it's a new problem.

3juliawise
I haven't had this conversation with my kids because they haven't asked, but I think the main things they disvalue about death are 1. their own death and 2. separation from people they love. I think the additional badness of "and everyone else would be dead too" is less salient to young kids. There might actually be some comfort in thinking we'd all go together instead of some people being left behind. One of my kids got interested in asteroid strikes after learning about how dinosaurs went extinct, about age 4. She'd look out the window periodically to see if one was coming, but she didn't seem disturbed in the way that I would be if I thought there might be an asteroid outside the window. Even if we'd had the conversation, I'd expect this to be a pretty small factor in their overall quality of life. Actual loss of someone they know is a bigger deal to them, but learning about death in general seem to result in some bedtime tears and not a lot of other obvious effects.

The Chinese effort and one child policy would fall into the ‘young adult dystopia’ book section if it was fictional.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Among_the_Hidden

As resident hyperlocal cryonics sort-of-expert-I-guess, I do not recommend this; see mukashi's answer. Relatedly: The legal hurdle is that it's considered murder.

6Tetraspace
Further to it being legally considered murder, tricky plans to get around this are things that appear to the state like possibly a tricky plan to get around murder, and result in an autopsy which at best and only if the cryonics organisation cooperates leaves one sitting around warm for over a day with no chance of cryoprotectant perfusion later.

Oh my god we're finally here! It's been so very long. Your posts were so important to me during the worst of the pandemic; I wouldn't know how to possibly thank you enough, and also I 100% support you stopping. Onward and upward <3

I have seen this happen with one pair of shoes; not sure of the material but they disintegrated while being worn for the first time out of lockdown. But I've successfully stored (or seen stored) lots and lots of other pairs of shoes where the material has held up fine, including leather, cloth, suede, and rubber.

Also if you find a clothing item you really like, it's often a good idea to buy more than one, because clothing (/shoes/etc) is more likely to go out of production than most types of things, due to Fashion. 

3Pimgd
Shoes might be the one item that you can't do this for, but maybe I'm wrong.  Pre-covid, I bought a pair of shoes. But I am averse to throwing items away before they are properly "dead" (or until they really require effort), so shoes that still have some soles on them (and fit comfortably rather than the tight fit of new shoes) would still be used. Because there were lockdowns and the like, I wore my shoes a lot less. I went out a lot less. My grocery store is rather close to my house. The new shoes spent two years in their shoe box. Lockdowns were lifted and I started spending more time outdoors again. Within a month, my old shoes were deemed "properly dead", and I switched to the new shoes. But within two weeks, the leather on them started flaking off.  Maybe I bought poor quality shoes. Or maybe I didn't store my new shoes well. But I've got the feeling that shoes don't keep as well as most other clothing does, and that you won't get the full lifetime out of an old-new pair.

I expect some of this is different masks, being a good fit for people with different shaped heads and different preferences

I've worn these before, but with long slippery hair they don't stay on that well and also mess up my hair like crazy

I don't understand why the target subject here should be people who have never put any effort or thought into their diet. That way you don't get relevant evidence about the prevalence of iron deficiency among veg*ns, but only the almost trivial conclusion that people who don't take any care of their dietary health have some deficiencies.

 

It makes plenty of sense to me; I think the vast majority of people don't put any thought into what vitamins they might be deficient in. I was vegan in college for ethical reasons, and I was in the school's vegan / an... (read more)

1Dylan Richardson
Since this comment got linked to, and we are throwing around anecdotal evidence, I'll add mine: the animal rights vegan club at my uni had at least one individual quite keen on supplementing (not in a wacky way, mostly commonsensical) and I didn't hear any push back from the other members. And none of them ever heard of EA. And my very leftist vegan roommate had B12 & Creatine (I assume they took them). And I assume EA is at a equal, likely higher epistemic standpoint.

I don't doubt your anecdotal experience is as you're telling it, but mine has been completely different, so much so that it sounds crazy to me to spend a whole year being vegan, and participating in animal advocacy, without hearing mention of B12 supplementation. Literally all vegans I've met have very prominently stressed the importance of dietary health and B12 supplementation. Heck, even all the vegan shitposts are about B12!

comparing [~vegans who don't take supplements] to [omnivores who don't take supplements] will give the clearest data

Even if that m... (read more)

What was hard about drinking from a can?

My understanding is that the anti-tourniquet meme is outdated, and the emergency medical response advice now is that the benefits of potentially preventing someone's death from blood loss outweigh the risk of amputation. I recall being taught in my college course in 2015 that it's fine to put on a tourniquet, just mark it with the time. And a few years ago, when my mom pulled a heavily bleeding man out of the cab of his overturned truck and wouldn't let any of the other truckers apply a tourniquet to his arm because she'd been taught that you should never ... (read more)

3bortrand
Thanks. This is helpful context. The class I took was only a year ago, so I don’t feel like that obviously fits the “this information is just outdated” narrative, but I am genuinely unsure whether it was good advice at this point. On the margin my statement may have been too strong, and I don’t want to suggest that never using a tourniquet is correct, but I do think it’s probably correct for people to know the risks and alternatives before applying one.

I took an emergency medical response course in college (~40 hours, all in-person, with a mix of verbal lessons and practical exercises in each class), and the most important thing I learned was that having memorized what to do in an emergency is not sufficient to get you to actually act. [ETA: Also, to call 911 in an emergency!]

I got 100% on the written test and still remember much of it to this day, but I am an absolutely terrible person to go to in an emergency because I panic and freeze every time. I've seen this play out in myself many times over my li... (read more)

3Ebenezer Dukakis
In addition to training, Leo Prinsloo mentions the value of "pre-visualization" in this video. Could work well with Anki cards -- don't just review the card, pre-visualize yourself putting the steps into action so it becomes automatic under pressure.

Thanks for the last section because that's totally what I was going to comment while reading the rest of it! Feminine beauty standards are so deeply internalized that they don't subjectively feel like they have anything to do with men or dating — they feel closer to, like, moral truths? Or something?

Like, I'm afraid of gaining weight not because I think it would be bad for my health or make my husband stop liking me, but because I've internalized the message that being fat is an unacceptable moral failing — and I've felt this way since at least the beginni... (read more)

I'm confused, it was my impression that a lot of Chinese people, including in the West, have been masking strategically since like 2003 (the first SARS wave), i.e. wearing a mask if they are sick, or if the risk of getting sick is unusually high (e.g. a bad flu season at university). The only people I ever saw wearing masks for illness prior to 2020 were Asian (except for one very immunocompromised white friend). Honestly it seems crazy to me that the norm prior to this was just to do nothing to try to prevent illness, because being sick is both terrible i... (read more)

I use ibuprofen almost exclusively because a source I trusted told me years ago that it was better for me longterm than acetaminophen (alas I have no idea what the source was) but I think the same principle applies. I always take one pill to start because I worry about developing tolerance / rebound headaches / kidney damage / stomach upset, and then if that doesn't seem to make a difference within 60-90 minutes, I take a second one. I find that usually I need two (i.e. the recommended dose), perhaps since I only take painkillers at all when the pain has r... (read more)

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/bay-area-winter-solstice-2022-tickets-443735594107

This seems wrong to me? Hard to say because it was so long ago but I imagine I spent at least 15 hours a week on homework. I went to a basically normal public high school, and while most of the work wasn't hard for me (varying between mindnumbingly easy and moderately challenging), there was just so much of it that it took a ton of time. Sure I wasn't 'working smart', and I was a perfectionist to an unreasonable level, and I cared too much about what my teachers thought of me, but I imagine none of those things are unusual for kids trying to get into good schools.

No. I would wake up early to do homework, spend 8 to 10 hours at school (and often do homework during class), and then go home and do more homework. Looking back I got a lot more value out of my non-school activities and hobbies than I did out of doing homework, but there was just so little time for anything else. I was constantly stressed about missing deadlines and usually extremely tired. Meanwhile when my husband was in high school he did zero homework and actually did things in the world like building a house and starting a startup, which seems way be... (read more)

I feel emotional whiplash from moving out of young adulthood into regular adulthood. It feels like I was robbed of the transition between the two. I wish we could have peacefully handed the baton off to the next generation, rather than waking up one day and finding it gone.

I'm maybe five years younger than you but I feel much the same way. Before lockdown I felt like I was just beginning adulthood — I'd been out of college for less than three years and graduated pretty young, so in most workplaces or social situations I was one of the youngest people aroun... (read more)

One of my objections is similar to benjamincosman's — people not taking no for an answer in romantic/sexual contexts is a problem I've seen in people of all ages, races, cultural backgrounds, socioeconomic status, social status, and points on the autism spectrum. It was a big problem at both my urban public high school and my elite private college.

Yes power differentials make it worse, yes it's more of a problem in an environment as gender-imbalanced as EA or the wider Bay Area tech scene, and yes people who are striving to be moral should hold themselves ... (read more)

I'm glad you like the sequence! I went with a $200,000 death benefit to hopefully account for inflation.

Note that the date has been changed to Thursday the 27th!

Logging on today, I noticed that all of the posts with this problem (today) were personal blogposts; are those treated differently? Also some of these are tagged 'ML', but that makes it through the AI filter, which.... I guess is intended behavior :/

6Raemon
The situation is that posts show up in the moderator-queue, moderators take a few hours to get to them, and in the meanwhile they are personal blogposts. So if you're okay with hiding all personal blogposts you can solve the problem that way. This would probably also hide other posts you want to see.  I'm hoping we can ship a "authors are nudged to give their post a core-tag" feature soon, which should alleviate a lot of the problem, although might not solve it entirely.

Yeah this is a point that I failed to make in my own comment — it's not just that I'm not interested in AIS content / not technically up to speed, it's that seeing it is often actively extremely upsetting

3the gears to ascension
I'm sorry to hear that! Do you have any thoughts on ways to rephrase the ai content to make it less upsetting? would it help to have news that emphasizes successes, so that you have frequent context that it's going relatively alright and is picking up steam? in general, my view is that yudkowskian paranoia about ai safety is detrimental in large part because it's objectively wrong, and while it's great for him to be freaked out about it, his worried view shouldn't be frightening us; I'm quite excited for superintelligence and I just want us to hurry up and get the safe version working so we can solve a bunch of problems. IMO you should feel able to feel comfy that AI now is pretty much nothing but super cool. [edit to clarify: this is not to say the problem isn't hard; it's that I really do think the capabilities folks know that safety and capabilities were always the same engineering task]

I don't actually know how subforums are implemented on EA Forum but I was imagining like a big thing on the frontpage that's like "Do you want to see the AI stuff or the non-AI stuff?". Does this sound clunky when I write it out?... yes

4Wes F
I would love an option to say "I don't want to read another word about AI alignment ever"

I'm in favor of subforums — from these comments it seems to me that a significant fraction of people are coming to LW either for AI content, or for explicitly non-AI content (including some people who sometimes want one and sometimes the other); if those use cases are already so separate, it seems dumb to keep all those posts in the same stream, when most people are unhappy with that. (Yeah maybe I'm projecting because I'm personally unhappy with it, but, I am very unhappy.)

I used to be fine with the amount of AI content. Maybe a year ago I set a karma pen... (read more)

9Raemon
Ah. We'd had on our todo list "make it so post authors are prompted to tag their posts before publishing them", but it hadn't been super prioritized. This comment updates me to ship this sooner so there'll hopefully be fewer un-tagged AI posts. 
4mingyuan
I don't actually know how subforums are implemented on EA Forum but I was imagining like a big thing on the frontpage that's like "Do you want to see the AI stuff or the non-AI stuff?". Does this sound clunky when I write it out?... yes

And see also also Anna Salamon's How to learn soft skills, which could possibly be helpful here

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