All of nawitus's Comments + Replies

nawitus00

If tipping stopped, waiting staff wages would increase and so would food prices (to pay for the wage increases).

nawitus70

"Arguing against "Women suffer more unfairness""

Nobody has yet provided arguments that women suffer more in e.g. USA. I'd say my points are true to some degree in USA, except for military service and perhaps domestic violence. I've talked with a researcher of income equality, and atleast he said that wages are pretty much equal for male and females in the USA. Income is not. In Finland for example, males have 20% higher income, but they do 20% more work hours yearly.

"Or do you deny the existence of international organizations worki... (read more)

Nobody has yet provided arguments that women suffer more in e.g. USA.

I've add that nobody has provided arguments that women suffer more outside the USA, either. It's just another truism in white liberal middle-class circles. Whether this view is reasonable or not, an argument for it that compares the suffering of men and women worldwide has never been made.

If anyone hold this view, check out the literature on gendercide, and the work of Adam Jones. For example, see his essay on the erasure of male victims in Kosovo. At Gendercide Watch, Jones argues tha... (read more)

-3FAWS
I'm not interested in that sort of argument. My position is that such arguments are mostly useless, and that you'd do better spending your time fixing whatever injustice is most fixable instead of trying to make the injustice exactly balanced. (As you should know if you read the comment you were replying to) I made the statement you keep going back to as an aside and because it's obviously true: There are no places where enough men are treated unfairly enough to make up for places like Saudi Arabia (though apparently even Saudi Arabia has been improving somewhat). I don't particularly care whether it's true in particular countries where it's close enough to be non-obvious because I don't think that should guide any decisions in such countries (though I think it's probably true in all but a handful of European countries, and I did give the link on women in parliament which is more evidence than you gave) I'm not sure why the point about a literal global budget seems so important to you. Promoting equality between Finish men and women would be very far down on the list of things as perfectly rational UNICEF would spend money on, a charity devoted to such would presumably score pretty low on GiveWell compared to other equality causes, and I'd certainly hope a Finish LessWrong group would find a better cause to devote themselves to. Why does it matter to you whether that's stated in the form of a hypothetical global budget or not? The statement was mostly just to point out that Finland is untypical anyway.
nawitus40

I made a list of problems in a comment on a website. That's not a good way to make politicial decisions. We need a proper study of the question. I think a priori the 50/50 split between genders is a good balance. You can call that a political compromise, I call it "don't make quick decisions without proper scientific research".

6TheOtherDave
So, I have to actively disagree with this. Not for any reason having anything at all to do with gender or politics or any of that, just on pure decision-making grounds. At every point, we ought to make decisions based on our best estimates based on the evidence we have. If your best estimate isn't 50/50 (which it isn't: you believe the data justify slightly more resources for Finnish men) then it isn't, and there's no reason to use 50/50 rather than your actual best estimate. This has nothing to do with avoiding making quick decisions. You'd be making an equally quick decision to support 50/50 as to support 51/49 or 52/48. This has nothing to do with gathering more data. By all means, study the question properly, and change your estimates as new evidence comes in. Absolutely. But in the meantime we still have to do something, and specifically we ought to make decisions based on our best estimates based on the evidence we have at that time, which in your case is not 50/50. Of course, we've got a cultural (and possibly genetic, I don't know) bias towards an equal-distribution strategy... that "feels fair." So it feels like 50/50 is some kind of special number that you should support instead of your best estimate. But I see no reason to endorse that bias (other than the political one of it being easier to sell a solution that "feels fair").
nawitus30

My data justifies slightly more resources for men, but until we have proper scientific research on the question, I'm okay with a 50/50 split. The split is currently about 97/3 in favor of women, so going to 50/50 would help significantly.

3TheOtherDave
Ah, OK. If you are proposing 50/50 as a political compromise rather than actually asserting that it's the correct target, then my questions are beside the point. Never mind, then.
nawitus100

I didn't claim you were talking about Finland. However, many of those issues are true in most Western nations. It's just that I'm not an expert in any other country.

"a global equality resource budget"

This doesn't even exist..

-1FAWS
My guess is that at least 98% of the world population lives in countries with less gender equality than Finland, and likewise at least 85% of the LW readership. (EDIT: According to http://www.ipu.org/wmn-e/classif.htm 1.5% of world population lives in countries with gender division in the lower house equivalent at least as close to balanced as in Finland, as do at least 6% (but probably no more than 8%) of LW readers. ) Arguing against "Women suffer more unfairness" with the example of Finland makes about as much sense as arguing against "Cars cause more fatalities than rhinos" with the example of a specific subdivision of an African country with high rhino fatalities (and such a statement wouldn't imply that car safety should have a higher priority than protecting people and rhinos from each other even there) . It makes just as much sense to talk about a global equality resource budget as it makes to talk about "equality resources" in the first place. Or do you deny the existence of international organizations working for equality, and that individuals have some (limited) ability to choose for which cause in which country they fight? I mentioned non-transferable resources in my comment and never implied anything about which of those, if either, dominated.
nawitus00

"For example, by "evenly" do you mean 50/50 between these two causes?"

Yes.

More information here: http://lesswrong.com/r/discussion/lw/4vj/a_rationalists_account_of_objectification/3r3j

3TheOtherDave
I don't quite see the connection between the information you cite, and the 50/50 split policy recommendation. From my perspective, if we can spend resources in such a way that we collectively get the most bang for the buck and reduce the spread of the curve, that's a win. (In real life those goals are often in conflict, but that's beside my point right now.) If it so happens that the way to do that is to equally support men and women in a particular community, then a 50/50 split of resources makes sense in that community. If that's not the case, then a different resource split makes more sense. Whether that split is weighted towards men or women will depend on the facts of the situation. Maybe I conclude based on the information you cite that I should support Finnish men more than Finnish women, for example. But I don't see how that data justifies a 50/50 split.
nawitus200

"Women suffer more unfairness so presumably most resources would be directed towards them anyway, but there could easily be a number of low hanging fruit on the male side."

This claim is often made, but I haven't seen any calculations to back it up. I'm active in the gender equality debate in Finland, so I can only talk about Finnish statistics:

  • Men are forced to serve on average 8,5 months in "slave work". No modern work regulations apply. I personally witnessed many broken bones and other health problems which happened to my friends
... (read more)
-14FAWS
nawitus160

"I'm a tall white American male, so sometimes it takes a bit of work for me to understand what it's like to be a member of a suppressed group."

Females are suppressed, and so are males. Gender roles suppress both genders. They also offer advantages to both genders.

List of male privileges: http://www.amptoons.com/blog/the-male-privilege-checklist/

List of female privileges: http://masculistadvice.blogspot.com/2008/06/female-privilege-list.html

It is true that popular discourse paints females as the suppressed group and males as the non-suppressed gro... (read more)

4nthmost
Why would you reference a list of "female privilege" that includes circumcision? That's not exactly helping you prove your point.
0TheOtherDave
Can you clarify what you mean by "evenly distributed"? For example, by "evenly" do you mean 50/50 between these two causes? Do you mean distributed proportionally based on the number of men and the number of women in the community? Do you mean distributed proportionally to reflect the gender distribution in the community (which is noticeably more complex than "number of men" and "number of women")? Do you mean distributed proportionally based on the degree to which different genders experience differential harm under the current arrangement? Do you mean something else?
-6Normal_Anomaly
nawitus60

I stutter, and I've done it for as long as I can remember. Anyone know how to beat it? I feel this has pretty significant (negative) effects on my life, because I'm often afraid of speaking up in a group, as stuttering is extremely embarrassing.

3Desrtopa
Most people with a stuttering problem are able to speak normally when speaking in unison with others. There are anti-stuttering devices based on this principle, which play the speaker's own words back into their ear as they say them, which eliminates or dramatically reduces stuttering symptoms in a majority of those afflicted, while worn. Unfortunately, their price tends to run in the range of thousands of dollars, and they have no carryover effects when removed.
0nick012000
I've read that singing can allow people who stutter to speak relatively normally, since it uses a different part of the brain to normal speech.
0Blueberry
You may be interested in the Monster Study, which suggests that it's your fear of embarassment and self-consciousness that actually causes the stuttering.
0Elliot_Olds
I stutter and have done a lot of research on stuttering. It's rare that adult stutterers ever completely stop stuttering, but these two ebooks are the best resources I know of for dealing with it: http://www.stutteringhelp.org/Portals/English/Book_0012_tenth_ed.pdf http://www.scribd.com/doc/23283047/Easy-Stuttering-Avoidance-Reduction-Therapy The short version is that the less you try to suppress or conceal your stuttering the less severe it will become in the long run.
4TheOtherDave
My only experience with stuttering was while I was recovering from post-stroke aphasia. My speech therapist mostly suggested that every time I started to stutter I should stop trying to talk altogether, take a deliberate pause, and then concentrate on articulating... each... word... individually instead of letting my brain rush on ahead to the stuff I was about to say. Or, if that wasn't enough, articulating each syllable. That worked pretty well, though it replaced the stuttering with a kind of slow monotone speech that was also kind of embarrassing. Fortunately for me, the brain damage was temporary, so after a few months of this I started being able to speak more smoothly again. (Toastmasters helped a lot with that part, as did improv theatre classes.) I have no idea if the same sorts of techniques would work for a less acute form of stuttering, though it seems like they ought to. Edit Oh, and the other thing that helped was getting enough sleep.
nawitus00

And that's why we need an article somewhere which would define some common terms, so you don't have to define them all over again in every article about consciousness.

nawitus00

Yet qualia cannot be measured empirically (atleast that's the consensus), which makes such tests extremely unlikely. And this discussion seems to turn into a regular qualia debate. I'm not sure if that's desirable.

2WrongBot
Yet. No one knows what science doesn't know.
0Oscar_Cunningham
I agree that it's not desirable.
nawitus00

He is probably talking about the hard problem of consciousness, e.g. whether qualia exists. While it's possible conceptually to have empirical tests for subjective consciousness, it's seems extremely unlikely.

We can already imagine a computational simulation of the brain, and empirical test for qualia seems impossible pretty much by definition. Sure, it's possible to test whether the simulation has self-awareness from a computational point (and it will have that since it's a human brain simulation).

0[anonymous]
I completely share your reluctance to start yet another discussion about qualia, but there's an important meta-issue here. No nontrivial statement about the real world (e.g. the impossibility of something) can ever be true "by definition", because that would make dictionaries capable of sympathetic magic.
4Oscar_Cunningham
If there is a (physical) cause for qualia, such that qualia occur if and only if that cause is present, and we work out what that cause is, then we have an empirical test for subjective conciousness. I wouldn't call that, "extremely unlikely".
nawitus40

There should be some kind of "read this first before talking about consciousness" post which would atleast provide some definitions so articles about consciousness would be comprehensive.

nawitus00

Consciousness actually means a number of different things, so any one definition will make discussion problematic. There really should be a number of different definitions for qualia/subjective consciousness, empirical consciousness etc.

0daedalus2u
nawitus, my post was too long as it is. If I had included multiple discussions of multiple definitions of consciousness and qualia, you would either still be reading it or would have stopped because it was too long.
nawitus-20

And you don't provide any arguments for your claim either..

Okay, here's one: Even with time-continuos self, humans value other people, even though they personally experience anything other peope do. There's some (moral) value in other persons. Maybe people value themselves more, but that's not even relevant to the argument. So, if time-continuos self doesn't exist, people will value their future selfs as much as any other persons, which is atleast more than nothing.

Of course, this assumes that such a person does value other people. May not apply to every single person.

nawitus-20

Eh. If you don't know the argument it's irrational to call it wrong. I didn't really argue anything, I just made an observation for those people who possibly believe that time-continuos self is required for morality.

0Vladimir_Nesov
Your conclusion is wrong, therefore the argument must be wrong as well.
-1Vladimir_Nesov
Example of what? You didn't give your argument, only conclusion. I only guessed that this argument, whatever it is, will more visibly crumble in the case I suggested.
nawitus00

The lack of belief in a time-continuos self would give the same moral value to yourself as to other people, but wouldn't eliminate caring about yourself altogether.

1Vladimir_Nesov
Wrong. To see the error, try applying the argument to structures other than people.
nawitus70

According to these definitions, it could be instrumentally rational to be religious for some subset of people, but not epimestically rational.

nawitus30

You can use the wget program like this: 'wget -m lesswrong.com'. A database download would be easier on the servers though.

nawitus-1-1

As you know, I'm sceptical that classical serial computers with a von Neumann architecture will ever be conscious, let alone have an empathetic appreciation of other conscious minds.

I don't think an article with statements like this belong to this site.

0timtyler
The content seems relevant. Can the font be fixed?
7wnoise
I don't think it's terribly useful as a throwaway comment, distracting from the rest of the argument. It's certainly clear that the consensus on this site is the opposite (as is my opinion), but that's not quite enough of a good reason for a blanket "it shouldn't be on this site". If it had a good argument behind it (not to necessarily overcome good reasons to believe with it, but enough to at least reasonably engage those reasons) it seems vital that it be on this site. As it happens, I don't expect to see an argument of that form. But I'm willing to be surprised.
nawitus-10

Well, the mentioned Pirate Party is an example of succesfull political activism. Our party is already doing politics even before our first national elections, since the party often gives out statements on new legislation as requested by the justice ministry. Our neighbour parties in Sweden and Germany are even more succesful. And many of the lesswrong/transhumanist people are active in the Finnish Pirate Party.

nawitus-10

I posted a link that showed Singapore had a budget deficit the very second their economy shrinked, in fact, the same thing happened in Western nations. Singapore didn't have to take a loan because thay had a national reserve.

So in fact the policy Singapore has is the same as Western nations, with the only difference that Singapore happened to have money saved. Singapore didn't want to cut spending to they used their savings. There's no real difference in policy, they even have a stimulus package.

1SilasBarta
How do you get that as being a coincidence? The very same things that make a nation spend prudently are the ones that make it have a reserve fund in the first place! What's America's emergency reserve fund? There isn't one -- just the possibility of borrowing more. (Not necessarily a bad move for a nation with the US's credit rating, but still.) I bring this up in part because it parallels the differences between US states. Some states had to get backdoor bailouts through grants for projects, while others (like Texas) only had the budget problem of "couldn't contribute as much to the rainy day fund (a real account) this time". The very concept is foreign to e.g. California. Yeah, yeah, mind = killed, etc.
0Jayson_Virissimo
I see, I don't remember any of that being in the post I replied to (perhaps you edited your post?). I see how that article supports your view that Singapore did engage in "economic stimulus". My (mis)perception comes from the fact that I was only looking at the change in the debt level, when they paid for their "stimulus package" out of savings (so didn't show up as much increase in debt). On the other hand, I think my judgment that Singapore responded better than the US to the economic downturn is still well supported. Their Stimulus was much more focused on lowering the cost of hiring workers than the US stimulus package and for that the current administration deserves some blame. Don't you agree?
nawitus-10

Singapore isin't a Western nation or a fully developed on, and they have extremely high economic growth (around 10%), so that's not comparable to stable Westerne economies. Singapore had economic growth of 1.1% during 2008, so they didn't have to loan anything in that year.

In fact, a quick search showed that Singapore had significant budget deficit for 2009: "-- 2009/2010 budget deficit to be 6 pct of GDP, before accounting for transfers. " So it seems Singapore has used their national reserves immediately after their economy fell, just like all ... (read more)

2Jayson_Virissimo
Whether Singapore is considered "Western" or not is irrelevant. The disagreement was over whether the "economic crisis" forced the current US Government to run up large amount of debt. Singapore shows that not only is it possible to face a global economic crisis without running up large amounts of debt, but that doing so can leave you better off in terms of unemployment. And to claim that Singapore isn't a "developed" nation is quite strange. Singapore has a per capita GDP of $50,300, while the US only has a per capita GDP of $46,400, Germany has a per capita GDP of $34,200, and France has a per capita GDP of $32,800. Are you going to argue that the US, Germany, and France aren't fully developed? The economic crisis only caused large debt increases if going out to eat everyday causes me to take on debt (because I refuse to cut back elsewhere in my budget). The fact remains that there were viable alternatives to multiplying the debt (alternatives that actually worked better in the case of Singapore). The fact that Western nations listened to the economists that told them that current events justifies them increasing their own discretionary power and ability to give handouts to their allies instead of listening to economists that told them otherwise doesn't surprise me one bit.
nawitus-40

Does the MWI make rationality irrelevant? All choices are done in some universe (because there's atleast one extremely improbable quantum event which arranges the particles in your brain to make any choice). Therefore, you will make the correct choice in atleast 1 universe.

Of course, this leads to the problems of continuing conscious experience (or the lack of), and whether you should care of what happens to you in all the possible future worlds that you will exist in.

8Mycroft65536
That doesn't just make rationality irrelevant, it makes everything irrelevant. Love doesn't matter because you don't meet that special someone in every world, and will meet them in at least one world. Education doesn't matter because guessing will get you right somewhere. I want to be happy and right in as many worlds as possible. Rationality matters.
4orthonormal
I want more copies of me to make the correct choice. Cf. this thread, which is relevant here.
3LucasSloan
This might be easier to consider as the simpler case of "given we live in a deterministic universe, what does any choice I make matter?" I would say that I still have to make decisions of how to act and choosing not to act is also a choice, so I should do what ever it is that I want to do. http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Free_will
4EStokes
You'd want to make the correct choice in future worlds. What are the chances of you being in that one world where that happens?
nawitus20

Well, hormones, and chemicals such as DMT or endocannabinoids etc surely affect the thinking progress. But the phrasing of the question is not really clear to say if you can count these.

nawitus-10

You can't compare those, because the economic crisis happened mostly after Bush. Large debts have been taken by pretty much all Western nations.

2Jayson_Virissimo
You can compare those, because the large debts weren't caused by the "economic crisis". The fact that most Western nations also ran up debt doesn't mean the economic crisis caused the debt increase, only that they chose the same response to the economic crisis (which probably has more to do with increasing their own discretionary power than with lowering unemployment). Singapore didn't run up huge levels of debt and has a much lower unemployment level than the countries that did run up debt. They could have chosen otherwise, but didn't.
nawitus30

What we need are studies of damage from vitrification when the operation was not done immediately after death, but after few hours as it usually happens.

nawitus70

I think people shy away from wireheading because a future full of wireheads would be very boring indeed. People like to think there's more to existence than that. They wan't to experience something more interesting than eternal pleasure. And that's exactly what an FAI should allow.

1Vladimir_Nesov
Related post: In Praise of Boredom.
1RobinZ
It falls below Reedspacer's lower bound, for sure.
1timtyler
Could be more boring. There's more than one kind of wirehead. For example, if everyone were a heroin addict, the world might be more boring - but it would still be pretty interesting.

Boring from the perspective of any onlookers not the wirehead.

nawitus30

Somewhat offtopic, but I'd like to see someone writing a GreaseMonkey script which hides the name of the commenter and the current score level on all comments, so you're not being influenced by the status of the commenter and/or the current score level on that comment. The commenter name could be seen with a mouseover so you can reply to it though.

3JGWeissman
You seem to be describing Marcello's anti-kibitzer.
nawitus50

Isin't it more sane to donate money to organizations fighting against existential risks rather than spending money on cryonics?

9AngryParsley
Yes. Your argument applies to everything money can be spent on, not just cryonics. But unlike most things you can spend money on, cryonics has the advantage of forcing you to care about the future. It provides an incentive to donate to fighting existential risk.
3MichaelGR
Since most people who donate to fight existential risks don't donate everything they have above subsistance level, there's usually enough money to do both (since Cryonics via life insurance isn't very expensive afaik).
nawitus00

That's a pretty good explanation. Another way to look at it is to think what would happen if the propeller was not connected to the wheels. In that situation, the cart would travel as fast as the wind, but the propeller would spin at high speed. If you connect the propeller to the wheels that energy is used to further increase velocity.

In fact, it would work if you place a radio controlled clutch between the propeller and the wheels. First wait for the cart to accelerate to wind speed, and the propeller to rotate faster than the wheels (if it's 1:1 ratio without gears), then engage the clutch. The end result would be that the wheels would rotate at a higher speed and thus the cart would travel faster than the wind.

nawitus00

If you're referring to WTC 7, it didn't spontaneously collapse, it collapsed because of a fire. There was 91 000 liters of diesel fuel stored in that building for generators. Anyway, a few years ago a similar university building collapsed in Netherlands I believe. Even if it didn't, just because something happens the first time, doesn't mean the official report is wrong. A lot of things happen the first time, like a nuclear plant has exploded only once in history.

3Vladimir_Nesov
The NIST report states that fuel had nothing to do with the collapse.
nawitus10

Qualia is not a full explanation as of yet, you can think of it as a philosophical problem. There are many arguments to believe in the existence of qualia. It might be possible to show all of them to be false, in fact Dennet has attempted this. After you've shown them all to be false, it's okay to say "qualia doesn't exist". However, it's irrational to claim that since the concept/problem of qualia doesn't predict anything, qualia therefore doesn't exist.

-3thomblake
Nope. It's irrational to claim that qualia does exist when the hypothesis that qualia exists does not entail any predictions. I am not aware of any good arguments in favor of the existence of qualia, and already have a good reason to reject the hypothesis that it exists.
nawitus-10

There are many valid arguments or reason to believe in the existence of qualia, you can't simply say that because we cannot use qualia to predict anything at this point, then you can just ignore qualia. Qualia is "mysterious" in the same way the universe is, we don't know it's properties fully.

-4thomblake
In fact, I can and did. Furthermore, if a hypothesis doesn't predict anything, then it is a meaningless hypothesis; it cannot be tested, and it is not useful even in principle. An explanation that does not suggest a prediction is no explanation at all. Avoid mysterious answers to mysterious questions
nawitus-40

The problem with this argument is, that it doesn't explain anything nor does it solve the hard problem of consciousness. You simply redefine consciousness to mean something experimentally detectable, and then use that to claim p-zombies are impossible. You can move on, but that doesn't leave the original problem answered.

"Consciousness, whatever it may be - a substance, a process, a name for a confusion - is not epiphenomenal; your mind can catch the inner listener in the act of listening, and say so out loud." That's simply a fact about human br... (read more)

6Eliezer Yudkowsky
The essay isn't trying to solve the hard problem of consciousness. It is trying to demonstrate the impossibility of p-zombies. Consciousness is not "redefined" as something experimentally detectable; it is simply pointed out that consciousness defined the usual way is, in fact, experimentally detectable, since we can catch ourselves in the act of listening and visibly move our lips to report it.
-4thomblake
No, the problem with the zombie argument, the notion of 'qualia', and anything postulating mysterious entities, is that they don't explain / predict anything. This post mostly just explains that for people who don't feel like reading Dennett.
nawitus30

Sexbots will be like bots in a computer game. They will be fun, sure, but real players will be even more fun. I don't really see the relevance of 'disapproving bots', some people will prefer them (or maybe be their only choice), and some will choose real players. If someone even enjoys playing with bots more than with real players, let them, it's what they want to do.

nawitus00

If you're an AI, you do not have to (and shouldn't) pay the first $1000, you can just self-modify to pay $1000 in all the following coin flips (if we assume that the AI can easily rewrite/modify it's own behaviour in this way). Human brains probably don't have this capability, so I guess paying $1000 even in the first game makes sense.

0JamesAndrix
That assumes that you didn't expect to face problems like that in the future before omega presented you with the problem, but do expect to face problems like that in the future after omega presents you with the problem. It doesn't work at all if you only get one shot at it. (and you should already be a person who would pay, just in case you do)
nawitus00

This game (along with the prisoner's dilemma and tragedy of the commons) nicely shows how the best choice to make is heavily influenced with how much you know about the other players (and therefore what they vote). If you know that the other players are "rationalists", then you can safely submit 0 (assuming that this hypothetical rational intelligence indeed submits 0). In real world tests you can pretty safely assume that the players are not-perfectly-rational humans. It may also be possible (as you can here) to influence other players.

Please note that being a jerk in off-topic comments is not the same thing as taking a noble stand against the oppressive groupthink.

mjr190

First of all, it's not embarrassing, but rather irrelevant.

Second, it was a good example of how trolls are being hidden by the karma system.

Eliezer Yudkowsky is a high school dropout with no formal education in anything.

...and yet people write lists like this about him.

(Damn, I think that belongs on the list!)

thomblake100

The above comment, it seems, must be taken either: (1) as a joking 'Eliezer Yudkowsky fact' in the style of the post, or (2) as an attempt to state a true fact about Eliezer Yudkowsky for reasons that don't seem important.

If it was (1), I don't get it. How is this hyperbole, or funny?

If it was (2), you fail. Eliezer didn't go to high school, and thus did not drop out.

nawitus-30

The license of Reddit is free software, so it's better to use that term instead of open source.