All of neuromancer92's Comments + Replies

I understand the point you're raising, because it caught me for a while, but I think I also see the remaining downfall of science. Its not that science leads you to the wrong thing, but that it cannot lead you to the right one. You never know if your experiments actually brought you to the right conclusion - it is entirely possible to be utterly wrong, and complete scientific, for generations and centuries.

Not only this, but you can be obviously wrong. We look at people trusting in spontaneous generation, or a spirit theory of disease, and mock them - r... (read more)

3Jakeness
I don't see how what you have said necessitates the "downfall" of science. It seems to me that it only suggests scientists should look at their theories as "the best possible explanation at the current time, which will likely be altered or proven incorrect in the future," rather than the usual "this is right, everything else is wrong." But we already know that this is an improvement everyone should be making to their thought-processes; here scientists are being singled out. It would be appreciated if someone pointed out flaws in what I have said.
3Hul-Gil
I don't believe most of the old "obviously wrong" beliefs, like a spirit theory of disease, were ever actually systematically tested. Experimentation doesn't prevent you from coming to silly conclusions, but it can throw out a lot of them. (A nitpick: Either these things are only obviously wrong in retrospect, or they did not start with reasonable explanations. That is, either we cannot rightfully mock them, or the ideas were ridiculous from the beginning.) As for the rest, I don't disagree with your assertions - only the (implied) view we should take of them. It is certainly true that science can be slow, and true that you can't ever really know if your explanation is the right one. But I think that emphasis on knowing "the real truth", the really right explanation, is missing the point a little; or, in fact, the idea of the One True Explanation itself is unproductive at best and incoherent at worst. After all, even if we eventually have such an understanding of the universe that we can predict the future in its entirety to the finest level of detail theoretically possible, our understanding could still be totally wrong as to what is "actually" happening. Think of Descartes' Evil Genius, for example. We could be very, very confident we had it right... but not totally sure. But - once you are at this point, does it matter? The power of science and rationality lies in their predictive ability. Whether our understanding is the real deal or simply an "[apparently] perfect model" becomes immaterial. So I think yes, science can lead you to the right conclusion, if by "right" we mean "applicable to the observed world" and not The Undoubtable Truth. No such thing exists, after all. The slowness is a disappointment, though. But it's accelerating!

I think this is a key point - given a list of choices, people compare each one to the original statement and say "how well does this fit?" I certainly started that way before an instinct about multiple conditions kicked in. Given that, its not that people are incorrectly finding the chance that A-F are true given the description, but that they are correctly finding the chance that the description is true, given one of A-F.

I think the other circumstances might display tweaked version of the same forces, also. For example, answering the suspension of relations question not as P(X^Y) vs P(Y), but perceiving it as P(Y), given X.

1Bluehawk
But if the question "What is P(X), given Y?" is stated clearly, and then the reader interprets it as "What is P(Y), given X", then that's still an error on their part in the form of poor reading comprehension. Which still highlights a possible flaw in the experiment.

I'm significantly torn on whether to enable this. I understand the downsides of seeing authors (and am confident that I'm engaging in at least some of them), but I have one issue with it. Knowing authors can improve my ability to rapidly and effectively process posts. There's at least one author who makes very good points, but sometimes glosses over issues that turn out to be either quite complicated or openings to criticism of the post. I've found these omissions both important and quite hard to find - at the moment, its worth it to me to leave author... (read more)

0Ronny Fernandez
I have my anti-kibitzer on, I've had it on for two days. I too, read certain posters more carefully than others, but now, rather than deciding who to read carefully by status, I decide who to read carefully by over-viewing the contents of their posts. Of course, you want to give more resources and time to a great master of the art, than to a moderate master. But deciding who is who by status, or letting status weight in as much as it does in humans, is almost as bad as not having any time management at all. It's like time managing, where you also falsely think that some independent variable has something to do with the content.

Rather than being a sane view, this is a logical fallacy. I don't know of a specific name to give it, but survivorship bias and the anthropic principle are both relevant.

The fallacy is this: for anything a person tries to do, every relevant technology will be inadequate up to the one that succeeds. Inherently, the first success at something will end the need to make new steps towards it, so we will never see a new advance where past advances have been sufficient for an end.

The weak anthropic principle says that we only observe our universe when it is suc... (read more)

2Richard_Kennaway
It's rather like the way that you only ever find something in the last place you look.

This suggestion is certainly an interesting one - that clicks happen in places where pre-existing ideas are weak, and "clicky" people have fewer strongly-entrenched concepts.

I think the explanation goes somewhat beyond this however, based on a personal observation that "clicks" seem to preferentially arise for ideas which are, to the best of our understanding, "right". I know people with very low thresholds of belief, and clicky people, and it seems to me that the correlation between the two is negative if it exists. Credulo... (read more)

For me, the discovery that science is too slow was bound up with the realization that science is not safe. My private discovery of the slowness of science didn't come from looking at the process of scientific discovery and reflecting on the time it took - rather, it arose from realizing that the things I learned or discovered via science were slower more painful than those I learned from other methods. "Other methods" encompasses everything from pure mathematics to That Magical Click, the first inescapable and the second, initially, unsupported... (read more)