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All of orange's Comments + Replies

Of Exclusionary Speech and Gender Politics
orange00

I do that on purpose. But I'll fix it.

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Of Exclusionary Speech and Gender Politics
orange20

"My opinion is that LW shouldn't be for PUA/beauty tips or how-to's. But it would be appropriate to discuss why these methods work, under what conditions you'd want to resist them, and what countermeasures you can take. (And I suspect some don't even want it to go this far, or want to restrict PUA more than beauty.)"

To clarify, I was promoting discussing PUA under this context, not FROM THE LENS of a working PUA. Certainly Pickup Artistry should never be actively encouraged on this site - there are way too many sites that handle this better than ... (read more)

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Of Exclusionary Speech and Gender Politics
orange30

The site lost my response; bugger.

I have to object to your first objection there. What can you claim to know about the female sex in general solely based on the fact that you yourself are female? You are just a data point. So, regardless of your gender, I think it's fairly legitimate to say, "You need to realize something about females."

That something -- whether females identify with their own gender more strongly than males -- is absolutely verifiable using scientific channels. The only thing that may be objectionable about my statements - is i... (read more)

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3Nanani
We can certainly agree on this point. Though I hasten to add that if you had indeed presented some sort of research, I would not have made the comment. Without objective fact behind it, it smacked of condescencion. I made no original post. I urge you to read the actual original post my comment was made to respond to, and the threads the prompted it. I will not be recapping the gender kerfluffle for you. Consider your bait safely ignored.
3wedrifid
(The point is good but it is obscured by punctuation. Extra proof reading is recommended when potential readers do not have an incentive to be persuaded by your words.)
Welcome to Less Wrong!
orange10

Your ideas on free will are basically what I came up with too when I was younger. That's kind of comforting.

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Of Exclusionary Speech and Gender Politics
orange00

Valid concern. I don't know how to get more people active, but it couldn't hurt to get more people aware of this community.

The more people you attract, the more likely some percentage of those people will continue to becoming active, contributing members. Everyone starts out as a visitor. Only a few of those end up becoming regulars. If you get more visitors, your regulars proportionally should rise.

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0RobinZ
Contrariwise, the worse a first impression you leave, the fewer visitors will remain long enough to become regulars. It is not a priori obvious which effect is the stronger.
Of Exclusionary Speech and Gender Politics
orange20

Please explain your second statement exactly. I don't see why you have this objection.

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3Nanani
Your comment begins "It might be considerate to realize that females do have a legitimate reason for why they are more salient to their own sex and issues regarding gender". In saying this, you are telling me (a female) that I need to realize something about females. This is questionable, at best, and is so regardless of your own gender. Then you conclude　"... a stronger identification with their own gender. " to which I reply "Balderdash". Gender is a part of one's identity, obviously, but to say that women can't help but feel theirs is more salient is a broad-strokes over-generalizing statement that is ultimately as patroniaing as anything else that can or has been taken to be biased against women. It effectively says "Oh, women can't help but feel they are treated differently," and in doing so, treats them differently. Do you understand the objection, now? More to the point, my original comment was expressing that rationality is NOT a gender issue. I very strongly believe that to let gender issues interfere in one's goals, be they rationality goals or not, is a bad move. That is all.
Of Exclusionary Speech and Gender Politics
orange70

Personally, I think controversy is more interesting than not. The internet keeps proving this over and over again. So if you want to attract more females, KEEP TALKING ABOUT THEM.

Getting offended is one way to get started on a rationalist path because it evokes an emotion. It evokes an inner-conflict. Which can result to greater self-understanding. Offending people is fine. Since it reflects more badly on the offensive person than on the offended person. It might even reflect badly on this community as a whole, but hey, if it gets people to start thinking... (read more)

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5Rain
The topic of PUA seems to suffer from the Streisand effect around here. Mentioning reasons people shouldn't talk about it gets people talking about it, as evidenced by this now quite long, and expanding, thread, and most of the previous threads as well. I deleted my initial comment here since I didn't want to contribute. Now I'd say to others that non-engagement may be a better strategy.
4NancyLebovitz
I think you're assuming that the things you like will work across a wide range of people. Speaking as a woman who posts to LW, I'm not especially interested in PUA being discussed here unless there's some consideration of consent issues. Those consent issues actually have some parallels to FAI problems-- who decides whether someone is better off? By what standards? I would say that the equally offense-laden parallel for PUA would be methods for getting men to commit. I don't know whether they've been as carefully studied as PUA--- at a minimum, it's a harder subject because the cost of experiments is higher. There's an optimal level of controversy and offense for individuals (not necessarily the same for interest and for learning), and it probably isn't the maximal level. Because PUA comes off as dividing women into hackable systems and not worth hacking. If it's too accepted, it can make it seem as though talking to you isn't worth the trouble. "Talking about women" isn't enough. How they're talked about matters.
3RobinZ
I think the key question is the difference between visitors and regulars - we'd like more people to be active, not just show up. Does controversy actually bring in all that many people who stay? P.S. Welcome to Less Wrong! Please feel free to introduce yourself in that thread.
Of Exclusionary Speech and Gender Politics
orange20

It might be considerate to realize that females do have a legitimate reason for why they are more salient to their own sex and issues regarding gender. More so than males. This is because society treats male-ness as the norm versus female-ness, which is treated as special. As a result, many females become VERY AWARE of the fact they are female, have female genitalia, are treated "differently" because of their sex. Perhaps a lot of this awareness is in fact, subconscious. But none-the-less, this results in a stronger identification with their own ... (read more)

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1Nanani
This comment was never intended to attract people to the site, so your last paragraph is not relevant. Please refrain from lecturing a female on what females do or do not do.