All of Pazzaz's Comments + Replies

Pazzaz1211

Being against kids dying isn’t a partisan issue.

Of course it is, Trump paused the program and Biden didn't. The reason that Trump paused the program is that he doesn't want to spend money on the program. He would rather spend money on other things, probably domestically on things in the US and on tax cuts. That's his whole agenda: America First. He doesn't care about other countries or the people in those countries. Thinking that both parties care about babies dying in some far away country is just hopeful thinking.

Pazzaz10

I’ll be rooting for Anora, but wow the awards process is dumb when you actually look at it.

If you want to dislike the awards process even more then you can read anonymous interviews from jury members, which make it clear that some in the jury don't watch that many movies and are generally uninformed – assuming the interviews aren't faked, as anonymous interviews easily are.

Also, I disliked Anora so I'll be rooting against it. :)

Answer by Pazzaz1-1

Probably because of a terrorist who used the alias David Mayer.

3notfnofn
I don't think this explanation makes sense. I asked ChatGPT "Can you tell me things about Akhmed Chatayev", and it had no problem using his actual name over and over. I asked about his aliases and it said Then threw an error message. Edit: upon refresh it said more: (I didn't stop copying there; that was the end of the answer. Full chat)
Pazzaz-10

I don't usually comment about politics (or much of anything else) here so I don't really know how what I should write in these comments, but I think this is more about people wanting to know what Trump supporters are thinking than about determining what they are and aren't right about. If I was trying to prove whether or not my interpretation is correct I supposed I would do this differently.

Sorry for badgering you so much, I've appreciated the discussion. Some of the other Trump supporters here seemed to have very weird beliefs and values, but your val... (read more)

1deepthoughtlife
I get it. I like to poke at things too. I think it did help me figure out a few things about why I think what I do about the subject, I just lose energy for this kind of thing easily. And I have, I honestly wasn't going to answer more questions. I think understanding in politics is good, even though people rarely chang positions due to the arguments, so I'm glad it was helpful. I do agree that many Trump supporters have weird beliefs (I think they're endemic in politics, on all sides, which includes centrists). I don't like what politics does to people's thought processes (and often makes enemies of those who would otherwise get along). I'm sure I have some pretty weird beliefs too, they just don't come up in discussion with other people all the time. The fact that I am more of a centrist in politics is kind of strange actually since it doesn't fit my personality in some ways and it doesn't really feel natural, though I would feel less at home elsewhere. I think I'm not part of a party mostly to lessen (unfortunately not eliminate) the way politics twists my thoughts (I hate the feeling of my thoughts twisting, but it is good I can sometimes tell).
Pazzaz*-3-4

He was saying the election did not actually get held properly and that changes things.

No, it does not. Laws, regulations and the constitution exists in a society in order to coordinate behavior among it's citizens. Laws, regulations and the constitution does not assume that everyone follows the law. In fact, it does the opposite, it assumes that people will break laws, that people will break regulations and that people will go against the constitution. That's why there are mechanisms to punish people who go against them. You cannot terminate the consti... (read more)

3deepthoughtlife
Your interpretation of Trump's words and actions imply he is in favor of circumventing the system of laws and constitution while another interpretation (that I and many others hold) is that his words and actions mean that he thinks the system was not followed, which should be/have been followed. Separately a significant fraction of the American populace also believes it really was not properly followed. (I believe this, though not to the extent that I think it changed the outcome.) Many who believe that are Trump supporters of course, but it is not such a strange interpretation that someone must be a Trump supporter to believe the interpretation reasonable. Many who interpret it this way, including myself, are in fact huge fans of the American Constitution (despite the fact that it does have many flaws), and if we actually believed the same interpretation as you would we condemn him just as much. The people on my side in this believe that he just doesn't mean that. The way I would put it at first thought to summarize how I interpret his words: "The election must be, but was not held properly. Our laws and constitution don't really tell us what to do about a failed election, but the normal order already can't be followed so we have to try to make things work. We could either try to fix the ways in which it is improper which would get me elected, or we can rehold the election so that everything is done properly." I think Trump was saying that in a very emotive and nonanalytical way meant to fire up his base and not as a plan to do anything against the constitution. I obviously don't know why you were downvoted (since I didn't do it) but if you mouse over the symbols on your post, you only got two votes on overall Karma and one on agreement (I'd presume all three were negative). The system doesn't actually go by ones, but it depends on how much Karma the people voting on you have I think (and how strongly they downvoted)?  I would suspect that people that the comm
Pazzaz11

I don't know what Trump actually thinks, and neither do you, but we seem to disagree strongly on it anyway. I don't want to try to read your mind, but that part is at least very obvious.

I don't care that much about what's in his mind. I care what he has done, what he has said and what he will do. The precise motivations don't matter that much to me.

What if Trump said "God showed himself to me and he said the vote was rigged"? As an agnostic who trusts Trump, maybe you would think it was true. But should that matter? No, because godly revelations is not ... (read more)

4deepthoughtlife
We seem to be retreading ground. "It doesn't matter if the election was stolen if it can't be shown to be true through our justice system". That is an absurd standard for whether or not someone should 'try' to use the legal system (which is what Trump did). You are trying to disqualify someone regardless of the truth of the matter based on what the legal system decided to do later. And Trump DID just take the loss (after exhausting the legal avenues), and is now going through the election system as normal in an attempt to win a new election. I also find your claim that it somehow doesn't matter why someone has done something is terrible claim when we are supposed to be deciding based on what will happen in the future, where motives matter a lot. I read the legal reasons the cases were thrown out and there was literally nothing about merits in them, which means they simply didn't want to decide. The courts refusing to do things on the merits of the claim is bad for the credibility of the courts. I told you I don't care about Giuliani, and that the article is very bad. Those are separate things. Whether or not he is guilty of lying (which was not what the stipulations actually mean), I already didn't take his word for anything. The BBC on the other hand, has shown that it won't report in a fair manner on these things and people shouldn't trust them on it. You linked to a cnbc article of bare assertions (not quotes) that were not supported by the statements of the witnesses in the video also included! I talked at length about the video and how the meaning of the testimonies appears to contradict the article. We already discussed your claim about the meaning of Trump's words. And you once again left out:      "Our great “Founders” did not want, and would not condone, False & Fraudulent Elections!" He was saying the election did not actually get held properly and that changes things.
Pazzaz64

They certainly looked suspicious enough in some cases that they should have been investigated.

Yes, I also think it's important to investigate those things. And the US government agrees, which is why they investigated them. But they didn't find much, because the election wasn't stolen.

I think that many of the actions by the Democrats were done in the way they were because they didn't know whether or not there was rampant cheating causing these anomalies and didn't want to know, and that Republicans were far too sure about what they think happened based

... (read more)
1deepthoughtlife
I'm a centrist (and also agnostic in regards to religion religion) in part because I believe there are a lot of things I/we don't/can't know and shouldn't be overconfident in, ideologically, factually, and interpretationally. I don't know what Trump actually thinks, and neither do you, but we seem to disagree strongly on it anyway. I don't want to try to read your mind, but that part is at least very obvious. (I do have some very confident ideological, factual, and interpretational beliefs, but believe they shouldn't be overly relied upon in these matters.) I also tend to keep in mind that I can be wrong (I am also keeping that in mind here), which is how I ended up believing Trump was worth voting for in the first place. (As stated originally, I actually had an extreme personal distaste for him for decades that sounds much like how people accusing him of being, but I paid attention and changed my mind later. Obviously, I could have been right originally and be wrong now, that definitely happens.) To me, you seem overconfident about what happened in the election, and your sources seem highly partisan (not that I know of any sources on this matter that I think aren't partisan). Neither of which actually mean you are wrong. I do think it is very important that there is genuine doubt, because then you can't simply assume those on the other side are operating in an objectionable way because they are opposing you. (Of course I would think you overconfident since I am hedging so much of what I am saying here.) I generally find it hard to know how accurate specific political reporting is, but it seems generally very low. Politics bring out the worst in a lot of people, and heightened reactions in most of us (me included, though I try to damp it down). There is always vote fraud and cheating, but what is the definition of 'large scale' such that you know for sure it didn't happen? States have in fact found cheating in small but significant amounts (as well as large scale
Pazzaz30

You say "send it back to the states" but what would that mean? Every state held their own election. No state found any proof of fraud (at least not enough to impact the outcome). So they all verified the results. Then they sent their electors to Washington. For Trump to then say "the states should decide" doesn't make much sense, because they already did decide. They decided he lost. Now maybe he meant that every state should have a reelection, but that would go against a bunch of (federal and state) laws, rules and the constitution, so that would be bad. ... (read more)

1deepthoughtlife
I did have to research a few things for this, but they don't seem to change matters at first glance. The situation is murky, but it was always murky and both sides clearly are certain they are right. I personally don't know whether or not it was a fair election with a fair result and unimportant anomalies, or if the anomalies really were cheating. They certainly looked suspicious enough in some cases that they should have been investigated. I think that many of the actions by the Democrats were done in the way they were because they didn't know whether or not there was rampant cheating causing these anomalies and didn't want to know, and that Republicans were far too sure about what they think happened based off weird and unclear evidence. You could argue for the contingent elections thing being relevant (and it is a scenario in the memos you mentioned), but it is far from settled when that would trigger in a sequence of events. It would not, in fact, be a change of procedure if it did. (As your link notes, it is in the constitution.) Uncommon parts of a procedure are still parts of it (though all the examples are so far back it would be quite strange to see it used, I agree on that). Several recent presidential candidates have used legal tactics to dispute how elections are done and counted. There are already multiple this year (mostly about who is and is not on the ballot so far.) There is nothing inherently wrong with that since that is literally how the laws and constitutional matters are intended to be handled when there is a dispute with them. I'm obviously not a constitutional scholar, but I think the contingent election stuff wouldn't really have come up at that point, since it reads more like something you do based on the electors choosing in a way that doesn't lead to a majority, not over the process of electors selection being disputed. You could easily argue that the disputed electors might not count if that simply means electors were not fully sele
Pazzaz10

For those who prefer text form, Richard Hanania wrote a blog post about why he would vote for Trump: Hating Modern Conservatism While Voting Republican.

Basically, he believes that Trump is a threat to democracy (because he tried to steal the 2020 election) while Kamala is a threat to capitalism. And as a libertarian, he cares more about capitalism than democracy.

Pazzaz3-1

Redoing elections that aren't held would be required despite that not being in the constitution (because the electors must be selected), and you could make the argument that one where the result cannot be known would be the same. I assume (obviously mindreading is often faulty) that is what Trump would have been talking about if he was more of an analytical speaker rather than an emotive one.

Yes, redoing the election would probably be a good thing to do, if there was evidence of widespread fraud. But Trump doesn't see that as the only option. The full "... (read more)

2deepthoughtlife
I skimmed the transcript at the link you provided, and it seems like a standard political speech (in Trump's style). Obviously Trump thought that there was easily enough proof to know that he won, or at least clearly enough prove election invalid if more was required. He would expect to genuinely win any real redo of the election. And the whole scheme was to send it back to the states, who have the authority to choose the electors. His claim is that the states wanted that (which I don't know any evidence of, but this scheme only does anything if the states actually do want to). The quote you provided literally sounds like normal political posturing about how important the people on your side are, and a claim that they should take political actions. This seems like a thing to say in regards to protests, rallies, or even just doing things like voicing support for him. I've heard countless politicians say this sort of thing before? It seems pretty anodyne? Saying that they should cheer for the legislature but not all of the legislature will be getting many cheers seems like an obvious joke with no deeper meaning than disapproval of some members. It's obvious what behaviors will get cheers and which won't, but it isn't threatening. All talk of fighting involved metaphorical fighting by duly elected representatives (and replacing them through primary elections if they didn't) and the people cheering them on. This is normal politics. And as far as it goes, he is literally saying that they should demand the law be followed as the point of this.
Pazzaz*1-1

I think you are missing something. The lawsuits were fine, though maybe a little silly as most of them were thrown out because of lack of standing. I'm thinking more of the "fake elector plot", where Trump pressured Mike Pence to certify fake electors on Jan 6 (as Pence said: "choose between [Trump] and the constitution"). I think trying to execute that plan was wrong, because if they would have succeeded then Trump would have stolen the election.

And Trump may not have supported everything the J6 rioters did, but he was the reason that they were there. He ... (read more)

4deepthoughtlife
Obviously I won't prove anything in this statement, but I just don't think there is a genuine case to be made that the common interpretation Trump's foes like to use is valid. I completely disagree about the idea that Trump supported any sort of coup, and that the riot was anything more than a riot. I agree that the statement linked from Trump sounds bad, but the interpretation seems like a misreading of Trump to me. It sounds like vociferously complaining that we don't know the outcome of the election due to fraud in his trademark sloppy style, and that he believes he would win if counted fairly. (Could it mean what you think it means? Perhaps, but that isn't the most likely reading to me.) Redoing elections that aren't held would be required despite that not being in the constitution (because the electors must be selected), and you could make the argument that one where the result cannot be known would be the same. I assume (obviously mindreading is often faulty) that is what Trump would have been talking about if he was more of an analytical speaker rather than an emotive one. Article II, Section 1, Clause 2: Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector. That is what the relevant part in the constitution for selecting electors (aside from a later clause about Congress setting the time of selection), so as far as selecting electors go, the state legislatures are in charge of that and asking them to intervene doesn't seem like going out of bounds. Depending on the actual laws and constitution of the state, there may not be anything the legislature is allowed to do either, but it doesn't seem like something the is obviously out of bounds. (I do not want this sort
Pazzaz-10

People often say one of the reasons they won't vote for Trump is his attempts to overturn the results of the 2020 election. What is your view on that?

3deepthoughtlife
I don't think people believe that asking the legal system to rule on whether the laws were properly followed is somehow disqualifying, so unless I am mistaken about what they are claiming, it didn't happen in any meaningful way. The media has intentionally misrepresented this. He believed there was cheating from the other side, and said so. He used the normal methods to complain about that, and the normal lawsuits about it to get the court to rule on the matter. It's all very normal. When the courts decided to not consider the matter (which was itself improper since they generally did that without considering the actual merits of the cases, generally claiming that it was somehow moot because the election was already over) he did nothing and just let his opponent become president (while continuing to vociferously complain). Both Al Gore and Hilary Clinton made roughly the same level of complaining about the result as Trump. (Since I think both of them are terrible, that is a negative comparison, and I dislike that Trump matched them, but it isn't disqualifying.) You could actually argue it was his job to make these lawsuits (to see that the federal election was properly executed). Coming up with who the electors would be if the lawsuit changed the results is normal (and not at all new). There was no attempt to go outside the legal system. In all likelihood there was a nonzero amount of cheating (but we don't actually know if it was favoring Biden, Republicans can cheat too) but I doubt there was any major conspiracy of it. I expect there is always some cheating by both sides, and we should try to reduce it, though I have no opinion on exactly how much or little there is. There were enough anomalies that investigating it would have made sense, if only to prevent them in the future. The J6 riots were just normal riots, on a small scale, that Trump didn't support at all and were nothing approaching a coup at all. Congress was not in any real danger, and there were n
Pazzaz10

Trump has certainly contributed to the amount of distrust the latter are now feeling, of course. Though I'm personally struggling to say whether this was due to his positioning alone, or (at least in part) thanks to an increasingly larger portions of the "machine" actively weaponizing more and more of its metaphorical antibodies against the threat of his highly unwarranted "invasion".

I think one thing you're missing is the huge right-wing media ecosystem, the part of the "machine" that supports Trump, even spreading lies to support him. Take for example... (read more)

Pazzaz10

The "Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986" was passed by Ronald Reagan, a Republican, so probably not an attempt by democrats to get votes.

I believe the most likely interpretation of the events is that Trump was not actually trying to steal the elections but to make most Republicans believe that the victory was stolen from him so that he could have another chance in 2024.

Where are you getting this interpretation? He is not saying this, no one around him is saying this. He says that the 2020 election was rigged. He says that it was so rigged that ... (read more)

Pazzaz10

Thanks for answering but I don't get it. I think trying to steal an election is really bad. Is it just that Trump didn't succeed that makes the difference?

And I don't really know what you refer to when you say "Democrat's use of illegal immigration to boost their vote". I know illegal (and legal) immigrants tend to lean democrat, but illegal immigrants can't vote. Is there some study looking at demographic patterns or so? What are the immigration policies of democrats that you think is wrong, and do you have a problem with legal immigration, as that helps ... (read more)

2contrarian
Pazzaz10

The bill was a bipartisan bill though. As described by republican James Lankford:

It is interesting: Republicans, four months ago, would not give funding for Ukraine, for Israel and for our southern border because we demanded changes in policy, [..] And now, it’s interesting, a few months later, when we’re finally getting to the end, they’re like, 'Oh, just kidding, I actually don’t want a change in law because it’s a presidential election year.'

It's effect would have been to improve the border. That's why there were republicans who wanted it passed, be... (read more)

Pazzaz15

So the problem is just that it wouldn't help him win? So if threatening Pence with a gun would have made him president, and the supreme court said that he was immune from criminal prosecution, it wouldn't affect if you'd vote for him again? (Ignoring that it would be his third term.)

Pazzaz-30

This comment is just confusing me even more. If you found out that Trump threatened Mike Pence with a gun to try to force him to count Trump's electors, would that be bad? You would prefer if Trump won, so that sounds like a good thing for him to do, right? But maybe you think it's bad for presidents to threaten people with guns, so you think it's bad. Can you answer what you think about this hypothetical?

7Shankar Sivarajan
They do this indirectly all the time. This is the basis of all laws of the federal government. Yes, I think it's bad, but I don't think it'd be fundamentally any worse for Trump to point a gun at Pence than for, say, an FBI agent (acting under the aegis of the Executive Branch, i.e., the President) to point a gun at a drug dealer. But I agree it'd have been a stupid thing to do for many reasons: the threat wouldn't be credible, he'd get removed from office even if it works, people he needs to govern would turn on him, voters will switch to supporting Democrats, … that's not winning. Edit: This is also the basis of my criticism of the rabble-rousing on January 6. It's primarily a matter of aesthetics.
Pazzaz10

So someone who doesn't agree with democrats hasn't thought through what they think? That doesn't sound right. I already said I disagree with the policy and how it's implemented. I just think there are other things which are a lot more important.

And I don't think choosing (2) is that weird, I just think it matters a lot what the process is to "filter out" people. Trump has said that he wants to make every executive branch employee fireable by the president. That gives a lot of power to the president, which I think is bad. I think it's good if the government... (read more)

2contrarian
Fair enough. My own opinion is that, beyond hurting freedom of speech, hiring researchers based on their race, sexual orientation, and ideological compliance is doing massive damage to scientific progress and undermines the ability of research institutions to provide objective information on matters of public policy (COVID-19, AGW, etc.). However, people can indeed have different opinions on the importance of these issues.  I responded to your other questions in two separate comments.
Pazzaz*-30

I don't know why you are bringing up the 1876 election, when that was before the Electoral Count Act, which sets the procedure for electoral votes that was used in 2020.

I'm still a little confused.

  1. Do you think it would be fine if 2016 electors changed their votes so that Trump lost?
    1. Does it depend on if it was legal?
  2. Do you think it would be fine if Trump would have succeeded with his plans in 2020?
    1. Does it depend on if it was legal?
-3Shankar Sivarajan
Arguing matters of law regarding transfers of power in the highest echelons of government is … misguided. It's like arguing with Reddit mods about what their rules say when they ban you. Or more classically, paraphrasing Pompey (via Plutarch), "Stop quoting laws at us. We have the swords." What the laws/rules literally say doesn't mean anything; how they're enforced is all that matters [1]. (I suppose if one were religious, one could consider the letter of the the Law sacred in some way, not to be profaned regardless of consequence or enforcement, but I am not.)  If you win, there are many ways it can be made legal.  For example, the Supreme Court rules on what the law says, they say the Constitution overrides all federal laws, and the Constitution says the President has the "Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons," so he pardons himself and everyone involved [2]. The strategy Trump tried (or one very similar) worked in 1876. I consider that extremely relevant, though as I said earlier, the plan was unlikely to work in 2020. The Electoral Count Act passed in the interim mattered insofar as its threat was sufficient to dissuade Mike Pence (and probably several state governors) from coöperating, so I guess it did its job.   I don't know what you mean by "fine." I would have preferred Trump win. Some reasons for which I listed on my top-level comment. I'm not sure precisely what you mean by "legal," (according to whom?) but no, not in the slightest. 1. ^ Is it even worth listing examples of times politically powerful members of the ruling class flouted laws they would have enforced harshly against commoners? Just look at the many instances during the "covid" lockdowns, for a start.  2. ^ You could say their actions would still be illegal even if the law can't be enforced against them, but I consider that a distinction without a difference.
Pazzaz-40

The problem is that these questions depend a lot on the details. I don't know much about the impact of DEI statements or how they are used. I mean, the Biden/Harris administration doesn't have a policy which is "anti-DEI scientists should be fired" or even "NSF grants should require DEI statements". The NSF just has the mission "to promote the progress of science, to advance the national health, prosperity, and welfare, and to secure the national defense". That's really vague, and now the Biden/Harris administration has passed some vague executive orders. ... (read more)

1contrarian
Choosing (2) makes you an extreme outlier among Democrats, so to be honest, it’s a little hard to believe that you thought it through very well.  In your opinion, why is it so bad to replace progressive civil servants with conservatives (“our people”), but doing the same for college professors is not?
5Shankar Sivarajan
I reject the premises of this blatantly loaded question. The strategy Trump attempted to win the election using alternative electors to keep Biden from getting a majority so that Congress would decide the Presidency, reprising the similar (successful) strategy employed by Hayes in 1876, was unlikely to succeed from the outset, and poorly executed to boot. So yeah, I think it was "bad" in that sense, but probably not what you mean. Do I think it was an insurrection or a putsch, or a threat to "our democracy," or anything like that? No, no more than this appeal to electors in 2016 to change their votes was a foiled plot to overthrow the government. 
Pazzaz10

It would probably be more constructive if we focus on one issue at a time, so I suggest we finish this topic before discussing others.

Okay.

I see all of these decision of deciding what to fund and how to fund them as political. I mean, during the last century a lot of marine research was done through the military, and that shaped what kind of research was done, and which people could do it (probably not anti-war people). I see all of these things as changing government priorities and not restrictions on freedom of speech or conscience.

On the topic of DEI... (read more)

2contrarian
Can you clarify your answer a little? Do you consider this policy to be not that big of a deal because 1. it only forces anti-DEI scientists out of the academy, or  2. the specific ideological filter does not matter and forcing out all pro-choice and pro-DEI scientists would not be that big of a deal either.
Pazzaz-21

Sorry for writing two comments, but I'm really curious of some ground beliefs, because it feels a little silly to talk about specific policy proposals without mentioning the - in my mind - biggest reason not to vote for Trump: he tried to steal the last election.

More specifically, he said after the election that the election was rigged against him. He had a bunch of court cases which sought to prove that the election was rigged against him, and pretty much every case was proven false. Then when his vice president were to certify electors from the state, Tr... (read more)

3contrarian
I strongly disapprove of Trump’s post-election antics, but I believe them to be less important than the Democrat's use of illegal immigration to boost their vote. If the US had no illegal immigration from Latin America, the Democrats would have lost about a fifth of their current voters, and, unless they radically changed their platform, would have lost all Congress and Presidential elections in the past twenty years.
Pazzaz-21

Well the reason I didn't think of DEI statements and such is because that's not really something Trump talks about much, right? He mostly talks about immigration (cats and dogs!), Ukraine, inflation, etc. So I don't know much about it.

Also, I don't really see DEI statements as a restriction on "freedom of speech" or "freedom of conscience". If I understand correctly, it's that grants by NSF to institutions have to have a section explaining their DEI initiatives. And sure you can disagree if that should be a factor, and maybe you think it's stupid to have a... (read more)

2Shankar Sivarajan
Why does your argument about how the government is free to allocate funding however it wishes in the context of  NSF grants not apply to civil servant salaries? About personal loyalty to Trump over the Constitution[1] or whatever, 1. ^ This dovetails nicely with your other argument, about him "trying to steal the last election."
1contrarian
* If I understand correctly, it's that grants by NSF to institutions have to have a section explaining their DEI initiatives.  Grants to individual researchers now also require the DEI statement. I think the AI is not a very good analogy because: * it's apolitical * I assume that in your example historians and cancer researchers would not lose their jobs for saying heretical things in their AI statements. A more appropriate analogy would be abortion. Suppose the progressive admins in the NSF are replaced with Christian conservatives who replace the DEI statement with the statement on the “sanctity of life”. To get grants, all researchers must demonstrate how their work is relevant to the fight against the murder of unborn children. Those who refuse or argue in favor of pro-choice policies do not get funding and, after a few years, are forced to quit academic institutions. Would you consider this policy a restriction on the freedom of speech and conscience or just a shift in government priorities? It would probably be more constructive if we focus on one issue at a time, so I suggest we finish this topic before discussing others.
Pazzaz20

I agree empirical observations are generally more reliable than theoretical argument.

  • But higher tariffs does in general increase inflation right? And he didn't influence the Fed that much during his administration, but if he did then it would make the economy worse, right? And it wasn't higher during the Biden/Kamala administration because of price-controls, right?
  • Yes, I agree that it was lower. But when voting you don't vote for outcomes, you vote for people who have policies which affect outcomes. When politicians tried to improve the border, Trump to
... (read more)
4contrarian
It seems that you are trying to prove to me that Trump’s policies, such as tariffs, would also have downsides.  This is obviously true.  > To me it feels like you're turning a blind eye to the huge problems with a Trump/Vance administration. I must admit that after you mentioned that you don't know any restrictions that the Biden administration has done to freedom of speech I felt the same way. However, personal feelings are subjective, and, most likely, we are both biased on this issue. Can you think of a good rational argument that Trump’s call to imprison flag burners is a greater threat to freedom of speech than the currently existing restrictions in academic institutions?
Pazzaz72

Technical feedback on the website:

  • Scrolling changes the URL. This is bad because then the browser history gets filled with the website multiple times, and trying to return to the previous page is very cumbersome.
  • If someone's image doesn't load, then it's blank and you can't see that there's someone there. There should be some default picture. You're not hosting the image, so it could be unable to load if the host moves or removes the image, or if the user uses some kind of tracking protection (e.g. Firefox blocks many Twitter images).
Pazzaz41

I can argue some:

  • Economy Well that obviously depends on what you mean with "price controls". None of the candidates give that much details on their economic policies, but Harris has mostly focused on anti-price gouging legislation. Now maybe you disagree with this legislation, but you have to compare it to Trumps economic policies: he wants to increase tariffs drastically, which would increase inflation. He also wants the Fed to be less independent, which could cause them to prioritize short term politics, which would be bad for the long term economy.
  • Im
... (read more)
4contrarian
You are correct that major legal changes in the immigration process generally require bipartisan support. However, controlling the executive branch is already sufficient to sabotage the implementation of the existing laws. In 1986 the US passed a bipartisan compromise bill that naturalized illegal immigrants residing in the US in return for measures that were supposed to prevent further illegal immigration. However, subsequent Democratic administrations largely refused to enforce them allowing illegal immigration to grow.  There is no obvious reason to think that the recent bill proposed by Democrats would have been any different. Given that it was proposed during the election year, its only effect would have been to allow Democrats to pretend that the issue has been resolved and remove it as a discussion topic during the election campaign.
9contrarian
Empirical observations are usually more reliable than theoretical arguments. * Trump already passed a large number of tariffs during his first term and the inflation remained significantly lower than under Biden/Harris administration. * Illegal immigration was far lower under Trump than under Biden/Harris administration. * Here is one example: In recent years, NSF made submitting DEI statements a precondition to obtaining scientific grants. Any STEM researcher who thinks that, for example, discriminating against talented Asian students based on their race is immoral, is now required to publicly lie about their beliefs or be denied research funds. Since getting grants is generally a prerequisite to getting tenure, this also means that politically non-compliant people are now barred from starting a career in the academy. 
Pazzaz60

Yeah maybe. I tried to write what I think is true, but from the perspective of someone with different values. If I included things I didn't think were true then that feels like I'm mocking Trump supporters and I don't want to do that. For example: "The democrats are letting in immigrants who are eating cats and dogs, people's pets. Trump would stop this". Obviously it's a belief held by MAGAs, and if it was true then it's a good argument to vote for Trump. But I don't think it's true, and therefore it's a very bad argument.

7gb
I highly doubt anywhere near the majority of Trump supporters (or even Trump himself) give any credence to the literal truth of those claims. It’s much more likely that they simply don’t care whether it’s literally true or not, because they feel that the “underlying” is true or something of the kind. When it comes to hearsay, people are much more forgiving of literal falsehoods, especially when they acknowledge there is a kind of “metatruth” to it. To give an easy analogue, of all the criticism I’ve heard of Christianity, not once have I heard anyone complain that the parables told by Jesus weren’t literally true, for example. (I do believe my account here passes the IIT for both groups, btw.)
4Alexander Gietelink Oldenziel
This is a pretty good example of the dangers of steel-manning I think. The disagreement, on the face of it, seems to revolve around both values and truth claims.   It seems there is a pretty substantial disagreement between you and MAGA republicans on which of the two parties are most subverting due process and democracy.  [ see the rethoric around 'the swamp', 'deep state' , 'lawfare'  and the Trump assasination attempts etc] I would guess that this is plausibly the largest crux between you and MAGA republicans. I would be skeptical you can have a real dialogue with a MAGA republican if you deny this part of the disagreement.  
Pazzaz10

Here's a steelman:

  • Abortion If you believe abortion is immoral, then Trump's greatest accomplishment during his last term was to appoint conservative supreme court judges which gave the ability to ban abortion to the states. This lead to several states placing heavy restrictions on abortions. If Trump wins again, abortion might even be restricted nationally, as Trump has declined to say whether he'll veto such a bill.
  • Immigration The US has seen an increase in illegal immigration during Biden's presidential term. There are many factors that influenced thi
... (read more)
6Alexander Gietelink Oldenziel
"Winning The democratic party cares about laws and democratic norms. Trump cares about winning." I doubt that you passed the IIT. I presume MAGA republicans would say that they're the ones that care about Freedom and Democracy while the democrats are the two-faced cronies of the Deep State.
Pazzaz10

Well, all of the questions are binary so they either happen or don't happen. They may not be sampled from some "objective" distribution, but you can still assign subjective probabilities to them. Just write how likely you think they are to happen.

1red75prime
What if all I can assign is a probability distribution of probabilities? Like in extraterrestrial life question. All that can be said is that extraterrestrial life is sufficiently rare to not find evidence of it yet. Our observation of our existence is conditioned on our existence, so it doesn't provide much evidence one way or another. Should I sample the distribution to give an answer, or maybe take mode, or mean, or median? I've chosen a value that is far from both extremes, but I might have done something else with no clear justification for any of the choices.
Pazzaz10

The Discord link seems to have expired.

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3Johnny Lin
Sorry - New Discord link (changed to a "Community Server") https://discord.gg/kpEJWgvdAx 
Pazzaz120

Swedish perspective: It's pretty funny seeing these biscuits praised as some kind of perfect recipe/secret treasure when it's one of the most common biscuits here. And when I say common I don't mean that they can be found in stores or cafés (though they sometimes can) but that it's something many people make at home. I think the reason that they aren't more common in stores is that they taste much better when they are warm; from the oven. The stores can't compete with that.

The recipe I'm used to is pretty similar to yours (from the famous Our Cookbook) but without the ginger or salt.

Pazzaz100

So instead of a disclaimer saying that a tweet is false, we'll now have a market saying that it probably will be declared false in the future. Then later the tweet will be declared 100% false and the market would close. But I don't see why you would trust the final result any more than the disclaimer. If you don't trust the social media companies then the prediction market just becomes "what people think social media companies will think" which doesn't solve the problem.

Edit: I missed that future users would vote to decide what the true outcome was but my ... (read more)

6Viliam
Just thinking... what if users were allowed to say "I predict that the company will say it is X, but in my opinion it is actually Y"? Then the system could select the users who predicted correctly, and display their real opinion. Unfortunately, this probably wouldn't work, because there would be no selection against "predicts correctly, expresses edgy opinion". Also, it is unlikely that media companies would support this kind of mechanism.