All of Rune's Comments + Replies

Rune20

Have you already written about the recent concerns with the Oxford vaccine causing Cerebral Sinovenous Thrombosis (CSVT)? I don't mean just any old blood clots, but these specific blood clots that happen in the brain that are super rare and often lethal? 

Much of the earlier blood clot discussion was unfortunately confused with regular blood clots, like deep vein thrombosis (DVT), which is not as big a deal, and neither is there good evidence that the Oxford Vaccine increases its occurrence. But CVST seems both serious and potentially a bigger side eff... (read more)

Rune10

Thanks. I'm just trying to understand what people's reasons are. My portfolio is also US-weighted more than market caps would dictate.

Rune40

This discussion is mostly irrelevant in practice, since the two funds track each other extremely well. 

Even if it's true that the S&P500 has beaten the overall market in the past, I doubt it's statistically significant. Theoretically I can't imagine a good reason why the optimal investment answer would be "pick roughly the top 500 companies, but not exactly those, but something like that picked by a committee of people you don't know, in proportion to their market cap." VTSAX just seems simpler as it tries to approximate "pick every company in pro... (read more)

1emanuele ascani
I didn't know this, now it makes much more sense, thank you.
Rune20

I'm not a fan of this argument because even if you have some global coverage, why not get more and reap the benefits of diversification? It's like saying hey I already own 2 car company stocks, there's no point in owning all US car company stocks. Sure the stocks might move in tandem most of the time, but diversification allows you to reduce risk.

1Srdjan Miletic
Hmmm. So I don't think more global exposure = more diversified. What you should be aiming for is investing in each country/region in proportion to it's share of the market. Consider the following situation * The USA is 30% of global markets * A global index fund invests in world equities, putting 30% of it's money in the US market * The US market is actually also 50% invested abroad * Hence the index fund is really only putting 15% (30/2) in the US and is underweighted towards the US
Rune10

That's an interesting argument I hadn't heard before. It makes sense, although I think this argument can at best be used to rule out stocks of developing nations. That still leaves developed nations. So one might then diversify their stock holdings by adding some, say, Vanguard FTSE Developed Markets ETF (VEA) in addition to their VTSAX/VTI.

Rune70

I can't say much about other markets, but I do believe in the EMH is a reasonable approximation for the US stock market. The "obvious" rationalist investments into Tesla and AMD are an after-the-fact story to make it sound like that was the right thing to do back then. I'm sure one con construct an equally persuasive story for any other community of people. The pizza lover community will say you should have obviously invested in Dominos, and their stock has grown 25x in the past 10 years. Car enthusiasts will pick Tesla, etc. 

Additionally, one predict... (read more)

1Matthew Barnett
I'm also unconvinced by this evidence. As other comments here noted, the rise of AMD and GPU stocks has very little to do with deep learning. What would make me more persuaded is if the author made specific public predictions about stock prices, with justification, and then analyzed it later.  In other words, I want to see what tech stock picks deluks917 currently thinks are undervalued. Then we'll see if they're right in a few years.
Rune10

Yes, you're right. I'll weaken the claim to 1.1x SPY will beat SPY in expected return historically and in almost all reasonable contexts. Certainly often enough to invalidate the incorrect EMH stated above.

My statement was motivated by the single time period investment model, as is considered in the standard mean-variance diagram of modern portfolio theory. On that diagram, as long as the risk free rate is below the market portfolio, you can draw a straight line between them and once you go beyond the market portfolio, you'll always have higher expected return all the way to infinity. But a single time period is not the best way to model long-term investing.

Rune210

By the EMH I mean this practical form: People cannot systematically outperform simple strategies like holding VTSAX. Certainly, you cannot expect to have a higher expected value than max(VTSAX, SPY). Opportunities to make money by active investing are either very rare, low volume, or require large amounts of work. Therefore people who are not investing professionally should just buy broad-based index funds. 

 

This isn't the right way to formulate an EMH. You can trivially get higher expected return than any investment by simply leveraging that inv... (read more)

5gilch
Maybe not what you meant, but this wording is too strong. If you leverage high enough to exceed the Kelly bet size by 2x or more, then your long-run portfolio value will be zero.
Rune30

Is there a reason you only invest in the US stock market and not the whole world (VTWAX)? Or is VTSAX good enough and it's not worth the effort to decide whether you should globally diversify and in what proportion?

4gwern
I knew someone was going to ask that. Yes, it's impure indexing, it's true. The reason is the returns to date on the whole-world indexes have been lower, the expense is a bit higher, and after thinking about it, I decided that I do have a small opinion about the US overperforming (mostly due to tech/AI and a general sense that people persistently underestimate the US economically) and feel pessimistic about the rest of the world. Check back in 20 years to see how that decision worked out...
2bluefalcon
EMH requires liquid markets where you can't cheat. Buying non-US stocks may be putting you on the wrong side of an inefficient market. 
2Srdjan Miletic
One argument is that the US stock market already contains a lot of global exposure as many/most large US firms are internationally diversified themselves. Buying global funds means you're actually under-investing in the USA relative to the world as 40% of your "US companies" are actually global companies. I don't vouch for this argument, it's just something I've heard which sounds somewhat plausible.
Rune10

That's quite interesting! What was the stock/bond allocation in your examples that gave you a SWR of 4.3%?

2Randomized, Controlled
100% in US stocks gives a SWR of 4.3%; 
Rune70

I'm a big fan of NTSX and have done a bunch of back tests to see how it would have performed in various conditions. In all reasonably long time periods that I simulated, something like NTSX had lower volatility and higher return compared to SPY. About a year ago I went ahead and replaced most of my US equity exposure with NTSX.

Rune40

3.5% might be safer, although I should have emphasized that I'm skeptical because the link you gave assumes you're invested in only US stocks. This is hindsight bias because it so happened that the US market beat the world market in the last 50+ years. A more unbiased calculation would use a world market index (something like VTWAX instead of VTSAX). 

And also maybe one should do the analysis without assuming that your home currency is US dollars, to avoid the bias that the US has been very prosperous in the past century? Not so sure about this. Maybe everyone should redo the analysis using their own home currency (e.g., Canadian dollars, Euros, etc.) and then decide what X% they can safely withdraw in retirement.

1tryactions
Great point; I agree.  Also a great example of missing an obvious risk; I hadn't noticed that before linking. The calculator here allows simulating withdrawal rates by asset allocation, although it only has data back to 1970 so is a bit limited.  I get the same safe withdrawal rate (4.3%) for 30 year retirees using either 100% US or 50/50 US/ex-US over that time frame.  100% Japan had a 1.5% safe withdrawal rate.
Rune40

The fear is not that the stock market goes to zero, just that it rises slowly enough that withdrawing 4% leads you to deplete your portfolio before you're dead. Ending up in the horrible situation that you have no money and are still alive. Even proponents of the 4% rule will say the simulations only show that you don't run out of money (say) 90% of the time. There's a decent 10% chance that you will run out of money. The original 4% calculation was done during a great time in US market history, so I'm not sure how optimistic I am about that being the case... (read more)

2tryactions
Learning about the existence of state guaranty associations has decreased my sense of how big I think the counter-party risk is; thanks for sharing this. Re: running out of money, I've added a section on the risks of retiring too early to address this concern in more detail.  I now agree that annuities might be a good idea to address this if you are old enough, and I was probably overly worried about counter-party risk.   Re: the 4% rule, it is indeed more of a guideline than a guarantee.  More details are available here: https://thepoorswiss.com/updated-trinity-study/.  The link shows a 100% stock allocation with a 3.5% withdrawal rate has a historical 98% success rate over 50 year periods starting from 1871 -- if you are never going to generate income again and are never going to increase real expenses, you may be able to buy quite a bit of safety by going to 30x instead of 25x and holding a 100% stock portfolio.
Rune20

This is a good guide. Thanks for writing it! 

I wanted to comment on one important aspect that people sometimes feel uncomfortable about. That's the assumption that you need to save roughly 25x your annual expenses to survive on the proceeds. Or in other words, you can approximately support a 4% spend every year from your savings. People are often uncomfortable with this rule of thumb since there's so much uncertainty built into it about how the market will do. But it's possible to completely do away with this uncertainty at a traditional retirement ag... (read more)

1tryactions
I would worry about the counter-party risk with annuities; if a single company goes out of business, you might be bust.  Even if you distribute across many companies, I'd think it's more likely that the whole sector goes bust than that your portfolio devalues to 0 in some other way. For that reason I'd lean toward not putting too much of my assets in annuities -- but maybe it works out so that the counter-party risk is smaller than the risk of running out of money otherwise.
Answer by Rune20

I get the impression that much of the official advice of the past was actively harmful; the official advice has flip-flopped on many things over the past decades; things which were touted as healthy were later shown to be unhealthy, and vice versa. So presumably some of the current official advice is also actively harmful, and some of it is merely useless. But I don't know which.

This is not, in itself, a reason to stop trusting official advice on nutrition. On the science hierarchy of how certain we are of our understanding, nutrition science is very low a... (read more)

Rune30

Besides donating money to SENS, is there any way for people with money to help speed up this research? Specifically, are there companies that one can invest in to help this research? Say if you're in charge of a lot of investment money (maybe you're a fund manager or ethical investment advisor or something) and want to make investments that make the world a better place. Anti-aging sounds like it would be a great place to invest some of the financial capital available. How would one do that? 

1Florin
Aging Biotech Info https://agingbiotech.info LongevityList (companies search) https://longevitylist.com/explore/?type=company&sort=latest
6JackH
Copied from the response to another, similar, comment: There are a number of publicly-traded longevity biotechnology companies. You could invest in Unity Biotechnology (NASDAQ:UBX) or Proteostasis Therapeutics (NASDAQ:PTI), for example.  I also recommend the Longevity Market Cap newsletter.   Here are some links that may be useful: https://investoraccess.masterinvestor.co.uk/events/investing-in-the-age-of-longevity/ https://transhumanplus.com/investments-on-antiaging/ https://investingnews.com/daily/life-science-investing/longevity-investing/longevity-research-companies/ https://www.nanalyze.com/2019/08/top-10-companies-longevity/
Answer by Rune10

I don't know the full answer to why stocks go up, but I have a partial answer based on risk. Imagine there are only 2 products available in the market:

(1) A US government bond that pays $100 in 1 year.

(2) Ownership in a company that will dissolve in 1 year, and at the end either return to the owner $95 or $105 with equal probability. 

Note that both have the same expected return in 1 year, $100. But people will prefer to buy the first product compared to the  second one, since the first one is risk free. Say the current 1-year interest rate for ri... (read more)

Rune30

Your last example is actually weaker than it could be. Even though it's completely equivalent, a better way to phrase this is the following:

The train is currently rushing to kill the child, and you're not part of this situation. You, sitting in your car far away, see this happening. You now have the choice to drive up to the tracks and leave your car on the tracks. This will save the child but destroy your car.

Now it's clear that you weren't part of the situation to begin with; you're just a distant observer who may choose to intervene.

1JonahS
I don't follow why leaving your car on the tracks prevents the child from being killed.
Rune110

"If you invest your money now, you might be able to make something like 10% annually with some risk."

Speaking of this, does anyone know of any LW posts or other articles about how to make the most of idle capital with some risk? Ideally with the risk analyzed by a competent Bayesian.

"If you invest your money now, you might be able to make something like 10% annually with some risk."

10% is rather questionable as a long-term prediction: only the most successful equities markets in the world managed close to that in the last century, and many disappeared entirely. After corrections for inflation, survivorship, taxes, and so forth real returns are closer to world growth rates.

Speaking of this, does anyone know of any LW posts or other articles about how to make the most of idle capital with some risk?

The ultra-standard a... (read more)

4gwern
10% sounds high, even with the caveat of 'some risk'... how much risk does one have to eat currently to get 10%, exactly? No, or at least if there is, I haven't seen it. LW doesn't really specialize in finance; but there are so many finance blogs out there that I'd find it hard to believe none were useful, Bayesian, or both useful and Bayesian. (And there's the obvious issue that anyone who really is good enough to do such analyses probably has a finance day job and may not want to give you their analysis for free.)
Rune140

I once met a philosophy professor who was at the time thinking about the problem "Are electrons real?" I asked her what her findings had shown thus far, and she said she thinks they're not real. I then asked her to give me examples of things that are real. She said she doesn't know any examples of such things.

Rune20

LessWrongers maybe? Instead of LessWrongians?

juped110

Better than "rationalists".

I think the title would be stronger without any mention of LessWrong-readers at all; we can presume to be the intended audience by mere virtue of it being posted here.

Rune00

I don't mean to nitpick, but "ahteism" looks very weird when spelled that way.

1Raw_Power
I sincerely apologize: I wasn't writing from home, and the computer I was using had a sub-par keyboard and no spellchecker. I have corrected this as soon as I came home. In The Craft And The Community we reflect on how to unite as a functional lobby, but I think that, while this question is indeed more than worthwile, we need to reflect on what makes our viewpoints unappealing to other groups, especially theists. You can't argue against rationalism, against the efficient use of physical and intellectual resources, against sanity and intelligence... except when the logical extension of that mental hygiene demands that you do away with religion. This is when all the guns are pulled. This is when people have to say no: from a subjectively objective point of view, they have no other choice but to object. This undermines the entire rationalist project. Therefore we need to find a way to defuse that bomb that doesn't consist in making it blow up in our faces. And of course, we absolutely must not use the Dark Arts while dealing with religious people, because that would be tantamount to betraying everything that we stand for.
Rune10

Seconded. Terrible exposition; it trivializes something that is non-trivial. Also, it would be nice if the writer used paragraphs and did not use CAPS (unless really shouting).

Rune200

You're a rationalist if there's a portrait of you in an attic somewhere getting increasingly irrational everyday.

0bogdanb
I don’t get it.
Rune90

Rationalist pickup line: "If I asked you out, would your answer be the same as the answer to this question?"

"Indeed it would: fuck right off."

-9kpreid
Rune20

Say Omega appears to you in the middle of the street one day, and shows you a black box. Omega says there is a ball inside which is colored with a single color. You trust Omega.

He now asks you to guess the color of the ball. What should your probability distribution over colors be? He also asks for probability distributions over other things, like the weight of the ball, the size, etc. How does a Bayesian answer these questions?

Is this question easier to answer if it was your good friend X instead of Omega?

1FAWS
I don't know about "should", but my distribution would be something like red=0.24 blue=0.2 green=0.09 yellow=0.08 brown=0.04 orange=0.03 violet=0.02 white=0.08 black=0.08 grey=0.02 other=0.12 Omega knows everything about human psychology and phrases it's questions in a way designed to be understandable to humans, so I'm assigning pretty much the same probabilities as if a human was asking. If it was clear that white black and grey are considered colors their probability would be higher.
1Vladimir_Nesov
See http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/I_don%27t_know
5wedrifid
See also.
Rune00

I can't imagine anyone assigning the event probability 0.5 just because it's a Yes/No question. Does the probability drop to 1/3 if I added 1 more option to the question?

The person who assigns probability 1/k to all outcomes of any question with k options is NOT a Bayesian. That's someone who has misunderstood Bayes rule and should re-read all of Eliezer's posts.

Rune100

Why does the Bayesian say that the probability of there being life on Mars is 0.5?

1arundelo
I seem to remember seeing the idea that "all possibilities equally likely" is sort of a "default prior". In the case of life on Mars: Imagine getting all your information about life and Mars in little dribs and drabs, each one of which lets you update your probability of life on Mars. The place you start from (before you know stuff like what DNA is and whether Mars has an atmosphere) is 0.5.
3Kevin
"So roughly speaking, what are the chances the world is going to be destroyed? One in a million, one in a billion?" "Well, the best we can say is about a 1 in 2 chance." http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-april-30-2009/large-hadron-collider (video, region blocked)
-5rwallace
8Eliezer Yudkowsky
We don't. I'm not sure what's up with that, unless it was a deliberately bad example.
Rune100

I think the Methuselah Foundation's credit card idea might also be a good way to receive donations without people actively donating money. Probably also buys more warm fuzzies per dollar, since you can feel good every time you use your credit card.

2Wei Dai
Those confident in their willpower can get a credit card with 2% cash back rebate and just commit to donating the rebate. Methuselah Foundation's card only gives a 1% donation.
4MichaelHoward
I suspect that's not a good thing, not something an SIAI supporter deserves, and certainly not something that encourages rational decision-making which I'd prefer SIAI to encourage on general principle. Having said that, if they did it I'd probably get one.
0[anonymous]
I suspect that's a good thing, not something an SIAI supporter deserves, and certainly not something that encourages rational decision-making which I'd prefer SIAI to encourage on general principle. Having said that, if they did it I'd probably get one.
0[anonymous]
I suspect that's a good thing, not something an SIAI supporter deserves, and certainly not something that encourages rational decision-making which I'd prefer SIAI to encourage on general principle. Having said that, if you did it I'd probably get one.
0[anonymous]
I suspect that's a good thing, not something an SIAI supporter deserves, and certainly not something that encourages rational decision-making which I'd prefer SIAI to encourage on general principle.
0[anonymous]
I suspect that's not be a good thing, not something an SIAI supporter deserves, and certainly not something that encourages rational decision-making which I'd prefer SIAI to encourage on general principle.
Rune210

What is completely sad (besides this horrible murder case), is the inability of either website linked to present a coherent, rational argument. In fact, I haven't been able to find one website that reveals all facts and then explains them with their point of view in a rational (or even semi-rational) way.

I find this situation almost as depressing as the murder. I couldn't come to any conclusion based on the poor quality of reasoning used on most websites. Wikipedia, as usual, presents a decent collection of facts.

From the Wikipedia article I could only... (read more)

Rune230

Advice for future creators of tests: There are people who live outside the US. No one outside the US cares about the 3rd person to be the second dead uncle of the fourth president of the US.

For instance, a majority of tommccabe's quiz questions are highly US-specific.

The point here is that non-Americans will end up guessing almost all questions, making the whole exercise painful and useless.

2SoerenMind
The best calibration IMO exercises I was able to find (which also work for non-Americans) can be downloaded from the website of How to Measure Anything. http://www.howtomeasureanything.com/
1alyssavance
Noted, but I didn't write those questions, they were taken from the open-source MisterHouse project. If you know of any sources of free trivia questions that aren't US-specific please do PM me.
Rune00

Yes, lots of fun was had. Thanks to Michael Vassar and Eliezer Yudkowsky for making it a fun evening for all of us!

Rune00

I'll just add my "yes", even though I suggested the meetup.

Rune20

WeiDai, good work on reading through Scott's PostBQP=PP paper and explaining the BQP_p contained in NP result so clearly.

Rune00

Yeah, my interpretation was similar. It is far too specific to simply be used as an exhibit of sexist thinking.

Rune00

How is this an LW/OB quote?

0HughRistik
Oops, I thought this was the other thread. Moved.
0[anonymous]
Thanks for asking, rather than merely down-voting. Since this work is an obvious parody which does not believe that Google is God, the implicature is that religious reasoning fails to follow through with its own criteria for the existence of deities. This is rationalist commentary, similar to the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, which presents beliefs as plausible as major religions, based on the kind of reasoning they involve. Similarly, the Church of Google presents beliefs that are even more plausible than actual religious beliefs according to religion's very own criteria. Of course, we've all heard this all before. The rationality content of the Church of Google is run-of-the-mill pro-science, pro-rationality, religious skepticism. What made me quote it was how wittily it was presented. Here's some more: Does everyone get it now, and can I have my karma back? Did anyone get it one the first read?
Rune110

"There is a courage that goes beyond even an atheist sacrificing their life and their hope of immortality. It is the courage of a theist who goes against what they believe to be the Will of God, choosing eternal damnation and defying even morality in order to rescue a slave, or speak out against hell, or kill a murderer... You don't get a chance to reveal that virtue without making fundamental mistakes about how the universe works, so it is not something to which a rationalist should aspire. But it warms my heart that humans are capable of it."

-- Eliezer Yudkowsky

PhilGoetz140

From Huckleberry Finn:

So I was full of trouble, full as I could be; and didn't know what to do. At last I had an idea; and I says, I'll go and write the letter - and then see if I can pray. Why, it was astonishing, the way I felt as light as a feather right straight off, and my troubles all gone. So I got a piece of paper and a pencil, all glad and excited, and set down and wrote:

Miss Watson, your runaway nigger Jim is down here two mile below Pikesville, and Mr. Phelps has got him and he will give him up for the reward if you send. Huck Finn.

I felt good a... (read more)

0DanArmak
That's not defying (presumably their) morality, it's defying the local social code. And while I agree with the quote, it's not rationalist (as it admits), but a great humanist statement.
Rune50

"To worship a phenomenon because it seems so wonderfully mysterious, is to worship your own ignorance."

-- Eliezer Yudkowsky

Rune30

"Ignorance exists in the map, not in the territory. If I am ignorant about a phenomenon, that is a fact about my own state of mind, not a fact about the phenomenon itself."

-- Eliezer Yudkowsky

5Eliezer Yudkowsky
Got that one from Jaynes.
Rune-10

"If you don't see where this is going, then you haven't read Douglas Hofstadter's Gödel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid, which makes you incomplete as a human being."

-- Eliezer Yudkowsky

1MBlume
link
2RobinZ
I always disapprove of this sort of literary chauvinism as a matter of principle - GEB is a good book, but hardly necessary to the development of the human organism.
Rune70

"The strength of a theory is not what it allows, but what it prohibits; if you can invent an equally persuasive explanation for any outcome, you have zero knowledge."

-- Eliezer Yudkowsky

Rune-20

"If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity."

-- Deuteronomy 25:11-12 (New International Version)

8gwern
The point of a quote is usually obvious, but this one isn't. The original writers were simply laying down their sexist laws - but why are you quoting it?
Rune80

"If you’ve never missed a flight, you’re spending too much time in airports."

-- Umesh Vazirani (as quoted by Scott Aaronson)

1dclayh
Huh. Do you know the original source for that quote? Because I came across it (with no attribution given) in Steven Landsburg's book Fair Play, and while it's not so original a thought that it couldn't have been thought of independently, someone stealing seems more likely.
Rune250

"As an adolescent I aspired to lasting fame, I craved factual certainty, and I thirsted for a meaningful vision of human life - so I became a scientist. This is like becoming an archbishop so you can meet girls."

-- M. Cartmill

Rune110

"It’s hard to argue with a counter-example."

-- Roger Brockett

4soreff
A co-worker of mine regularly responds to counterexamples of software designs, examples which show where the design breaks, with "Show me an example from a real user case". :-(
Rune20

So every possible economic status increases the priors of being religious. Wait, that can't be right.

Increase the priors? Compared to what?

Rune110

Can you give a detailed numerical examples of some problem where the Bayesian and Frequentist give different answers, and you feel strongly that the Frequentist's answer is better somehow?

I think you've tried to do that, but I don't fully understand most of your examples. Perhaps if you used numbers and equations, that would help a lot of people understand your point. Maybe expand on your "And here's an ultra-short example of what frequentists can do" idea?

2cousin_it
Short answer: Bayesian answers don't give coverage guarantees. Long answer: see the comments to Cyan's post.
Rune60

Agreed. I would also conjecture that a very large fraction of Rationalists will not tell them to pull the trigger. Integrity and honor are not very useful when you're dead.

Moreover, the fact that one is an atheist is excellent when being forcefully converted to a different religion. There is no sky-Dawkins watching over atheists who will be angered by this conversion.

Rune00

Why? Regardless of his strategy, you do no worse by switching.

1Douglas_Knight
What if he only makes the offer to people whose initial choice of door was the car? I read somewhere that on the show itself, the odds were about 50-50. Here's an interview in which he doesn't quite say that.
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