All of Saladin's Comments + Replies

Can I ask a related question? Is there a physical model available that allows for immortality (eternally stable structure) in a cyclic model of the universe only (limited space with finite time between cycles)?

MWI and other parallel universe models seem to allow for suitable ways of replication and escape - but I never found anything related for a cyclic model. There is talk of surviving the Heat death (superconductor based computers) and Big Crunch/Big bang (using suitable black holes, etc..) - but there is one specific problem I haven't seen addressed: P... (read more)

If You force the outcome to be soly on Your decision alone and if Your decision is clear, free and consistent with a specific philosophy, then You must be judge acc. to this philosophy.

Which philosophy is valid in a Least Convenient Possible World?

If everything I do to "humanely" help the patients without commiting murder to the strange ris futile AND and if none of the patients would be willing to do a self-sacrifice to save the others AND if the sole and only decision to this situation would lie on me, then (my clearly idealized) I would teac... (read more)

0A1987dM
Well, I wouldn't accept. (Even because I'm quite young and I likely have more QALYs ahead of me than those patients combined; but then again, in the Least Convenient Possible World all of those patients are in their teens and, except for the organs they need, completely healthy...)
3pedanterrific
In the Least Convenient Possible World the stranger says "Hell no!" Now what?
  1. If alien means "not comprehensible" (not even through our best magination), then it's folly to talk about such a thing. If we cannot even imagine something to be realistically possible - then for all practical purposes (until objectively shown otherwise) it isnt. Or using modal logic - Possiblly possible = not realistically possible. Physically/logically possible = realistically possible. The later always has bigger weight and by Occam = higher possibility (higher chance to be correct/be closert to truth)

  2. If we imagine the designer is not acti

... (read more)
0APMason
By "alien" I really did just mean "different". There are comprehensible possible minds that are nothing like ours. I don't think this is true. Imagine Omega comes to you and says, "Look, I can cure death - nobody will ever die ever again, and the only price you have to pay for this is a) you can never have children, and b) your memory will be wiped, and you will be continuously misled, so that you still think people are dying. To you, the world won't look any different. Will you take this deal?" I don't think it would be acting randomly or irrationally to take that deal - big, big gain for relatively little cost, even though your (personal) survival and reproduction and (personal) max. p/p. aren't affected by it. Humans have complicated values - there are lots of things that motivate us. There's no reason to assume that the simulation-makers would be simpler.

Wouldn't it be rational to assume, that what/whoever designed the simulation, would do so for for the same reason that we know all inteligent life complies to: Survival/reproduction and maximizing its pleasure / minimizing pain?

A priori assumptions arent the best ones, but it seems to me that would be a valid starting point that leads to 2 conclusions:

a) the designer is drastically handicapped with its resources and our very limited simulation is the only one running (therefore the question - why is it exactly like it is - why this design at all if we're t... (read more)

3TruePath
Why assume whatever beings simulated us evolved? Now I'm sure you're going to say well a universe where intelligent beings just pop into existence fully formed is surely less simple than one where they evolve. However, when you give it some more thought that's not true and it's doubtful if Occam's razor even applies to initial conditions. I mean supposed for a moment the universe is perfectly deterministic (newtonian or no-collapse interp). In that case the Kolmogorov complexity of a world starting with a big bang that gives rise to intelligent creatures can't be much less and probably is much more than one with intelligent creatures simply popping into existence fully formed After all, I can always just augment the description of the big bang initial conditions with 'and then run the laws of physics for x years' when measuring the complexity.
1APMason
I see two problems with this: 1. Alien minds are alien, and 2. that really doesn't seem to exhaust the motives of intelligent life. It would seem to recommend wireheading to us.
3prase
And my problem is that questions like this are heavily downvoted. This isn't a bad question per se, even if it may be a little bit confused. As I understand, only a minority of people here are physicists, and quite a lot of people on LW haven't technical understanding of quantum theory. So the parent comment can't be perceived as ignorant of some already shared standard of rationality. Also, MWI is still not a broad scientific consensus today, even if some portray it such. So why does the parent stand at -5? Do we punish questioning the MWI? If so, why? Now on topic. MWI doesn't violate thermodynamics any more than the Copenhagen interpretation. In the CI one can have a superposition of states of different energy collapsing into one of the involved energies; the estimated (mean) energy of the state is not conserved through the measurement. The energy is conserved in two senses: first, it is conserved during the evolution of a closed system (without measurement), and second, it is conserved completely when using statistical mixed states to model the system - in this case, the collapse puts the system into a mixed state, and the mean value of any observable survives the collapse without change. Of course, the energy conservation requires time-independent dynamics (it means time-independence of the laws governing the system and all physical constants) in both cases. An important technical point is that measurements always transfer the energy to the apparatus and therefore there is little sense to demand conservation of energy of the measured system during a measurement. To model a realistic measurement, the apparatus has to be described by a non-self-adjoint Hamiltonian to effectively describe dissipation, or at least it has to have a time-dependent Hamiltonian, or both; else, the apparatus will not remember the results. In both cases, energy conservation is trivially broken. As for the (implicit) first question how the worlds are created: There is one Hilbert spac
0Perplexed
Why do you see a conflict? You seem to be assuming both that the total energy of the universe is positive (not known!), and that each universe has the same total energy (i.e. that energy is not arbitrarily scalable). Why not assume that a universe with 100 joules of energy splits into two universes - one with 100 zorkmids of energy and the other with 100 arkbarks of energy (where it is understood that 1 zorkmid + 1 arkbark = 1 joule).
0XiXiDu
Erm, I can tell you less about physics than the creationist museum about evolution but I don't think it applies to open systems. Anyway, for some interesting information about thermodynamics go here:
2PaulAlmond
These worlds aren't being "created out of nowhere" as people imagine it. They are only called worlds because they are regions of the wavefunction which don't interact with other regions. It is the same wavefunction, and it is just being "sliced more thinly". To an observer, able to look at this from outside, there would just be the wavefunction, with parts that have decohered from each other, and that is it. To put it another way, when a world "splits" into two worlds, it makes sense to think of it as meaning that the "stuff" (actually the wavefunction) making up that world is divided up and used to make two new, slightly different worlds. There is no new "stuff" being created. Both worlds actually co-exist in the same space even: It is only their decoherence from each other that prevents interaction. You said that your problem is "how they (the worlds) are created" but there isn't anything really anything new being created. Rather, parts of reality are ceasing interaction with each other and there is no mystery about why this should be the case: Decoherence causes it.
1LucasSloan
A better question - how does the observed 1st law of thermodynamics arise from the laws of physics underpinning the many worlds?

I thought that in closed quantum system there are only probabilities of a true indeterminisitc nature - and the only deterministic part is at the collapse of the wave function (where the positions, speed,... are truly determined - but impossible to measure correctly).

Still the fact remains that one universe is holding observers and even there is only one sollution to past eternity - that of a cyclic universe of the same kind and same parameters of the big bang - the futures of the universe would be determined by the acts of those observers. Different acts... (read more)

0wnoise
Mostly the opposite. In a closed quantum system, there are no probabilities, just the unitary, deterministic evolution of the wavefunction. On a measurement (which is a particular type of interaction with something outside the system), the collapse happens, and it is at this point that both probabilities and nondeterminism are both introduced. Whatever property is being observed sets an eigenbasis for the measurement. Each eigenspace is assigned a probability of being chosen proportional to the norm -- the sum of the square of the lengths. This probability is the probability that the wavefunction is replaced by the renormalized projection of that wavefunction into the chosen eigenspace. (This is the simplest version -- it only covers von Neumann measurements in the Schrodinger picture applied to pure states.)

I always say "physical/logical" to note the known laws of physics of our universe and the logic that describes it.

If you say only "physical" - then you limit yourselve only to that which is directly observable, testable and foreseeable. And that hinders a more relaxed approach of discussing such "far-out" possibilities as required in such cases.

Point being: IMO the only valid physical/logical speculations are those that relate to the physics and logic we know of (or a variation of it in an indeterministic universe),

Only Past ... (read more)

Doesn't quantum indeterminism (edit: quantum uncertanty) prevent that?

Any kind of quantum fluctuation, which "could" have had a makroscopic, relativistic effect must have had such an effect (f.e, in an early universe).

Either you except indeterminism or a nonlocal hidden variable - my guess is indeterminism is far more exceptable.

8prase
I would be far more careful using quantum physics in informal "philosophical" arguments. In most instances, people summon quantum effects to create a feeling of answered question, while in fact the answer is confused or, worse, not an asnwer at all. The general rule is: every philosophical argument using the word quantum is bogus. (Take with a grain of salt, of course.) More concretely, closed quantum systems (i.e. when no measurement is done) evolve deterministically, and their evolution can be periodic.

I'm quite sure i'm not ready for such a discussion. I don't have the education and the critical/analytic approach needed to state complex sets of axioms, to give formulaic approaches, to adapt physical theories etc. My sloppy english and writing in overly simplified terms doesn't help much either.

But I think I know the laymans basics of the main physical theories and I have a general idea where the main problems lie.

Ignoring the problems, loopholes, paradoxes,... while good for solving localized problems and questions, is not good practice and science, if ... (read more)

1WrongBot
"Physical" and "logical" are not the same thing. Even if all physical possibilities are instantiated (as Tegmark's Level IV Multiverse implies, I believe), there are logical systems that do not describe any part of reality.
7Emile
No, it isn't. Infinite time doesn't mean that everything physically possible happened. Maybe the same things kept happening over and over.
5cousin_it
As far as I know, the big bang hypothesis is in accord with known physics. Seconding ciphergoth's suggestion. It's very unlikely that you can make a positive contribution here until/unless you study more. We do have respected members who hold theistic beliefs, but their comments sound noticeably more rational than yours.

I'm afraid I don't think you're ready for discussion on this website yet. Start by reading the Sequences, especially Mysterious Answers to Mysterious Questions.

Well, it's not that I believe in a Posthuman God - but I do believe in a past eternal universe (multiverse, Existence,..).

"Believing" just in that is IMO a rational belief (until proven otherwise, of course).

Past eternity neccesarily leads to a kind of modal realism - all possible worlds are (or have been) real worlds.

If there is a possible world that allows for a God (to evolve) - then it is neccesarily true.

So the only guestion left is "is there a possible universe where God (-like entity) can evolve"?

That's complicated - but I noted one oversimplified idea that "might" show such a possibility.

i'd like to discuss this in more detail.

"Believing" just in that is IMO a rational belief (until proven otherwise, of course).

Bad epistemology.

If a completely trustworthy person rolled a normal six-sided die, and told you the result is an even number - is it "rational" to believe that the result was 6 ? After all, it hasn't been proven otherwise. No, the ONLY rational belief in that situation is assigning an equal probability to 2, 4 and 6.

If you go around asking "am I allowed to believe this?" for things you want to believe, and "am I forced to believe this?" for things you don't, you're shooting yourself in the foot.

5cousin_it
I cannot imagine what evidence you could have for such a belief.

Hello.

I've only been checking this site for a short while and after reading all these interesting thoughts I posted something myself.

I'm interested in objective, rational thoughts about the ultimate reality of our existence (and Existence itself) and coming from a religious family - I also try to rationalize the notions I have about God.

I see that modal realism and Plantingas ontological argument don't go down well in here and I concur - by themselves they are underwhelmingly weak.

But what if You combine these two views, based one assumption alone - that E... (read more)

2Houshalter
Don't bring up you're religious beliefs here or you will be voted to hell, like me. Just saying, as I am sure this comment will cost me a few more votes X(
4NancyLebovitz
Tentatively offered--- check out Spinoza. He came to the conclusions that God is completely identical with everything that exists, and that everything is determined. To put it mildly, Spinoza's God isn't what most people are looking for when they want a God.

Yep, looks like rubbish. Sorry.

In general, looking to justify your existing beliefs doesn't work. Say this to yourself: "If God exists, I want to believe that God exists. If God doesn't exist, I want to believe that God doesn't exist."