All of samineru's Comments + Replies

I imagine you intended to link to consilience the concept, not the book. Then again you may just be trying to be subtle.

we don't know whether there is a concisely describable objective function that we are the optimum of

I think Wei_Dai was trying to suggest an objective function beyond our ken.

Discounting other theories unjustifiably, or overusing a particular theory past it's explanation is one sin. Not understanding a theory is another however. I think that many people who draw such false conclusions still base them on a pretty clear understanding of the core of evolutionary theory, i.e. mutation, gene exchange, selection, reproduction.

0MatthewBaker
I agree with your sentiment, but I find myself constantly reminded by this site that the majority of the world is stupider than we give them credit for.

I meant to say, is that feeling of "ooh, shiny!" not easily appreciable value in itself?

I understand that I am incorrect, my own self-doubt was not made sufficiently clear. I do not however agree with the fatalism that I perceive in the initial quote. To me it seems to suggest that understanding evolution is impossible. I guess this is not necessarily the appropriate place to look for information on evolutionary theory, but nonetheless I do not agree with the suggestion of unassailability of understanding, if that is what's going on.

This may be fatally sophomoric, but I really don't understand what is so particularly hard to understand about the theory of evolution. Differentiation, Inheritance, Mutation, and Fitness produce a feedback loop of increasing Fitness. The particulars of it's implementation on Earth are far more complicated, but the underlying theory is beautiful in it's elegance and simplicity.

See, there you're just confirming the original quote.

I think that often people believe other things that crowd out the true explanation, so in practice it isn't applied correctly to real-world phenomena. Then, perhaps they try to reintegrate everything under a unifying theory of "evolution".

Anthropomorphism, promiscuous teleology, not understanding the level of selection, absolutist ideas about fitness, belief in a certain philosophical type of progress, etc. are culprits.

After all the misconceptions are added, the only work left for evolution is to provide a label for the jumble!

4MatthewBaker
If i asked the question "why did humans form a hibernative monophasic sleep cycle? most people would say because at night we slept in caves and shelter to escape the dark and we evolved to sleep that way" even though that's not the case with out genes at all. People often attribute things that are entirely behavioral to evolutionary reasons and that's what i think the quotes trying to illustrate. Baby's start out sleeping Polyphasically but soon adapt a natural night/day cycle due to the humans around them (mirror neurons, reinforcement, lighting). Now i dont know if this proposed experiment would-be very feasible or ethical but most people discount it because they "understand" evolution.

Is that not "What has value that is easy to appreciate"?

-1DanielLC
Not really. I have a reaction like that to non-Euclidean geometry, but I don't know many things it can be used for.

The problem with flipping the coin is that it already asks you to make an uncomfortable judgement about the values of John and Lisa's lives. You have already said "Our lives' values are comparable enough to merit coin-flipping". Acting out of the view of the partner gives the sort of mutual plausibly deniability that allows you to both percieve that the partner values your more than themselves.