All of sanddbox's Comments + Replies

Honestly, whether you have aspergers or not a lot of alarm bells are ringing in my head right now.

You're not just set on joining the IDF, but rather any random army. Why?

And if you think aspergers is defined by "fluency" then you don't really understand what aspergers/autism is, honestly.

-3Fivehundred
Have you read this conversation at all?

If someone would guide you through recalling a memory of a pastlife that feels as real as the memories that you recall from your present life how much would that cause you to update?

Knowing how easily manipulable the human mind is, I wouldn't weight that as very strong evidence, especially when it comes to subjective feelings. As an example, humans modify their memories all the time without really realizing it, as in the case of people who point fingers at the wrong crime suspect and decades later are proven wrong.

Beliefs have to pay rent.

Exactly. When has a belief in god payed rent?

Would you start believing in some greater force if someone demostrates to you that those experiences exist by guiding you through the experience?

This is very wishy-washy language. If there were enough evidence of a 'greater force' to make it worth believing, I would believe it. Naturally, that would have to be a lot of evidence.

How much different kind of spiritual experiences would you need to experience to drop your belief in materialism?

For future reference, you'd use "... (read more)

0ChristianKl
I spoke didn't use the God word but spoke more generally about spiritual experiences, which you believe don't happen. The question is: How much evidence would you need? If I understand your map of the world right, spiritual experiences like recalling past lifes shouldn't exist? The people who make those reports didn't really made those experiences. If someone would guide you through recalling a memory of a pastlife that feels as real as the memories that you recall from your present life how much would that cause you to update?

Oh, don't get me wrong (no pun intended) - I don't think it's a bad thing to be frequently wrong. It's only bad to a) refuse to change your opinion and b) not realize you're wrong.

Still, I could be wrong now and then.

If you think you're only wrong "every now and then", then you haven't really learned much from LW.

3Thomas
Good point. To avoid being wrong, one may restrict himself to write about common accepted things, like 2+2=4. What is boring. But I will say something very controversial. Like "faster rotating planets are warmer than slowly rotating, everything else equal". Most people "know" it is the other way around. Then I will try to decompose this statement to some well known and thus boring facts. Risky strategy I know.

Wow, that's a lot of information. Thanks!

Definitely - there's a lot of concepts that seem rather obvious to me, while others take me a lot longer to wrap my head around, so I've been skipping the ones that are really obvious to me.

sanddbox-20

Obviously the actual number itself is completely arbitrary, although I think you did a pretty good job estimating and giving a relatively realistic range. The full impact of Google, of course, can't really be quantified; it's impacted the world culturally, technically, socially, economically, etc. When you think about it, things that we understand qualitatively but not quantitatively are usually massively complex.

1JonahS
You're right. My gut inclination is to to say "there are lots of impacts that we can't quantify, but there would also have been lots of impacts that we couldn't quantify in the case of the counterfactual, and I don't imagine that they would have been systematically better in one case or the other, so I'll ignore such impacts" but this feels like a dodge. Do you have any thoughts there? I do think that the "how much would people have been willing to pay for it?" metric picks up on more qualitative impacts than might initially meet the eye.

Has anyone on LW compiled a list of books/subjects to read/learn that basically gives brings you through all the ideas discussed on LW?

The sequences are the obvious answer, but it's nice to go into subjects a little more in-depth, plus the sequences are somewhat frustrating to navigate (every article in the sequences has links to plenty of other articles, so it's hard to attack the sequences in linear fashion).

1[anonymous]
this might resemble the kind of list you were looking for: http://lesswrong.com/lw/2un/references_resources_for_lesswrong/
CronoDAS100

The most linear way to read Eliezer's Sequences is in chronological order by date of original posting, although it might not be the best way.

Well, yeah. The ability of humans to self-delude themselves is well-known, and of course mental illness exists as well.

It seems a little silly to say "I believe these experiences exist"; it almost sounds like you're trying to imply that some greater force exists. It's reminiscent of those people that say "well, I don't believe in God, but there has to be something" as if they'd just uttered a profound statement.

It'd be silly to doubt that at least a small portion of the people reporting experiences believe they experienced whatever they said.

0ChristianKl
Beliefs have to pay rent. Would you start believing in some greater force if someone demostrates to you that those experiences exist by guiding you through the experience? How much different kind of spiritual experiences would you need to experience to drop your belief in materialism?
2Pentashagon
I'm not implying anything greater than the evolutionary forces that gave us our other quirks. The statement "well, I don't believe in God, but there has to be something" may not be profound, but it's mostly accurate. The "something" is most likely specific neural structures that cause religious experiences in people under the right conditions. To further clarify, I think that some religious experiences are really experienced (e.g. they are not just false memories of experiences that didn't happen) in the human brain and are not conscious self-delusion or self-deception. I think that all religious experiences have natural explanations that don't require the participation of any agent more complex than a standard human.

Huh? Diets are on a spectrum, from shitty to healthy.

1MugaSofer
... good point. You're right, Soylent isn't going to be the highest possible thing on that scale.

just professing a desire to X

Doesn't this, to a large extent, describe LW?

0beoShaffer
Which part?

Facing the front of the elevator seems to be the better choice - you can press buttons, watch the floor numbers tick up, and exit the elevator more quickly.

Facing backwards also sort of cuts out human interaction in cases where, say, somebody new enters the elevator.

sanddbox-10

Either way, the guy's a moron. He's basically a much better packaged snake oil salesman.

2CWG
He's a very effective snake oil salesman.

So, simple is a type of equation?

Jokes aside, that's an excellent answer.

There's a clear difference between interacting with foreigners in your own country, and being a foreigner in another country, which is basically that when you're a foreigner, it's your beliefs/customs/mannerism that are being questioned. If everybody faces the back of the elevator, you're going to start pondering why in the U.S. you face the front of the elevator, whereas those facing the back wouldn't stop and think about why a foreigner might be facing the opposite direction.

Also, obviously, the immersion factor is there. Speaking to foreigners in your own country is not nearly as new/scary an environment as being in a completely foreign country.

7DanArmak
Is there really a why to the direction of facing? Or is it just that both states are stable, but which one is chosen is due to uninteresting historical contingency?

Dietary cholesterol and lipid cholesterol aren't the same thing either, and just as your body can compensate for an intake of 0 cholesterol, it can likewise compensate for an intake of excess cholesterol.

0Vaniver
It's not clear to me yet why I should expect a cholesterol intake above 0 to have superior health outcomes to a cholesterol intake of 0. You don't need to argue that the body can compensate for excess cholesterol; even perfect compensation would just mean that small intake is just as good as 0 intake. You need to argue that without intake, the body will produce a suboptimal amount of cholesterol. Is there any evidence of that?

"Can produce" doesn't mean optimal intake is 0.

0Vaniver
Agreed; this is particularly true for things like creatine. But most Americans have cholesterol higher than recommended, and most of the health risks I'm seeing associated with low cholesterol are "if your cholesterol suddenly drops without a known cause, this is a warning sign for disease." Is there something else I should be aware of? [edit] Thought I should quote the relevant section of the DRIs:

We know a lot less about hunter-gatherers than most people think, and hunter-gatherer tribes fluctuate a lot in terms of their diets/lifestyles, as one would expect with the diversity of the world.

Vegetables tend to be low calorie, so you wouldn't expect tribes to expend a lot of effort getting them. That doesn't really apply to a modern environment where getting enough calories isn't a concern and vegetables can be bought at your local supermarket.

I think it goes without saying what I mean. Healthy diet > soylent > shit diet

-5MugaSofer

Yes, it's better than a shit diet. Pretty much anything is better than shitty diet, though.

My point is that Soylent will be suboptimal. Also, most of the claims they make can't be substantiated.

-2MugaSofer
So ... what other options are you including in "anything", exactly?

Total meal replacement shakes exist, although I have no idea about pricing. However, going down this route is basically ensuring sub-optimal nutrition. We know a ton about nutrition, but not enough to have an optimal diet without food.

1Risto_Saarelma
I looked at what's available in Finnish pharmacies, and they seem to be in the $20 a day ballpark mentioned elsewhere in the thread if you aren't going to eat anything else.
3wedrifid
Very nearly every other diet is also sub-optimal. Most of them are quite probably worse than what we can do via supplementation.

I would strongly recommend against doing this; a meal replacement shake designed by one guy simply won't cover every possible nutrient/compound you'd need from food.

It'll be healthier and more enjoyable just to eat actual food. Our understanding of nutrition is growing, but we're not at the point where we can apply reductionism to food. Supplements are extremely effective as part of a diet, but we don't know enough to make a diet completely based upon supplements.

If you're going to go for meal replacement anyway, don't choose soylent. His understanding of nutrition is mediocre at best; as an example, he put no cholesterol at all in his original formula (I have no idea if he's updated it or not).

0Vaniver
This is actually a bad example; humans can produce cholesterol, and so the FDA does not recommend intake.
2Petruchio
Food is good, but not that good. For instance, 95% of the time, I settle for eating something unhealthy and not particularly appetizing, because it is easy and quick to make. If I were cooking for someone else, this may be a different story. When I first read the Odyssey by Homer, my professor told me the Greek behaved as though sharing a meal was a spiritual experience, which is reflected in our culture (dinner dates, family meals, holidays etc.) But as I currently do not eat with others on a regular basis, I think it would be of greater utility to go with whole food replacement, and eat with others on rare occasions, provided the cost for food replacement is low enough. Or I can explore new post-food psycho-social opportunities, which should be interesting in of itself.
2Eliezer Yudkowsky
I tried that. It didn't work. If you have something specific to recommend that can replace meals instead of Soylent, speak up.