All of simplyeric's Comments + Replies

Not to be a bore but it does say "Lady Average" not "Sir or Madam Average".

Not to be a bore but it does say "Lady Average" not "Sir or Madam Average".

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I'm probably referring to all of the above. That's an interesting speciation of anti-intellectualism, but I am meaning it in the broad sense, because I've seen all of them.
If someone calls me a "liberal elitist", is it version 1, 3, or 5? Does the class issue also result in a gut reaction? Is the traditionalism directly related to the totalizing? I understand the differences as described in the article, but I'm not sure they are easily separable. Sometimes yes, but not always. So: A. I think the differences are interesting, and useful, but n... (read more)

2TheOtherDave
What really entertained me about this clause is that I spent a noticeable period of time trying to remember which of the many competing novel pronoun schemes "ze" was in, before realizing from context that it had to be a second-person pronoun and wondering why would we create a new second-person pronoun given that the English "you" is already ambiguous about gender and number and basically everything else, and only then did my parsing of the rest of the sentence catch up and make me realize it was a joke.

But if you are settling a question of morality, I take it as being a question between multiple people (that's not explicit, but seems to be implicity part of the above). One's personal ethical system needn't aspire, but when settling a question of group ethics or morality, how do you proceed?
Or for that matter, how do I analyze my own ethics? How do I know if I'm achieving ataraxia without looking at the evidence: do my actions reduce displeasure, etc? The result of my (or other people's) actions are relevant evidence, providing necessary feedback to my personal system of ethics, no?

0Ezekiel
Just so we're clear, I'm using "ethics" and "morality" as synonyms for each other and for "terminal values". If you're settling a dispute, there's no objectively true meta-morality to go to in the same way as people speaking is the objectively there state of a language. One party wants some things, the other party wants other things, and depending on what the arbitrator wants, and how much power everyone involved has, the dispute will be settled in a certain way. As for how you analyze your own ethics: You can't, as far as I know. The question of e.g. "do my actions reduce displeasure?" is only relevant once you've decided you want to reduce displeasure. We make decisions by measuring our actions' impact on reality and then measuring that against our values, but we've got nothing to measure our values against.

A. I'm not entirely sure that things that used to be human nature no longer are. We deal with them, surpress them, sublimate, etc. Anger responses, fear, lust, possesiveness, nesting. The animal instincts of the human animal. How those manifest does indeed change, but not the "nature" of them.

B. We live (in the USA) in a long-term culture of anti-intellectualism. Obviously this doesn't mean it can't change... Sometimes it seems like it will (remember the days before nerd-chic?), but in a nominally democratic society, there will always be a m... (read more)

6Eugine_Nier
Which type of anti-intellectualism are you referring to?

My subjective impression is that people who talk a lot about tradition are more interested in "the past" than they are interested in "history". e.g. the history of our nation does not bear out the traditional idea that everyone is equal. Or for that matter, the tradition of social mobility in our country, or the tradition of a wedding veil, or the tradition of Christmas caroling v. wassailing, etc.

After all, in a thousand years or so, Russian revolution and the USSR will be as important as the Mongol invasion and the Khanate of the Golden Horde are today.

Which is to say: pretty important. Not that it's important what exacly some boundary was, or who did what to whom...but all these things are part of the overall development of our current state of affairs, from the development of paper money to credit systems, from Chinese approach to Tibet to the extent of distribution of Islam.

I think it's risky to assume that "science", while more... (read more)

It seems (to me) to be analogous to a lot of fairly technical pursuits: Seismic analysis from purcussion events for finding oil. Tracking the impact of an object on the moon to detect water. Looking for the decay of particles produced and collided by accelerators. Pitching to a batter, over time, will reveal the best way to pitch to that batter (what are his/her strenghts and weaknesses). Haggling.

Approaching its most distilled form: If a system is not giving you information, affect the system in some way [doesn't have to be an "attack" per se]. How the system changes based on your input is instructive, so absorb all of that data.

4MarkusRamikin
Exactly. Poke the confusing-thing, make it give up evidence about how it works. And pay attention to that evidence. I like your last two examples because they involve situations where you don't have all the time in the world to approach a phenomenon, like we do (or at least feel like we do) when studying the fundamental and unchanging laws of Nature. You have to learn and adapt in real time. Of course in a sports game you're already going to "attack" because it's part of the game. So the virtue lies in noticing the evidence it produces. It might seem like an obvious thing to say, but then you see people/teams repeating the same failed strategy over and over. Haggling, negotiation, is pretty much the original context of the quote, and I think the immediate point was to avoid playing defensively and giving up initiative. Waff was trying to tell himself something like, "don't just sit there intimidated by this powerful and mysterious woman, letting her frame the conversation to her advantage. Look for a way to learn more. Probe. Evoke a response." I'm also thinking of strategy games like, say, Starcraft. You want to commit some resources (units, time, your own attention) to scouting, in order to find out what types of units the enemy is relying on (so as to best counter them), which patches of valueable resource he has covered and how vulnerable they are to attack, how well he responds to raiding/harassment etc.

But if you put out maximum effort, you can leave longevity and/or quality on the table. Silverbacks, pitchers, office workers, day-to-day-life, running, eating... Short term maximum effort might detract from long-term maximum utility. The cost/benefits analysis is at times subjective. "Utility" can mean different things to different people. "Utility", as I interpret in a Rationalist context has a very specific almost "economic" meaning. But you can choose to reduce effort and not push the envelop, and go home, have dinner, relax, and enjoy your life. Some people might refer to that as utility, others as low hanging fruit, still others as a healthy balance.

This doesn't seem rational. One must develop an instinct for what one really needs to/wants to/should achieve, and judge whether maximium effort (which I assume would be required to achieve the barely-achievable) is worth the return on that investment.

1Richard_Kennaway
If you're not putting in maximum effort, you're leaving utility on the table.

It's an interesting point but exceedingly simplistic, more so these days than ever before.
What about "the more you think in training", or "the more you learn in training"? Don't get me wrong, I'm not denying the value of sweat (excerise, fitness, etc), I'm just saying it's not even close to the whole equation.

7bcoburn
"Sweat" here is a standin for generic effort, whether it's actual physical sweat or not depends on what exactly you're training for.

Actually I think the full formula is "sweat saves blood, but brains save both". That's as rlevant today as when it was first used, which was in the British Army, around the time of the Crimean War. I think. I wasn't there.

A brief continuance on the derailment of the thread:

•The explosives theory involves a conspiracy - penalty.

The 9/11 attack undisputedly did involve a conspiracy.
The question here is, by whom? (a. just by foreign terrorists, b. an "inside job").

•The explosives theory can be and is used to score political points - penalty.

What does that have to do with anything? A reduction in unemployment can be used to score political points...that certainly doesn't make is unlikely

•The explosives theory doesn't make any goddamn sense - huge penalty.

... (read more)
0roland
I think your points are all valid but they were downvoted because they are against the group belief.

I shouldn't have assumed otherwise! Previous post edited.

Although it does smack of "I was just following orders".

I know that's not what the original quote is about, not most of the responses in this thread. But it's a "logical" extension of the sentiment.

Don't hate the playa, unless the playa is playing a game that is inherently and obviously worthy of hate ("I was just following orders"), or a game that might allow certain things that are worthy of hate. Exploitation of child labor, for example, is within the rules of the game (just not in certain places), and could allow a player to be more successful than one who didn't go to that extent of the rules. In that circumstance, it seems ok to hate the player.

To be able to learn something, you have to have reasonably understood its prerequisites.

I'm not sure if I understand this, but at face value I disagree with this. For example, there is evidence that infants start learning gender roles as soon as their eyes can focus far enough away to be able to see what all is going on. This is a great example of "the things you assume which really sink into them", and I'm not sure what the understood prerequisite would be.

I think it's quite rational to point out that people have psychological and physiological reaction to "inclusion" and attention. The reaction that people have may not be inherently rational, but identifying it seems quite rational to me.

Now, the way that quote is phrased is not in a rationalist manner, and Rich may not be entirely rational about it: she seems to be saying "this is what it is" without analysis or potential solution. It would take a good strong rationalist to be able to be in the situation Rich describes and not feel marginalized, since the reaction is probably an instinctual one.

1NancyLebovitz
Sorry for the ambiguity-- Adrienne Rich is a woman.

It also allows us to weight the consequences in order to, in fact, suffer them by choice, with the notion that suffering of certain consequences has other payoffs.

Sounds like someone had a crush on their Math 101 teacher....

But yes, this is right on. Ask them a question that allows (but does not require) the other person to tell a story (stories can be quite short...I use the word in a loose sense). Respond with your own, make it as short or shorter, and only one-up someone once.

(by one-up I mean, tell a better story. If they tell you about their cute Math 101 teacher, and you tell them about the time you saw your math teacher on a date or something, and they come back with the math teacher drunk at a casino or something, maybe leave it at that....sometimes people don't like to have their story trumped, unless you have a REALLY good story to throw down there).

0taryneast
Actually it was Knowledge Based Systems... Cute and made me think. :) Math 101 I spent up the back next to a Mensa guy who kept distracting me with interesting puzzles... but that's another story.

I've been able to turn non-social curiosity into good social interaction. Dale Carnegie says that if you want to be a good conversationalist...if you want people to like you... you need to talk about what the other person wants to talk about. And often the other person wants to talk about themselves, if only for a second. But, what happens if 2 Dale Carnegie followers talk? "Enough about me, lets talk about you". "No no, enough about me, lets talk about you."

I find a better application is, ask a question, or 2, and then rather than... (read more)

But you can broaden the questions as well.

Looking at Neanderthals/hominids:

How does this relate to the understanding of art, creativity, madness, motherly love? The notions of greed in children, in adults, in a capitalist economy, and how does that relate to the regulation of markets, conflicts of interests, incentivization and moral hazards? How does this relate to the notions of religion/theology, race, climate tolerance? How does climate tolerance relate to the social structure of Californians, and what does air conditioning mean for society going forw... (read more)

But curiosity can also be like R&D, and the funding of basic research, which can have huge payoffs that are unexpected compared to what they were originally targeted for.

Curiosity should at times be targeted, but if you are too targeted you can miss a lot of stuff, for example: how things work. Not "a thing". But "things", in general. In order to be good at life you need to know a wide variety of things, in order to be able to generate your own overall fabric of how the world works.

Also, being too targeted makes you boring.

0sark
But note that R&D, basic research, is unexpected in the sense that we as outsiders don't know which narrowly focused group will succeed. It is very rare that when some group does succeed that it consists of undisciplined dilettantes pursuing research in an unfocused matter. So it's a matter of not knowing which research goals have highest payoffs, instead of not knowing which goals you as a researcher are interested in pursuing. Or think about it this way, the existing social epistemology setup already implements what is necessary to reap the rewards of curiosity on this larger scale. You as an individual researcher, should rather narrow your curiosity to what you are immediately working on. Being mediocre makes you boring. I am all for interestingness. The optimal curiosity-focus balance for that is somewhere in between.

many people would say: don't put knives in the dishwasher at all.

Meaning, good kitchen knives...tableware is fine. But kitchen knives (slicers, dicers, etc) depend on very thin foils at the blade edge. The chemicals and heat involved in dishwashers can damage the blade.

(this is only marginally resolved by using serrated knives...those may not be damaged by dishwashers as much, but I have yet to find one that works as well as a pretty good kitchen knife that is even marginally maintained)

0taryneast
Henckels do a really nice serrated knife. That being said - they also do really nice proper knives. They're really expensive, but if you have, say, a mother who never ever sharpens her knives and therefore believes that only serrated knives are "sharp", a Henckels knife is a great present.

And all of this is culture coded and may vary for your specific location or subtype of bar.

Absolutely. Although I'll mention that I've had good luck with this general approach in various parts (both geographically and demographically) of the United States, Western Europe, and at least one part of Eastern Europe. But, I'd like to reinforce:

A general safe way to go is to observe what other people do.

This is absolutely the best advice...but be careful to observe the right people. Observe the people who seem to get drinks "effortlessly" (ra... (read more)

There are many who believe that the key to better hair is NOT using as much shampoo. Use as little as possible in order to not have greasy hair. This takes time to master. Some people need a full scrub every day. Some people need almost nothing. The homeostatis of your scalp is the key: using less shampoo should, over time, make your scalp produce less oil.
I'm down to a point where I go a day or two rinsing only, sometimes just a little bit of extra soap from when I washed my neck. When I wash my hair, I use very little shampoo...the bare minimum. T... (read more)

0mindspillage
Concurring with minimal shampoo. Also, try conditioning with natural oils if your hair is dry (coconut oil in particular, though don't let it clog your drain). If you really care about keeping long hair in great condition, wear it up or braided most of the time. I don't have the patience or the desire for that, so I have to trim my damaged ends more often than some do, also. (I am female, with waist-length hair; I think of wearing my hair down rather than up as akin to using the good dishes rather than letting them sit in the cabinet.)

I spend more time than I should at bars (I like my sports, and don't own a TV..), and I've developed a few rules of thumb:

  1. I never say "keep the change"...but I often say "I'm all set, thanks" if I hand them a $20 for $18 of drinks, (or $17..) for example. "I'm all set" has the same effective meaning as "keep the change", but without the connotations.
  2. Overtip...in moderation. Standard American fare: $1 per drink. If you order 3 drinks, tip 3 dollars. If you order 8 drinks at once, it depends. If you ordere
... (read more)
3MartinB
And all of this is culture coded and may vary for your specific location or subtype of bar. A general safe way to go is to observe what other people do. Sidenote: since i only started drinking late in life and did not yet develop a favorite drink I often order a) local b) the same as my peer(s) c) by name only. Many people seem to act as if there is an objectively best drink to order. But I would guess that is wrong. Feel free to try.

An interesting concept...but I wonder. I bet at least some people would actually notice that. They'd see unrest in the middle east and say "hmm...oil prices didn't change the way I expected them to" or something. Sometimes you see things like " index rises in spite of ".

I think Graham's inference has merit: these people don't really know what's happening...but I think some people at least would notice the anomoly.

Well now I want to test this. Do we have anyone here who thinks they know a thing or two about the stock market? If so would they be amenable to an experiment?

I'm thinking that they would agree not to look at any stock price information for a day (viewing all the other news they want). At the end of the day they are presented with some possible sets of market closes, all but one of which of which are fake, and we see if they can reliably find the right one.

"IOW, just because a given team imagines it possible to win does not mean they can win, because winning is not under their control"

But just because a team does not win, does not mean it was not possible.

I mean, think of all the things that a person does multiple times but doesn't do every time. Hit a golf ball x yards, run a 7 minute mill, sing on key. The "imagining" has nothing to do with it.

Wow that's interesting...but really weird.

What if you have a firm conviction that betting is immoral?

Then, you prove your belief by NOT betting.

I think the "betting proof" is a cultural thing. Of course...I wouldn't bet much on that.

maybe, as ninjacolin describes, you have to stand up once BEFORE you fall down. So, in fact, to end up standing, you MUST stand up one more time than you fall down (unless you assume that everyone starts out standing, which they don't).

Is that what the proverb means? Not necessarilly... but the math isn't wrong.

And there is why it seems not entirely rational to discuss what is and isn't funny...Shokwave believes that he has rationally shown that "Rene Descartes died, therefore he stopped thinking" isn't funny. You have used his same logic to demonstrate that it IS funny.

I personally don't think it's funny, as delivered. But, with the right delivery, it could be hilarious, I suppose.

I'm fascinated by the rational discussion of "the nature of funny", by the way. I was opining on the discussion of "the objective funniness of a particular joke".

"What we don't understand, we ought to rationally analyze...."

Absolutely. And what "our best guess" imples to me is that we don't fully understand "funny" or "joke" or "comedy" So we ought to rationally analyze that issue. What I feel you did there was you took your interpretation of "our best guess" as good enough and moved forward with unequivocated confidence to apply it to a joke that someone wrote. I feel like there is a procedural lapse there. You were anayzing The Joke At Hand, while... (read more)

"Nope"

Isn't it not entirely rational to declare something so unequivocally, based on:

"Our best guess..."?

A. I'm not sure I agree that humor is simply unexpected pattern breaking. I'm sure there's a link that elaborates that theory? There are many aspects of humor, and I think breaking it down to such a blanket statement is probably too simplistic. (I do agree that's certainly part of it).

B. Even if your statement is correct, you are then also implying that it is purely objective what it funny, and thus purely objective what the ... (read more)

0Desrtopa
In the right context, I find it to be. It's so obvious and uninsightful that it causes an unexpected pattern break if you expect any sort of twist or clever input.
0shokwave
Nope. That we can only guess means we don't understand; what we don't understand, we ought to analyse, rationally if at all possible. This section in quotes is the only conclusion you can draw from Descartes' "I think, therefore I am". Humans are familiar with the concept that death stops brain function, so the section outside the quotes is invariant over all subjective viewpoints. Therefore, someone trying to make a joke about Descartes' "I think, therefore I am" is almost certainly going to commit some form of logical fallacy, because the only non-fallacious route isn't a joke. That is, "joke" strongly implies "fallacy", because "correct" strongly implies "not funny" (implicit assumption that "funny" is a necessary condition for "joke").

There is substantial literature that suggests that language acquisition is more difficult, slower, and ultimately less successful in adults than in younger people. I believe it's often mentioned that it's at about 12-14 yrs old that the neural plasticity for language acquisition fades. http://pandora.cii.wwu.edu/vajda/ling201/test4materials/secondlangacquisition.htm http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f03/web2/mtucker.html

I never said that it's impossible for an adult to learn a foreign language, just not as fast or effective. That man's blog seem... (read more)

0sfb
For the record he says 3 months to fluency is his personal goal, not what he guarantees/claims is always possible. There are videos of him speaking on his various blogs, but since I don't speak any non-English languages I can't judge his fluency, but I expect he is conversationally competent and not indistinguishable from a native, and yes he has to work hard at it so it's not the same kind of easy learning as children have, which seems to be what your links support, so no argument from me there. However, he still seems to learn a useful conversational ability in a language in months whereas children take years to do that, so I still think your statement "but an adult will never learn second languages faster than a child" is a strange claim, unless you specifically mean "like a native", which seems a much stricter test than necessary. From your links: Yet the results of child language learning are not equal or always total fluency - plenty of adults barely seem to know what they are saying, cannot express themselves clearly, do not finish sentences 'properly', don't notice the difference between similar words and sentences with different meanings, and people cannot orate without learning to be orators, cannot write without learning to write (I mean author well written texts instead of drivel), cannot tell stories captivatingly without practise, cannot follow official formal documents, and other linguistic things which you might lump in with fluency or might not, leading to potentially very different expectations of a fluent person. The second link makes several comments including adult lack of opportunity (limited classroom time) which is interestingly mentioned here: http://www.fluentin3months.com/hours-not-years/
2Vladimir_M
simplyeric: I think the confusion here is about what exactly is meant by "learning" a language. If the goal is to quickly build some rudimentary skill for finding one's way around in a foreign language (which basically boils down to memorizing a lot of words and stock phrases, along with a few very basic syntactic patterns), an intelligent adult will likely be able to achieve it faster because of better work ethic and superior general experience in tackling intellectual problems. On the other hand, if the goal is to become indistinguishable from a native speaker, then the kid clearly has an advantage no matter how long it takes, because the task is impossible for the overwhelming majority of adults (which for this purpose means anyone over 12 or so). You may become a fluent speaker and perhaps even a good writer, but you're stuck with a foreign accent, and even if you manage to get rid of it with special training, you'll still make occasional subtle but noticeable syntactic and semantic errors. If the goal is something in-between, the winner will depend on the exact benchmarks of success.
0Richard_Kennaway
Mario Pei, who knew an astonishing number of languages (to what degree I don't know), quipped that the first ten are the hardest.

"1.The best people enter fields that accurately measure their quality. Fields that measure quality poorly attract low quality."

I would edit it thus:

A- "Fields that measure quality poorly retain low quality, and repel The Best People." (The Best People will get fed up and leave)

and a related:

B- "People of varying quality enter fields that reflect a lot of different things, low on the list of which is how that field measures quality. High on the list would be how that field is compensated." (in all the variations of "comp... (read more)

"Peak travel in the US will lead naturally to changes in urban design as people reduce regular travel to increase leisure travel: 53%"

Could you elaborate on this some?

There are various processes underway that are already affecting urban, suburban, and exurban design...some of them are "style" and "trend", some of them are result of the cost:benefit experiment that the last 20-30 yrs of housing development has been (always is, to be fair), some a result of fear or gas prices or the viability of the airline industry.

I'm curious what you see coming out of the interplay of regular travel v. liesure travel...

I'm sure someone will point out if I am incorrect here, but:

Isn't it somewhat irrational to analyze why a joke isn't funny? Isn't it sortof like trying to use a rational analysis to demonstrate that you should or should not like the sound of birds?

I mean, hey now, c'mon.

( In any case, the joke wasn't "Descarte died thus stopped thinking". )

1shokwave
Nope. Our best guess on humour is that it is unexpected pattern-breaking. This is a function of our extremely complex pattern-matching muscle, the brain. My rational analysis of what happened in Costanza's post is that he attempted to break the pattern of "cogito ergo sum is an axiom / truism or important / obvious / wise statement" by presenting a situation where the statement's conclusion is absurd. My post pointed out that the joke was funny to students of logic because it breaks the pattern of "logic". I am not sure how this is like demonstrating that you should or should not like the sound of birds. That equivocates "is" and "should" - a joke is funny or a joke isn't funny, and you can analyse why this is so quite rationally, whereas "a joke should be funny" is definitionally true. Your statement is further scuttled by talking about what a person should do, instead of a concept like 'joke' or 'bird'. There's no agreed-upon shouldness for people. The joke was definitely not "Descartes died thus stopped thinking"; nobody would make a joke about that, because that's not funny. (This is a filter on jokes about Descartes' cogito: all correct interpretations are not funny. Jokes are - at least an attempt at - funny. Therefore all jokes about the cogito are not correct interpretations.)

But an adult will never learn second languages faster than a child, and in fact will never learn a first language at all if not during childhood.

The same is true with sports. I imagine that if an adult has never learned to walk (somehow) that it would take a lot longer than a few months to learn to walk (a newborn doesn't take years to learn to walk...he/she takes years to build muscle strength, and then typically a short time to learn to walk and then immediately run).

I think we all wish McWilliams was correct...I just don't think he is.

2wnoise
Pretty much true. There's probably some fading of plasticity, but there's lots of other explanations too. Children learning languages are surrounded by it, and spend all their time learning it. Almost all adult language learning is part time, rather than full time immersion. Fluency in either case requires several years, but "can get by in" is plausibly shorter (weeks to months, say) for an adult learning secondary languages as compared to a child. An adult also often has the advantage of being able to discuss the structure and vocabulary of the target language in already acquired language. What is nearly universally true is that people's ability to make and distinguish between phones not present in their early environment is very weak. I will probably always have a difficult time distinguishing between "cot" and "caught" because they contain allophones of the same phoneme in my dialect. Same for "merry", "mary" and "marry".
0sfb
Child -> several years to fluency. Adult -> http://fluentin3months.com/ he started learning other languages in his late twenties.

I definitely like this statement...but I am not sure I agree with it.

Much learning is passive and not a result of wanting or even trying. And, a skillful teacher can cause learning (and by extension education) to happen without the student wanting to learn, or knowing that he/she is learning.

I suppose there is a specific distinction between "education" and "learning", although I am not sure if it functionally boils down to this.

Technically off-topic...but I've never understood why people think turkeys can't fly. I've even seen an ornithologist quoted in the NYTimes saying it (when a live turkey was found on an upper level balcony). Maybe it's just domesticated turkeys...but I've definitely seen wild turkeys fly (and no, it's got nothing to do with the whiskey).

Which brings me to an interesting (to me) question: why do people base a piece of "wisdom" on a reference that is untrue to begin with?

[and in closing: You don't win friends with salad.]

2MichaelGR
That's a good question. If I had to guess, I would say that most people used to be familiar with the domestic turkey that is being fattened for thanksgiving dinner (or whatever), and those probably can't fly very well, if at all.

Maybe a more salient example than my integrated Native Americans: Protestants v. Catholics.

In certain circumstances it was simply war and/or strife.

("simply")

But, in situations where both groups were fully native, there were situation where one group would try to eliminate the other through legislation, deportation, and also extermination.

I think that within the subset of United States's aggression against the Native American population, there were many instances where fully integrated people were subsequently persecuted and eliminated. Some of it was at the "frontiers", yes. But some of it was shopowners, millers, brewers...people who had fully adapted and in fact thrived within the europeanized colonies and later states.
This was still happening in the 1950's and 60's as well, with the flooding of native lands in the Dakotas, etc, where fully "Americanized" communities were eliminated through forced relocation.

I'm of the mind that politically, in the US at least, we don't seem to learn from this. The truth is, indeed, revealed....but the confusion remains and the errors continue.

There are many who disagree with me about that...

but that's because they're confused AND in error.
(ok ok I kid on that last part...)

"And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me." —Martin Niemoeller

I think that quote speaks a little about the worst enemies within us, in purely clinical terms, that what's in the best interest of those with whom you don't necessarily explicitly associate yourself may also be in your own best interest.

The thing to keep in mind about the Jewish Holocaust is that it wasn't particularly unusual. It was unusual mostly in its location: it was rare to carry out such large scale atrocities ''in Europe''. Exterminations had ... (read more)

-5[anonymous]
1NancyLebovitz
What is unusual (I think) about the Jewish Holocaust is that it wasn't part of a conquest. Jews were very well integrated into German society, and had never been at war with it. Any other similar cases?

There might be a strong chance that horses and other animals would draw their gods as having human form. Humans tend to protray their gods as being either equal or higher than humanity. Animist gods are protrayed as having characteristics that surpass humans: speed, wisdom, patience, etc. based on the characteristics of that animal. Alternately, sun gods, storm gods, etc.: higher powers.

Some wild horses would have horse gods or weather gods or wolf gods. Some might have human gods, depending on their interaction with humanity.

I'd imagine that dome... (read more)

0nazgulnarsil
this should at the very least be turned into a short story.

I'm not sure that's true. The issue isn't what a person "thinks"...it's what a person ultimately concludes. A scientist must think for itself in order to hypothesize, no? I think science goes wrong when scientists conclude for themselves, in the face of the actul facts on the matter.
I think what is being referenced above is how to separate information from who said it, and how.

Although I just realized that I just referred to my profession as "non-traditional", and was complicit in the pairing of my profession to stage magic.

Hmm...

0xamdam
Feel free to pop onto the NYC meetup list here and say hello (and would love to meet you in person): http://groups.google.com/group/overcomingbiasnyc?hl=en
0MichaelVassar
Stage magic and critical thinking seem to go together extremely well. I think technical drawing would be a good skill for most people to have. If you can introduce yourself to me via Gmail I'd love to introduce you to the physical NYC Less Wrong community.

NYC based architect (active in the profession) with experience teaching computer drafting and technical drawing, computer modeling (3d modeling and some rendering), as well as various aspects of design and technical problem solving...

0simplyeric
Although I just realized that I just referred to my profession as "non-traditional", and was complicit in the pairing of my profession to stage magic. Hmm...

What happens out there in the hurly-burly is not a "zero-sum" or "constant-sum" game. Specifically: it's not a "game" at all. Those games are distillations and models used for testing behavior. This tells us certain things about how people react and interact, but it doesn't tell the whole story.
Going for relative makes sense when you can't take, you can't (necessarily) earn, you can't (in the short term) increase/generate. But you CAN win by destroying. You destroy your opponents resource, thereby "increasing" your wealth in a relative sense. It's why we bombed weapons plants during WW2, no? And to an extent, it's why they salted the earth....

I guess I need your analysis in a real world example, because I think we are talking too much about the "game" model. If I kill your cattle, or I salt your earth, what is the sum? What is the constant? What is the bias? My point is: the sum is negative, there is no constant, and the bias is towards "gratification".
I don't think killing my competitors cattle comes from an inherent evolutionary-economic analysis...I think it comes from "doing this releases endorphines in my brain in the short term, I see his wealth destroyed and t... (read more)

0Sniffnoy
And going for relative sense makes sense when? In a zero-sum (or if you like, constant-sum) game. Though this may be getting away from the original statement?
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