All of thebestwecan's Comments + Replies

I second this. Really not sure what justifies such confidence.

I disagree with the article for the following reason: if I have two hypotheses that both explain an "absence of evidence" occurrence equally well, then that occurrence does not give me reason to favor either hypothesis and is not "evidence of absence."

Example: Vibrams are a brand of toe-shoes that recently settled a big suit because they couldn't justify their claims of health benefits. We have two hypotheses (1) Vibrams work, (2) Vibrams don't work. Now, if a well-executed experiment had been done and failed to show an effect, that wou... (read more)

1Wes_W
This statement is technically true, but not in the way you're using it. Suppose Vibrams had been around for a thousand years. For a thousand years, people had been challenging their claims to health benefits in court. For a thousand years, time and again, Vibrams had been unable to credibly defend their claims. Would that make you any more skeptical of the claims in question, at least a little bit? If the answer is "yes", you are agreeing that some very large number of such events constitutes evidence against Vibrams. I don't see any way around concluding, from there, that at least one individual instance provides some nonzero amount of evidence - perhaps very small, but not zero. "Vibrams work, but the effect is small and/or the experiment was shoddy" and "Vibrams don't work" explain the outcome nearly equally well. They cannot explain it precisely equally well: the first hypothesis would assign a higher P(claims defended) than the second, because even small effects are sometimes correctly detected, and even shoddy experiments sometimes aren't fatally flawed. So the second necessarily has a higher P(~claims defended) than the first. This difference is precisely the thing that makes (~claims defended) evidence for the second hypothesis. Evidence is not proof. Depending on the ratios involved, it may constitute very weak evidence, sometimes weak enough that it's not even worth tracking for mere humans: a .0001% shift is lost in the noise when people aren't even calibrated to the nearest 10%. If you have two hypotheses that both explain an "absence of evidence" precisely equally well, then you're looking at something completely uncorrelated: trying to deduce the existence of a Fifth Column from the result of a coin flip. And if they explain it only nearly, but not exactly equally well, then you have evidence of absence - although maybe not very much, and maybe not enough to actually push you into the other camp.
2keen
In the situation you describe, the settlement is weak evidence for the product not working. Weak evidence is still evidence. The flaw in "Absence of evidence is evidence of absence," is that the saying omits the detailed description of how to correctly weight the evidence, but this omission does not make the simple statement untrue.

I believe the prevalence of moral realism within EA is risky and bad for EA goals for several reasons. One of which is that moral realists tend to believe in the inevitability of a positive far-future (since smart minds will converge on the "right" morality), which tends to make them focus on ensuring the existence of the far future at the cost of other things.

If smart minds will converge on the "right" morality, this makes sense, but I severely doubt that is true. It could be true, but that possibility certainly isn't worth sacrificing... (read more)

I agree with Luke here. CEA seems to often overstate its role in the EA movement (another example at http://centreforeffectivealtruism.org/).

Uh, I contacted him. Tom, this is on the survey planning document :P

Yes. Many non-EA results will include lots of "unsure/unfamiliar with the options" responses.

Yes, I contacted him personally to fill it out. We used personal contacts as much as possible to avoid biased sampling (as many EAs don't frequent online forums like LW and Facebook).

1tog
[confused comment, ignore]

I think it'd be interesting to know more about the specific ethical views of ethically-minded EAs, but the majority of EAs are not well-versed enough to make Utilitarianism vs. Other Consequentialism distinctions. It's good to make a big survey like this as easy to fill out as possible.

Same thing about the "political views" point, although there are standards for left vs. right across countries: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left%E2%80%93right_politics

1Said Achmiz
I think that's a problem! (I discuss in this comment some reasons why.)
1tog
I agree about consequentialism. Also, at that level of detail I can't see a way it's action-relevant (whereas if most EAs say they have no knowledge of ethical theories, that suggests a non-philosophical audience is more receptive than some have thought). We should have explained that political terms were what you'd naturally describe yourself as in your country. Do people think most will have interpreted them thus? If so, we can cross-tabulate them against country. If not, would this make many people more than one point out along the spectrum? I'd have thought that an American who describes themselves as 'left' is at least 'centre left' in Europe, and so on.

It was used in the Felicifia community, although it wasn't used as definitively as it is now. Although 'strategic altruism' was more common although that wasn't as catchy. It was also just used in casual conversation.

I could be wrong though.

2jefftk
The first mention I find on the Felicifia site is from 2012. (As a check, the first entry I find for "suffering" is 2007.) (And trying this search with Felicifia's search tool gives "The following words in your search query were ignored because they are too common words: altruism effective.")
3DjangoCorte
This 'official' account gives the impression that no term had much common currency, apart from the jokey 'super-hardcore do-gooder' before the end of 2011. I can't comment about whether other branches of the community used terms in a similar way- I've never heard of felicifia. http://www.effective-altruism.com/the-history-of-the-term-effective-altruism/
3tog
That's interesting, especially if someone can find a link. Here's a date-based Google search, though a cursory glance doesn't reveal any references where the term itself was included before 2012: https://www.google.ca/search?q=%22effective+altruism%22&client=firefox-a&hs=1mw&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=sb&sa=X&ei=pohiU5jjINSyyASUgIGgBQ&ved=0CB0QpwUoBg&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F1%2F2008%2Ccd_max%3A12%2F31%2F2011&tbm=

I definitely agree LW affiliation will be a major predictor of other results. Perhaps I should have made two sets of predictions (one for LW folks, one for others). - Jacy

1EricHerboso
Just to be clear, it wouldn't be "LW affiliation"; it would be "heard of EA through LW". I'm sure there are quite a few like me who learned about LW through EA, not the other way around.
3Drayin
One thing that would be really interesting is comparing EA-LW folks with both the standard EA answers and the standard LW survey answers.

Effective Altruism was used several years before CEA adopted the term. If you heard it before that time, please put the earlier date. However, yes, many people will put dates after CEA's adoption (or even after Singer's TED Talk, which seems to be the final galvanization of the term).

2jefftk
When I wrote "A Name For A Movement?" in March 2012, "Effective Altruism" was a name in circulation, but other names like "Smart Giving" and "Optimal Philanthropy" were more common.
5tog
Are you sure it was used beforehand Jacy? Are there instances you can remember?