All of Thelo's Comments + Replies

The percentage of people who bet on sports is rising rapidly, but even so only 34% said they placed even one bet in 2023, and many of those will be limited to nominal wagers on things like the Super Bowl and March Madness. This survey has 39% sports betting participation, with about 35% of betters betting at least once a week.

 

Holy cow! These numbers are absolutely, brutally shocking to me. I honestly expected sports betting to be a small fraction of a percent of the general population, not t h i r t y - n i n e percent!! I don't think I've ever seen ... (read more)

5Max Entropy
I feel like we're the blind men with the elephant more often than we'd like to admit. A lot of the time when two people make conflicting claims about society, really they're both right about their substrate of society and the world is just twice as big as either thought. Another shocker for most people: 20 million people in the US live in trailer parks. People with similar life circumstances tend to accumulate in similar places, only see those places, and thus vastly underestimate the diversity of life experience. (This is also true of everything in https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/KpMNqA5BiCRozCwM3/social-dark-matter)
4alexey
I mostly agree, but it's a double-digit percent increase in bankruptcies which ends up being (from the post)

The link to "The Optimizer's Curse" in the article is dead at the moment (<https://faculty.fuqua.duke.edu/~jes9/bio/The_Optimizers_Curse.pdf>), but I think I found it at <https://jimsmith.host.dartmouth.edu/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/The_Optimizers_Curse.pdf>. If that's the right one, can you update the link?

What about the claims in "Maintaining behavior" that you do need consistent aversives (punishment), but only inconsistent rewards? That seems to say the exact opposite of the earlier stance: it says that you should use lots of punishments (every time the subject gets something wrong), and few rewards.

I'm confused as to what the book actually wants you to do.

9juliawise
One of the chapters deals with getting rid of behaviors you don't want, with eight methods (some of which she doesn't recommend). For example, training an incompatible behavior: if don't want your dog to beg at the table during dinner, train your dog to lie down someplace else during dinner. Or "shape the absence" - reinforce everything that's not the unwanted behavior. 
5Viliam
I recommend reading the book. It is one of the best things I have ever read. A short review or a comment cannot explain everything. (Also, I don't fully remember everything; it was a few years ago.) First, there is a difference between teaching a behavior, and unteaching a behavior. (Is "unteach" a proper English word?) Second, there is a difference between creating a new habit, and maintaining the existing habit. On the topic of unteaching, the important thing is that instead of "don't do X" it is often easier to teach an alternative "in situation Z (instead of X) do Y". But if you want to use punishments, the important thing is that they come immediately and consistently. A small punishment that comes always and immediately after the act, works much better than a large punishment that comes only sometimes and several days after the act. When you start teaching a new habit using rewards, again the important thing is to deliver the reward immediately and consistently... at the beginning. But after the habit is established, you gradually reduce the size and frequency of the rewards. If you stop rewarding suddenly, the animal will give it a few more attempts, and then give up... and maybe occassionally try again, just to see if the rewards have returned. But if you gradually make the rewards rare, the animal will keep doing it, and the occassional reward will be enough to keep the habit. If you deliver the rare rewards regularly (e.g. only once a day, or always once per 100 attempts), the animal will notice the regularity, and after receiving a reward will slow down (because it means that the next reward is far away). But if you deliver the rare rewards unpredictably, the animal will keep trying all the time.

That doesn't seem to follow, actually. You could easily have a very large universe that's almost entirely empty space (which does "repeat"), plus a moderate amount of structures that only appear once each.

And as a separate argument, plenty of processes are irreversible in practice. For instance, consider a universe where there's a "big bang" event at the start of time, like an ordinary explosion. I'd expect that universe to never return to that original intensely-exploding state, because the results of explosions don't go backwards in time, right?

1Rafael Harth
Yeah, nonemptiness was meant to be part of the assumption in the phrase you quoted. We're getting into territory where I don't feel qualified to argue – although it seems like that objection only applies to some very specific things, and probably not to most Sleeping Beauty like scenarios.

Thanks for the mention, I had never heard of that concept before.

I have strong reflexes of revulsion against this idea that everything must reoccur (aren't plenty of processes irreversible in our world?), but it's getting too off-topic for the original article, and I need to think more about this.

"The experiment being repeated sufficiently often might be considered a reasonably mild restriction; in particular, it is a given if the universe is large enough that everything which appears once appears many times."

Why is that a given? The set of integers is very large, but the number 3 only appears once in it.

2Rafael Harth
I think the relevant difference is that, in the set of integers, each element is strictly more complex than the previous one, but in the universe, you can probably upper bound the complexity (that's what I'm assuming, anyway). So eventually stuff should repeat, and then anything that has a nonzero probability of appearing will appear arbitrarily often as you increase the size. For example, if there's an upper bound to the complexity of a planet, then you can only have that many planets until you get a repeat.
2shirisaya
The typical answer is that this is a result of the Poincaré recurrence theorem

Another easy option for rolling a N-sided die is a N-sided prism, like a pencil that you roll on the table that can only come to rest on one of N sides (and never on the tips). With 3 sides it becomes a triangular prism that doesn't quite roll as well as we'd like, but it's doable.

Yet another option is a spinning top with N faces, where you can set N to whatever you want that's >= 3.

But you're right that in practice, probably re-labeling an existing dice, like relabeling a d6 as [1,1,2,2,3,3], is easiest.

Agreed.

All information has a cost (time is a finite resource), the value of any arbitrary bit of information is incredibly variable, and there is essentially infinite information out there, including tremendous amounts of "junk".

Therefore, if you spend time on low-value information, claiming that it has non-zero positive value, then you have that much less time to spend on the high-value information that matters. You'll spend your conversation energy towards trivialities and dead-ends, rather than on the central principle. You'll scoop up grains of sand while ignoring the pearls next to you, so to speak. And that's bad.

2Vladimir_Nesov
(See the edit in the grandparent, my initial interpretation of the post was wrong.)

Thanks, that worked.

Are pictures or links missing from this post? I can't see any of the Elon Musk or Neville Longbottom pics that the text talks about.

5Ben Pace
Well that's my bad. I messed up the post when I promoted it. Have now fixed it, and will be fine if Helen decides to make any future edits.