wisnij comments on Absolute denial for atheists - Less Wrong

39 Post author: taw 16 July 2009 03:41PM

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Comment author: wisnij 17 July 2009 02:57:59AM 3 points [-]

That "free will", at least as commonly defined, is largely illusory.

Comment author: Alicorn 17 July 2009 03:08:26AM 3 points [-]

What's the "common definition" you're drawing on?

Comment author: [deleted] 19 July 2009 04:18:45AM 0 points [-]

"The ability for a consciousness to nondeterministically make choices"?

Comment author: Alicorn 19 July 2009 04:32:46AM 9 points [-]

But what does that mean? I've asked people who believe in libertarian free will what they are getting at many times. They do not mean that actions are random, and they don't believe they're determined by prior states of affairs. I literally cannot wrap my mind around what else might be possible, let alone what other possible thing could reasonably go by the name "freedom".

Comment author: [deleted] 23 July 2009 02:04:57AM 2 points [-]

They're trying to pretend that the model that we had before we had any idea how the brain worked is still correct. It doesn't mean anything, it's just commonly taken as a given. It would be stupid to say it was random and depressing (but true!) to say that choices are a function of brain states.

Comment author: RobinZ 20 July 2009 12:02:35PM *  0 points [-]

As someone who audited a three-credit "Action and Responsibility" class in college, my impression is that there is no more explanation to be had. There are some people who construct more elaborate theories which do have internals (cf. Robert Kane - actually, his "A Contemporary Introduction to Free Will" is short, readable, and accurate as an introduction to the classic theories and to his own), but the "naive libertarians" refuse to believe that it is any more complicated than that.

Edit: What am I doing? You're training to be a philosopher! You're the one who should be telling me!

Comment author: JulianMorrison 20 July 2009 12:17:51PM 0 points [-]

When I say free will, I mean that I'm too ignorant to use production rules in a given optimization search space.

Comment author: t2LambdaLambda6 19 July 2009 12:28:49AM *  7 points [-]

The notion "a common notion of 'free will' exists" is largely illusory.

Comment author: CannibalSmith 17 July 2009 12:48:29PM 0 points [-]

That doesn't make life any less enjoyable.