RobinZ comments on Rationality Quotes November 2009 - Less Wrong

8 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 29 November 2009 11:36PM

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Comment author: RobinZ 30 November 2009 01:00:41PM 2 points [-]

That's not even empirically true. At best, morality is the (really complicated) function relating "is" and "ought" - which means errors in the "is" can make vast differences to the consequent "ought".

(For example, in the Americas a couple centuries ago, it was widely believed that black people were not capable of being successful and happy without supervision of white people, and it was consequently meet to own such people in the same way as livestock is owned.)

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 30 November 2009 09:10:39PM 6 points [-]

(For example, in the Americas a couple centuries ago, it was widely believed that black people were not capable of being successful and happy without supervision of white people, and it was consequently meet to own such people in the same way as livestock is owned.)

As much as I keep citing this as an example myself, I don't think we're literally talking about sole prior cause and posterior effect here.

Comment author: RobinZ 30 November 2009 09:12:31PM *  0 points [-]

A fair point, to be sure.

Edit: To be precise, to a major extent, the causality is probably in the opposite direction - because treating people the way slaves were treated is wrong, those with a stake in the matter had it widely argued that the chattel slaves were not people in the proper sense of the word.

Comment author: Zack_M_Davis 30 November 2009 07:54:01PM 0 points [-]

At best, morality is the (really complicated) function relating "is" and "ought" - which means errors in the "is" can make vast differences to the consequent "ought".

You're right; forgive my imprecision. But I doubt that people from the past could be said to be using the exactly the same function as us, nor even that I'm using the exact same function as you. It would just be too much coincidence.

Comment author: RobinZ 30 November 2009 09:00:05PM 2 points [-]

I think I see the difficulty - my language is phrased in terms of an absolute morality to which all historical systems are approximations of varying accuracy. Do I correctly infer that you reject that concept? If so, I believe it reasonable to assume that the remaining confusion is a matter of phrasing.

Comment author: Zack_M_Davis 30 November 2009 09:47:33PM 2 points [-]

Do I correctly infer that you reject that concept?

Yes.