So this is a FOOV? So now it looks like we don't disagree at all - what was I trying to convince you of, again?

I guess I'm really not sure. I'll have to think about it a while. What will probably happen is that next time I find myself debating with someone asserting there is no Framework of Objective Value, I will ask them about this case; if minds can create objective value by their value-ing. I will also ask them to clarify what they mean by objective value.

Truthfully, I've kind of forgotten what this issue I raised is about, probably for a few days or a week.