Since mixed racial background should make a difference in genes but makes only a small difference in the way our culture treats a person, if the IQ gap is the result of genetics we should see find that the those with mixed race backgrounds have higher IQs than those of mostly or exclusively African descent. This has been approximated with skin tone studies in the past and my recollection is that one study showed a slight correlation between lighter skin tone and IQ and the other study showed no correlation. There just hasn't been much research done and I doubt there will ever be much research (which is fine by me).

Oh good. Make it convenient for the guys running background searches.

Thanks for the link! I'm new here and really appreciate stuff to read up on since its mostly new to me. :)

Paul Graham's "What You Can't Say"

One of the people criticizing the letter accused the letter writer of privileging the hypothesis - that it's only because of historical contingency (i.e. racism) that someone would decide to carve reality between "African-Americans" and "whites" instead of, say, "people with brown eyes" and "people with blue eyes". (She didn't use that exact phrase, but it's what she meant.)

A few minor fallacies

Care to point them out?

Here's a bit more on the "privileging the hypothesis" bit, taken from here:

UPDATE: A lot of commenters have said that not addressing the substance of Stephanie’s email — the contention that it’s possible that black people are genetically inferior to white people — is a mistake, and weakens my point. So, why am I not addressing the idea that maybe black people are intellectually inferior, even if just to quickly debunk Stephanie’s argument? Because if I did that, the comments to this post would turn into a referendum on the genetics of intelligence, and there are always going to be a few very vocal people who have a lot invested in the falsity that black people are genetically inferior, and those people are not going to be convinced by any amount of evidence. It’s also impossible to prove, beyond any scientific doubt at all, that there is no genetic differentiation between racial and ethnic groups. That is, basically, how science works — it’s the reason that people who have some political or religious or personal investment in the idea that evolution is a crock will fall back on the “well evolution is only a theory!” line. Yes, it is “only” a theory, but it’s a theory that has a whole mountain of evidence behind it; and it’s called a theory because scientists are awfully hedgy, for good reason, about calling anything The Absolute Proven Truth. I’ll quote commenter MJ, who makes this point well:

One hears this kind of statement often from advocates of quasi-racist positions. “Oh, of course I could be convinced of perfect equality, if only someone could show me a study the proves that no differences exist!” It’s an extremely disingenuous argument and reflects a fundamental (deliberate?) misunderstanding about statistics.

No study can ever “prove” that no difference between two groups exists—a study can only fail to detect a difference of a certain size with a certain confidence level. Any experiment with enough statistical power will be able to find differences between any two groups, even two flasks of genetically identical bacteria, if you try hard enough.

My point is that asking for a study that demonstrates equality may sound reasonable, but is in fact just a rhetorical technique that can never be satisfied and serves as a shield for racist ideas.

Intelligence, too, is impossible to separate from environment and socialization, again making it impossible for anyone to say with absolute certainty that there is absolutely no biological or genetic difference at all ever between racial and ethnic groups. Intelligence is also incredibly difficult to accurately measure. But for all intents and purposes, the evidence is pretty clear that there aren’t discernible genetic differences when it comes to intelligence. But it’s always possible to make the argument that “We haven’t proven that there are no differences.” That argument tells you a lot more about the person making it than it does about any scientific fact.

I take people who argue that maybe there are race-based genetic differences that determine intelligence about as seriously as I take people who argue that maybe God did create the earth in 7 days with all humans and animals in the exact same form as we find them today. And you know, opening up a free-for-all discussion about race-based genetic difference will be about as fruitful as opening up a discussion about Creationism vs. Evolution. Discussing why Creationists are wrong and trying to convince anyone to switch “sides” in that debate (if you can even call it that) is pointless; if you really feel the need to repeat, “But evolution is just a theory and it doesn’t explain everything, so Creationism can’t be totally ruled out”, then you have some personal or religious or political or cultural investment in that idea, which won’t be toppled by evidence or rationality. Similarly, if you feel the need to repeat, “But it can’t be totally ruled out that there may be genetic differences between the races which make black people intellectually inferior,” you have some personal or political or cultural investment in that idea, which probably won’t be toppled by evidence or rationality. There is no “winning” in this debate.

And the greater danger of even opening up the debate is that, unlike creationism vs. evolution, the question of “are some people genetically inferior to others?” has been used in the service of injustice great and small. Even if we put aside the point that the genetics question has been used to justify slavery, mass sterilization, genocide, incarceration and violence — not a small point to put aside, certainly — the fact remains that the continued asking such an absurd, disproven question does harm. I can understand, for people who are not in the group that has been deemed potentially genetically inferior, that just raising the issue may not feel harmful. But for the people who are in that group? Who know the history? Who are routinely treated to questions like this under the guise of “I’m only asking the question!” but who know quite well that “only asking the question” is, itself, a way of suggesting that the answer to the question just might be yes? Who, by having to respond to the question over and over are basically being told, “You may just not be as intelligent as white people, genetically; you, as you were born, are just less”? It is harmful. It is part of a generations-long continuum of harm. It is a kind of psychological warfare that white people have waged on people of color and other less “fit” populations for centuries, which has augmented, supported and justified physical warfare, slavery, colonialism and genocide.

So no, I am not going to open up a discussion as to why Stephanie Grace’s suggestion that black people may be genetically intellectually inferior to white people is wrong. The asking of the question, and taking the question seriously, suggests that the answer just might be yes, no matter how many times the evidence points in the opposite direction. That does real harm to members of our community; it has done real harm historically to huge numbers of people, and will continue to do real harm in the future. There are many, many places on the internet where you all can talk about this to your heart’s content. I feel no obligation to provide a forum for such a pointless, hateful and harmful debate.

As the prior threadmakes clear, distinguishing between genetic and environmental causes of intelligence is immensely complicated -- especially given the confusion over what intelligence is.

However, it is well known that people don't like being told that they're statistically less likely to be intelligent. There are actually a fair number of studies showing that promoting stereotypes can actually reduce test scores. This is called "Stereotype Threat". While there is a recent meta-study which claims that the effect is an artifact of publication bias, that study had not been published when Grace wrote her email.

Grace (a) has no new data, and (b) has no new arguments. When she makes the claim that the search for evidence that the race-iq correlation is not genetic has been "unsuccessful", she hurts people. But she does not, in return, contribute anything at all to the discourse.

She cannot even claim the virtue of curiosity -- note that her open-mindedness extends to the idea that African Americans might be as smart as whites, but not to the idea that they might be smarter.

Someone whose grasp of evidence is that weak, should not be working in the law.

Should someone who callously performs any act which she knows or should know will cause harm to people without any offsetting benefit, should probably be publicly shamed.

I share your concern. Literal hate campaigns seem unlikely to me, but such opinions probably do repulse some people, and make it considerably easier for us to lose credibility in some circles, that we might (or might not) care about. On the other hand, we pretty strongly want rationalists to be able to discuss, and if necessary slay, sacred cows, for which purpose leading by example might be really valuable.

This is the best exposition I have seen so far of why I believe strongly that you are very wrong.

On a Bus in Kiev

I remember very little about my childhood in the Soviet Union; I was only seven when I left. But one memory I have is being on a bus with one of my parents, and asking something about a conversation we had had at home, in which Stalin and possibly Lenin were mentioned as examples of dictators. My parent took me off the bus at the next stop, even though it wasn’t the place we were originally going.

Please read the whole thing and remember that this is where the road inevitably leads.

Perhaps there should be a "secret underground members only" section where we can discuss these things?

Dinnertime conversations between regular, even educated people do not contain probabilistic causal analyses. In the email Grace claimed something was a live possibility and gave some reasons why. Her argument was not of the quality we expect comments to have here at Less Wrong. And frankly, she does sound kind of annoying.

But that all strikes me as irrelevant compared to being made into a news story and attacked on all sides, by her dean, her classmates and dozens of anonymous bloggers. By the standards of normal, loose social conversation she did nothing deserving of this reaction.

I feel a chilling effect and I've only ever argued against the genetic hypothesis. Frankly, you should too since in your comment you quite clearly imply that you don't know for sure there is no genetic component. My take from the reaction to the email is that the only socially acceptable response to encountering the hypothesis is to shout "RACIST! RACIST!" at the top of your lungs. If you think we'd be spared because we're more deliberate and careful when considering the hypothesis you're kidding yourself.

I don't know if the email you quoted (thanks for that, BTW, it's a treat to have access to a primary source without needing to chase it down) is racist, but it does sound very ignorant to me. It makes unwarranted inferential leaps, e.g. from "skin and hair color are definitely genetic" to "some part of intelligence is genetic", omitting the very different length of developmental chains leading from genes to pigmentation on the one hand, and intelligence on the other.

Let's be careful here. The letter does not assert baldly that "some part of intelligence is genetic". Rather, the letter asserts that some evidence "suggests to me that some part of intelligence is genetic".

Furthermore, that particular inferential leap does not begin with the observation that "skin and hair color are definitely genetic". Rather, the inferential leap begins with the claim that "Women tend to perform less well in math due at least in part to prenatal levels of testosterone, which also account for variations in mathematics performance within genders." Therefore, at least with regards to that particular inference, it is not fair to criticize the author for "omitting the very different length of developmental chains leading from genes to pigmentation on the one hand, and intelligence on the other."

[ETA: Of course, the inference that the author did make is itself open to criticism, just not the criticism that you made.]

I say all this as someone who considers Occam to be pretty firmly on the side of nongenetic explanations for the racial IQ gaps. But no progress in these kinds of discussions is possible without assiduous effort to avoid misrepresenting the other side's reasoning.

I completely agree with each of these points. Thank you!

I think when arguing about really controversial things that don't fit your tribe's beliefs via email or online means its best to only use them to send sources and citations. Avoid comments, any comments whatsoever, perhaps even quotes or Galileo forbid boldening anything but the title.
Encourage people involved in the debate to do the same.

Keep any controversial conclusions gleaned from the data or endorsals of any paper from the electronic record.Then when you are private tell them, did you manage to read the Someguyson study I sent you in email 6#? When you've exausted the mailed links talk switch to gossip or the weather.

If the mail was leaked and they don't have you on record for saying anything forbidden except just mailing around sources, how exactly will they tar and feather you?

I can say, this mode of conversation is actually quite stimulating since I've engaged in it before but I've only tested it for noncontraversial and complex subjects. It lets you catch up on what starting points he is coming from as well as gives you time to cool off in heated arguments. It is something however that drags on for weeks so not really appropirate with strangers.