Blueberry comments on Open Thread: July 2010, Part 2 - Less Wrong

6 Post author: Alicorn 09 July 2010 06:54AM

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Comment author: Blueberry 09 July 2010 04:12:52PM 3 points [-]

The fallacy here is thinking there's a difference between the way the ideal gas laws emerge from particle physics, and the way intelligence emerges from neurons and neurotransmitters. I've only heard "emergent" used in the following way:

A system X has emergent behavior if we have heuristics for both a low-level description and a high-level description, and the high-level description is not easily predictable from the low-level description

For instance, gliders moving across the screen diagonally is emergent in Conway's Life.

The "easily predictable" part is what makes emergence in the map, not the territory.

Comment author: orthonormal 09 July 2010 08:55:14PM 0 points [-]

Er, did you read the grandparent comment?

Comment author: Blueberry 09 July 2010 09:01:13PM *  2 points [-]

Yes. My point was that emergence isn't about what we know how to derive from lower-level descriptions, it's about what we can easily see and predict from lower-level descriptions. Like Roko, I want my definition of emergence to include the ideal gas laws (and I haven't heard the word used to exclude them).

Also see this comment.