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NancyLebovitz comments on Open Thread: July 2010, Part 2 - Less Wrong
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I'm beginning to see what you're up against.
I hope other folks will chime in if they disagree with me, but I'd say that "Are you proud of yourself?" is always an attack, and specifically a parent-to-child sort of attack at that.
If you believe it's likely that an honest answer to a question is likely to leave the person answering it feeling really bad, then the question is an attack. At the same time, I think you're telling the truth when you say you're perplexed that it was taken as a loaded question.
I've got some guesses about what's going on with you, but it's getting into pretty personal territory. Let me know if you're interested, and if so, whether you'd prefer a public post or a private message.
Agree, but Silas's actual question was
which could be an honest inquiry.
You're right about the quote.
However, I think asking people if they're proud of what they've done when you've made it clear you don't approve of it and they haven't shown signs of pride is still an attack, though a milder one.
Okay, fair point -- I did expect that Rain would report a "not proud", though did not regard it as a sort of parent-to-child attack (how would I know?).
It's just that some people seem to be so cold and calculating that I'm left wondering if there's any empathic similarity at all -- if they get the same feelings I do on being cruel, so I have to really "fall back a rank" (as I call it), and end up posing such questions.
(Yes, I know that sounds really cheesy and self-serving too, but ...)
I trust you're aware that this is an ironic complaint coming from someone who attributes his social problems to an autism-spectrum disorder?
In any event, I follow discussions like this with morbid fascination, because I sympathize and empathize with both you and your interlocutors. I think you make some really good points that need to be heard, but at the same time I completely understand the criticisms of your tone and manner. On the other hand, I find myself not infrequently tempted to speak in a similar tone, and it often takes a good deal of willpower on my part to avoid doing so; but then again, I would also probably react very negatively, even to the point of bitter resentment, if someone spoke in such a tone to me.
I genuinely don't know where I stand on this, so I suppose have to incline towards the group consensus, as reflected by the voting patterns. (Which necessitates, of course, that I not vote myself, so as to avoid a sort of information cascade.)
I think that's a consequence of distance. It's easier to be a jerk to someone, deliberately or accidentally, when they seem like just a username on a forum; it's harder to recognize that a conversation has gone awry when it's all text; and it's harder to back down and apologize when there are third parties watching.
In online conversations, the emotional palette for most people seems to be: detached, amused, or angry. All other emotions are rare exceptions in online discourse - not because people don't feel them, but because text written by far-away people can't easily bring them out.
Looking through this thread, I see lots of comments (both by you and at you) which seem to make detachment impossible. No one's telling jokes, either, so the remaining option is anger.
AAAAAAAAGH! Rage rage hulksmash!
Well, in your case, you've actually vidchatted with me, seen the actual, breathing human on the other side, found me to be more sociable than you expected
... and still didn't feel any more inclined to clean up the misrepresentations you made of me that you were aware of :-(
I've gone back and edited the comment in question, and I apologize for not having done so earlier. (And, while this doesn't really justify my not having edited it earlier - the reason I didn't edit it then was that I still hadn't fully understood what happened. Revisiting it now, I noticed what I missed the last time around - namely, a full enumeration of the people who could've prevented the situation from blowing up in the first place, including myself.) I'm not sure whether linking to or summarizing that thread would be a net positive or negative, so I won't, but you can if you think making my edit visible is worth the chance that it derails the current conversation here.
Have you presented your thoughts on the mismatch between yourself and other people anywhere? I will happily delete my guess if it is not accurate.
I have a hard time knowing how to help if I don't know the problem.
Send me a PM if you have a diagnosis. I don't think I've made general remarks on the mismatch anywhere, though I have pointed out when people, like jimrandomh, knowingly perpetuate lies about me after being repeatedly corrected.