Louie comments on How to Save the World - Less Wrong

73 Post author: Louie 01 December 2010 05:17PM

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Comment author: Louie 01 December 2010 11:55:56PM *  2 points [-]

I think this was my way of saying that it makes sense as an instrumental rationality technique to afford people at least some positive level of respect (as opposed to negative respect levels, or overall disrespect) regardless of their current world saving position. I could say all that in the article, but it sounds mealy-mouthed that way.

So my advice is that if you're really a "respect-Bayesian" and you have to account for evidence (so you're duty bound to adjust downward), try not to update others' total respect value below zero over this. Or move your zero-floor down so that almost everyone has a positive value both a priori and in practice.

Comment author: Vladimir_Nesov 02 December 2010 12:59:36AM 2 points [-]

At this point, when you start discussing "positive/negative respect", I'd need to ask what that means in even more detail. What defines the "zero point", why would you have a total order ("levels"), why is this an interesting concept. Again, I see the affect, the surface promise of meaning, but not any straightforward way of discerning what's actually meant.

(I agree that with any reasonable guesses at the concepts, "respect" going into the "negative" because of not saving the world in the case of not being aware of the arguments is incorrect, but I don't appreciate the abundance of apparently arbitrary detail in your explanation.)

Comment author: FAWS 02 December 2010 01:20:44AM *  2 points [-]

At this point, when you start discussing "positive/negative respect", I'd need to ask what that means in even more detail. What defines the "zero point", why would you have a total order ("levels"), why is this an interesting concept. Again, I see the affect, the surface promise of meaning, but not any straightforward way of discerning what's actually meant.

One possible definition of a zero point would be signaling (or being perceived to signal) neither a raising nor a lowering of the status of the person in question. So the imperative could be reformulated as "don't make moves to lower other people's status in interactions with them".

Comment author: wedrifid 02 December 2010 01:34:05AM *  2 points [-]

One possible definition of a zero point would be signaling (or being perceived to signal) neither a raising nor a lowering of the status of the person in question.

(It isn't your imperative but...) High status people will often take that as disrespectful.

Comment author: FAWS 02 December 2010 01:51:44AM *  0 points [-]

I understand treating higher status people like you would treat equal status people as signaling a lowering of their status so I think that's already taken into account.

Comment author: wedrifid 02 December 2010 02:36:38AM *  3 points [-]

I understand treating higher status people like you would treat equal status people as signaling a lowering of their status so I think that's already taken into account.

Not necessarily. Status is transactional and dynamic. High status people (of a certain kind) demand a constant stream of 'status raising' behaviors in the same way governments demand taxes.

Comment author: wedrifid 02 December 2010 01:03:33AM *  1 point [-]

I would add that the advice would seem better replaced with "for the purpose of social signalling don't be a respect-Bayesian". Now it seems to be "bias your bayesian updating such that your posterior respect gives desirable signals".

(Although in the absence of the unpacking I can only infer.)